Garian

League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

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playing against him would be no different except now his powerful CC combo also does huge amounts of damage to you and he's still able to get tanky because of his ult

remember earlier when I said that every champion with a kit that makes them tanky for free but also enables huge damage is either overpowered but broken? what's the point of lol being a team game if it has characters that fulfill every meaningful part of a team by themselves?

also, I'm pretty sure that any character where your strategy is to just not go anywhere near them is zero fun to play against and severely limits effective and entertaining counterplay, which is why they nerfed alistar so hard in the first place

Now you're talking about balance though, and I'm talking about complexity & choice. If the problem is that AP Alistar is too tanky, then nerf his tankiness. Simple. It's a matter of adjusting numbers, not removing the build entirely. For example, they could have made his ult increase his armor/MR instead of % reduction. That way, armor pen and spell pen would still work well against him. Or they could have it scale more if you have more HP/armor/MR, so if you built him AP he would suffer in the tank department. There are many possibilities.

The point I'm making is about complexity. It does not make the game harder to learn for Alistar to be able to build AP. If you're new and encounter an AP Alistar you would still want to avoid him... it's not like he gains new abilities or a different playstyle.

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I don't really see the distinction here. Both Rocket Jumps and Combos changed the way Quake and Street Fighter played, in the sense that pretty much every player had to learn how to utilize those mechanics themselves, as well as figure out how to play against them. You are always free to draft champions that can push quickly as well, and I do think that if given a chance, the community could develop ways to play against it. Except now we won't know if that's possible, because Riot effectively removed it. Much like stealth and proxy Singed. I'm gonna say that the way it is right now (Towers start with additional armor which starts decaying after 4 minutes) is about as unintuitive to a new player as denying./QUOTE]

you're missing the point

a) to your example, in street fighter EVERYONE can combo. in league of legends a few characters can push towers quickly. inherently unequal

B) new players aren't going to be 'so confused' about not being able to push towers down at 4 minutes. because no new player is devising strategies to 2v1 top, deny them farm, and push an early tower.

c) creating an item also creates imbalance in other non 2v1 lanes, where the side that doesn't use it will get pushed faster. the only real way to balance it is to create characters that can fight against 2 characters solo before gold comes into play, which is also something that would clearly be unbalanced.

countermeasures against 2v1s:

1. clear waves before they get to tower, don't try to lasthit, stay safe and don't die (essentially get denied. both gold and probably exp too.)

2. switch lanes (takes time, will lose you tower, the first team to switch will be at the disadvantage regardless)

3. ...yeah that's pretty much it. and if you're not ranged have fun losing while doing nothing but standing under tower.

in dota, towers have longer range, it's easier to run away in lane because it's a bigger lane and nobody has exhaust/flash-ignite, characters have less early burst, and characters are allowed to have skillsets that would protect them from extra harass, or discourage it. warlock is a great example of a champion who can 2v1 pretty easily. you can't put a warlock into lol though because his kit is way better than anyone else's kit.

so essentially this is not a 'work-around'able issue. and if i were a new player and got 2v1ed in lane, and someone was just like 'yeah that's how it works, deal with it,' i'd never play again. nothing is fair about having a lane like that.

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Now you're talking about balance though, and I'm talking about complexity & choice. If the problem is that AP Alistar is too tanky, then nerf his tankiness. Simple. It's a matter of adjusting numbers, not removing the build entirely. For example, they could have made his ult increase his armor/MR instead of % reduction. That way, armor pen and spell pen would still work well against him.

but then his actual tank build suffers and now you've made it so you have alistar the okay nuke and alistar the okay tank instead of just alistar the good tank

Or they could have it scale more if you have more HP/armor/MR, so if you built him AP he would suffer in the tank department. There are many possibilities.

that'd be a pretty good idea if there weren't items that gave armor and magic resist in addition to ad or ap

so you make alistar's damage reduction scale off of his armor and mr and now it makes sense to build 'bruiser' alistar who murders everyone while staunchly refusing to give a fuck

The point I'm making is about complexity. It does not make the game harder to learn for Alistar to be able to build AP. If you're new and encounter an AP Alistar you would still want to avoid him...

yeah but then what happens when you want to actually go near your minions and farm/go near the tower to push/get close enough to do anything of value for your team

I repeat; if at any point the correct strategy for dealing with a champion is just not being near them at all, that champ's kit is broken

and perhaps more pertinently, I'm fairly certain the reason alistar is kind of sucky right now is because they realized that a homing knockback-to-knockup combo and/or an instant flash-to-knockup-to-knockback combo is super strong AND super easy to pull off, and they want to minimize his effectiveness because they much rather introduced characters with crowd control that's a lot more complex/difficult to pull off until they retroactively change the easymode older characters into something more interesting to play as

to be clear I don't think they nerfed AP alistar because that's not how they wanted him played; I think they nerfed ap alistar because they wanted his damage in general to take a hit because his kit is kind of ridiculous

EDIT:

I don't really see the distinction here. Both Rocket Jumps and Combos changed the way Quake and Street Fighter played, in the sense that pretty much every player had to learn how to utilize those mechanics themselves, as well as figure out how to play against them.

rocket jumps and combos can be utilized by all players and characters; the existence of these strategies does not actively undermine the rest of the game

You are always free to draft champions that can push quickly as well,

I think there's an important distinction between 'free to' and 'supposed to'

and I do think that if given a chance, the community could develop ways to play against it.

like what

Except now we won't know if that's possible, because Riot effectively removed it.

yeah but... who cares

why should riot let thousands of new players get stomped on by a strategy that appears to be unbeatable just so that maybe somebody can maybe come up with a way to counter it?

Much like stealth and proxy Singed.

stealth is just kind of an anti-fun mechanic (and I say this as a twitch main) and I can't really come up with any argument as to why it should be a thing

also I don't think they've actually done anything to proxy singed

I'm gonna say that the way it is right now (Towers start with additional armor which starts decaying after 4 minutes) is about as unintuitive to a new player as denying.

I agree with this, it's a band-aid fix, but -

Even if fast 2v1 pushes were deemed imbalanced, there are far more elegant solutions for nerfing it than effectively adding a hard limit on when it's okay to push down a tower, such as cheap items or summoner spells that clear minions faster or maybe temporarily power up a single tower.

this is why it's a band-aid fix - because all of the other more interesting solutions are probably going to take more time

and if given the choice between just leaving it be and letting the entire metagame start to revolve around a strategy that's uninteresting and unfun to most players while you develop a solution OR applying a band-aid to curb the worst of it (you can still push a tower down pretty fuckin' quick), why in the world would you pick the former

Edited by Bleck

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crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight crab battle crab fight

edit: bleck, you're right, though. hydra is too darn good even for people who forget the active. same reason runon's is too good on characters whose autos do on-hit effects, like varus, kayle builds, and twitch. but runon's doesn't give you crazy lifesteal AND some tank AND an activatable, it's just good AS.

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Hurricane is a fairly bad item overall, IMO. I play a lot of ADC and I don't know of any ranged carry that can make use of it. Assuming you are against even marginally competent players (Bronze III+), they understand that you have to kill the ADC in teamfights. Thus, as an ADC, you cannot be wading into the middle of things and instead have to stay at the edge of the fight to avoid the many gap-closers and ranged stuns in the game (flash Malphite ult, Alistar, any toss/throw, J4, Akali or any assassin, etc.) However Hurricane's range is insanely short (375), meaning to make use of it, you have to be far too close to anyone. It's not practical and you WILL get yourself killed trying to use it.

The frustrating thing is that is a fun, interesting item conceptually, it just sucks in practice. If I were to rebalance it I would extend the range to your autoattack range but tweak the numbers (probably nerf the built-in stats) and make it an activated item for a few seconds.

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However Hurricane's range is insanely short (375)

this is a misnomer; this range refers to the radius around your main target where other targets can successfully be considered additional targets

eg. if twitch with runaan's and his ult activated has a target directly ahead of him at exactly 850 range and then two more targets to his left and right at 375 range, he won't hit the additional targets

but if the targets are standing within 375 range of the first main target, then he will hit the additional targets

I tested this out myself early on because the description is fairly confusing, but the effective range is a lot more effective than it lets on

that all being said, though, twitch really is the only marksman who can maybe make effective use of it, and even then it's at the expense of his late-game single target damage, because the high attack speed doesn't statistically make up for the lack of attack damage and/or critical change

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rocket jumps and combos can be utilized by all players and characters; the existence of these strategies does not actively undermine the rest of the game

Rocket jumps and combos are 'overpowered'. You could easily argue that they *do* undermine the rest of the game. They change the way the game is played, and every new player will have to learn how to utilize them and play against them. Especially with rocket jumping, that isn't something that every player has access to, only the one that happens to have picked up the rocket launcher.

like what

I don't know enough about LoL mechanics to theorycraft counters , but LoL has a vibrant global competitive scene. Competitive players would likely devise ways to counter it. Ultimately, though, does it really affect the game negatively if you have a pre-5 minute tower trade, and people grouping up for fast pushes? Isn't the laning phase generally accepted to be the most boring part of the game?

yeah but... who cares

why should riot let thousands of new players get stomped on by a strategy that appears to be unbeatable just so that maybe somebody can maybe come up with a way to counter it?

This guy cares, and I'm sure that sentiment exists among many competitive players as well. You could just as easily say "Why should Capcom let thousands of new players get stomped by combos."

The reason is that if a mechanic or strategy is balanced at the pro level, new players can always look 'upwards' to learn how to counter it. This is the entire concept behind so called pubstompers, i.e. champions that rely on mechanics that are easier to counter as your opponents go up in skill. Why should a company cater balance changes to people that have spent only a minute amount of time playing the game compared to the pro players, when the new players could simply adapt and learn how to play the game?

stealth is just kind of an anti-fun mechanic (and I say this as a twitch main) and I can't really come up with any argument as to why it should be a thing

also I don't think they've actually done anything to proxy singed

Yeah, I don't really buy into the whole Riot buzzwords thing. Dying and losing the game are 'anti-fun' too, should we remove those from the game as well?

Stealth adds variety to the game, it opens up the map by letting you walk past sight wards and it forces specific counterplays by the enemy team. It often gets criticized as a binary mechanic (if it gets countered, you lose, if it doesn't get countered, you win), but really it all depends on how you balance out detection and the stealth mechanics themselves.

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Rocket jumps and combos are 'overpowered'. You could easily argue that they *do* undermine the rest of the game. They change the way the game is played, and every new player will have to learn how to utilize them and play against them. Especially with rocket jumping, that isn't something that every player has access to, only the one that happens to have picked up the rocket launcher.

yeah but every player can get the rocket launcher; it's not like 'woops you didn't get the rocket launcher from the getgo so now you can't have it for the next forty minutes and you're pretty much guaranteed to lose'

I don't know enough about LoL mechanics to theorycraft counters

burden of proof is on you, here, bub; you can't just say that somebody would do it and then expect an entire design/balance philosophy to revolve around that

also important is the idea that the extreme majority of players are not competitive players, and dealing with what negatively affects casual players is inherently more important than letting 1% of the playerbase have their fun

Ultimately, though, does it really affect the game negatively if you have a pre-5 minute tower trade, and people grouping up for fast pushes? Isn't the laning phase generally accepted to be the most boring part of the game?

the last time I argued with you about the laning phase you implied that last-hitting and farming were crucial elements to these kinds of games and to argue that they could survive without them was folly

I believe that a moba could be designed from the ground up to not have a focus on farming and last hitting, but at this point it's an important part of lol for the majority of the characters and the metagame in general and having the ability to remove a character's ability to safely exist in a lane is kind of an extreme advantage to have

This guy cares,

one guy explaining how some competitive teams arguably countered a thing doesn't justify having an extreme and obtuse strategy that will consistently confound any player that's less skilled than the pro-est of the pro

and I'm sure that sentiment exists among many competitive players as well. You could just as easily say "Why should Capcom let thousands of new players get stomped by combos."

I don't know why this continues to need to be repeated, but combos are not really comparable in this situation, because combos are a) something that every player and every character has access to at all times B) something that the entire game is structured around

also important to consider is that fighting game matches last a few minutes or less; you can get 100% combo'd and lose a match immediately and be able to bounce back into another match where you immediately have the chance to win

whereas in lol oh did top tower get pushed down three minutes into the game I hope you enjoy either surrendering at 20 or dealing with your loss for the next 37 minutes

oh and you can't leave games either so you know maybe if riot is going to force people to stay in games (which is arguably a good idea and by arguably in this context I mean of course it fucking is) then maybe their top priority should be minimizing the impact or effectiveness of strategies that involve completely reducing your opponent's chances of winning within the first quarter or less of a game

The reason is that if a mechanic or strategy is balanced at the pro level, new players can always look 'upwards' to learn how to counter it.

see my earlier posts about how expecting your players to do something other than playing the game to learn how to play it is inherently bad design

you can learn combos in training mode and you can load up a map in quake and learn how to rocket jump; but if you're playing lol or dota and the only way you can possibly be expected to enjoy the game is to spend more time than you'd be playing studying other players then yeah surprise 99% of the populace is just gonna find some other game to play

and unfortunately since this is a day and age where video games no longer have to necessarily be designed to primarily be enjoyed by sperglords I don't really think riot is unreasonable for going out of their way to pander to people who aren't socially incapable of understanding that hey, some people might want to actually enjoy playing video games

This is the entire concept behind so called pubstompers, i.e. champions that rely on mechanics that are easier to counter as your opponents go up in skill. Why should a company cater balance changes to people that have spent only a minute amount of time playing the game compared to the pro players, when the new players could simply adapt and learn how to play the game?

the simple answer is that maybe because that company wants to make money?

the slightly more complex answer (which is still less relevant than the simple answer) is that you can't reasonably assume that 'time invested' is actually a meaningful measure of how important a player is to the game, nor is it reasonable to just assume that every single possible strategy can definitely be countered and to leave the metagame alone long enough to see; at that point you're experimenting at the expense of the people who you want to play your game, which is gonna net you a very small and loyal group of neckbeards as opposed to a very large group of players who gosh I don't know maybe don't want to have their entire lives revolve around playing lol but maybe still want to enjoy it

I guess what you're trying to say here is that these casual nubs are selfish to want the game to revolve around them having a good time and what riot should instead be doing is maximizing the enjoyment of a much smaller group of people at the expense of everyone else which I guess is somehow magically not selfish at all

Yeah, I don't really buy into the whole Riot buzzwords thing. Dying and losing the game are 'anti-fun' too, should we remove those from the game as well?

maybe you don't understand what anti-fun means because you're reading too much into the name; it doesn't refer to any mechanic that is inherently not a fun thing to happen, but rather any mechanic that actively minimizes the amount of fun that a player can have whilst playing the game

example; dying is not fun, but is not anti-fun

getting stunlocked out of fucking nowhere by Old Evelynn and dying immediately because you didn't start the game with a vision ward because doing that would have made you slow and weak and lost you the lane regardless is anti-fun, because what the fuck else are you supposed to do

and no before you ask, implying that 'people should just get better' in whatever assholish way does not magically render the concept of anti-fun invalid, it just makes you sound like a dick

Stealth adds variety to the game, it opens up the map by letting you walk past sight wards and it forces specific counterplays by the enemy team. It often gets criticized as a binary mechanic (if it gets countered, you lose, if it doesn't get countered, you win), but really it all depends on how you balance out detection and the stealth mechanics themselves.

I like how you argued against a concept by calling it a buzzword and then proceeded to argue that something is good because Variety

anyways stealth is a bad mechanic if it enables plays where suddenly your opponent is dealing with you and it's not possible for them to humanly react to it (evelynn stun and now I'm dead, oh shit twitch is shooting me from a mile away and I'm dead, shaco stabbed me in the butt and now I'm dead, etc.) and the only way to counter it are items that are so costly that to buy one in the early game (when stealth is most effective) is in itself going to lose your lane because of lack of other stats (being able to maybe see evelynn coming isn't going to make up for your lack of movespeed/regen/damage/etc.)

I agree that stealth can be designed in a way that enables it to be balanced and more interesting (then maybe they could do another twitch remake that isn't fucking shitty), but the fact of the matter was that of all of the characters who had stealth central to their kits were kind of slowly wrecking the game for anyone who wasn't 2900 elo Double Challenger Championship Michael Jordan level player, so they made a bunch of changes so that people wouldn't quit the game because they hated Shaco so much (which is literally what I almost did)

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It makes sense to balance to the masses when this is your reality: http://i.imgur.com/NpCj0iY.png

That is to say that the large majority of the player base is bronze and silver aka Bad At The Game™. It makes perfect sense to balance to them. This isn't including non-ranked players who logically fall into bronze/silver because most people with the skill to be in the top 10% in a game like this naturally make their way there.

However in the example of tower armor, it made the situation worse for the E-Sports scene that Riot is working very hard to cultivate in that it had the opposite effect and made 2v1 situations even worse for the solo laner. Worse for the player but better for the viewership as this means the 3v1 tower dives are much more frequent and makes for exciting play. Riot lucked out in this regard in that it was intended to extend laning phase but instead turned it into diving phase.

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place in balancing this game. I think that making any change was a mistake with Worlds coming up and the status of the elite being what's most important to their upcoming revenue.

Sidenotes:

Hurricane is decent on Varus but is ultimately just a shitty item. It's a waste of money on Twitch because his ult already gives him massive AoE and it's an inefficient form of redundancy.

Marksman is a dumb term. That should be a term to anyone with a skill shot. Ranged AD Carry is much more descriptive which is why it's what everyone including Riot's main event, LCS, uses.

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Runaan's is crap unless you're playing AP Varus. Spread the Blight and pop it all with your ult. 1000 damage + 60% of all targets' health. Beautiful.

Or Kayle, that's actually legit.

Edited by Neblix

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I am pretty much at the bottom of the bottom of the bottom of Bronze V, with the MMR equivalent of probably <800. I am 100% certain that I don't "belong" there, in the sense that I'm sure I am significantly better than 90% of the people I get into games with. (I am generally not a cocky person; I don't say that lightly.)

When I solo queue, this is what I observe:

* People do not automatically understand that they are supposed to leash. You can ask them, but even then, they don't always comply.

* The ADCs need to be told to last hit, rather than constantly push all the time. Again, you can instruct them, but they often will just cuss back at you and complain, no matter how nicely you try to explain it to them.

* People are prone to doing insanely stupid things, like chasing an enemy champ way too far into the jungle with no wards, etc. The crazy thing is, this sometimes actually pays off, due to the stupidity of the opposite team.

* People will claim roles out of the pick order, and insist that they MUST play ADC or MUST play Master Yi top because it is the *only thing they know how to do*. (Then, when they get their way and get the one role they're "good" at, proceed to feed.)

* People frequently leave in the middle of the game. Or in the beginning.

* Behavior is very immature. The in-team chat feels like I'm talking to a bunch of 10 year olds who have just discovered the internet and the fact that they can say anything they want to without their parents finding out. People are very quick to cuss the team out, complain about everybody else while feeding the other team, and it's very hard to get a dymnamic of teamwork.

* People do not know how to ward.

In contrast, I play 4 roles decently well, and there's only one role I would ask not to have to do (top). I have good map awareness. I have decent CS, and understand last hitting. I am very good with ward coverage, even when the ADC I'm supporting whines and complains I haven't placed a single ward down. I am very team-oriented and try hard to be positive and encouraging, and get everyone to work together, even when the other teammates are already calling everybody fags. I have played enough ranked games that my rank cannot really be called a fluke. I think I've played ~50 ranked games this season. So this is where League of Legends has decided I belong.

I'm not really sure what I have done to deserve this. Outside of solo queue, I am used to playing with a group of people who are silvers and golds. The gameplay is a lot different than being in cardboard 5. The one thing I could say that I still haven't mastered is how to take control of the game and completely dominate when the rest of your teammates clearly don't know what they're doing. This is due to having gotten used to playing with people who are on average better than me.

I would also like to say that I have observed some people in silver that also seem to lack basic skills (though not as badly as the bronze 5 randoms). Things like ADCs not last hitting at all, people rushing into fights again and again after losing several times and being down 5 kills, tanks going off and doing their own thing, never being present for a single teamfight, and singlehandedly losing their team the game.

So from this, the conclusions I have drawn are:

* I will not put much meaning into your rank in bronze or silver. I would if you were Gold or Platinum. But I no longer think that being in silver entails being better than a bronze player, or vice versa. I would judge based on your playing and not make any assumptions. To be fair, on the average, I would agree that silver players are better than bronzes, or bronze 1s are better than bronze 5s. However, I don't think that the rank is a good definite indicator of your skill.

* I will not solo queue in ranked. There used to be a time when I thought it might be neat to climb in the ranks to get into silver. I no longer care about that, which is related to the last point I just made. But moreover, those games are not enjoyable. At all. I feel like I am babysitting a bunch of whiney bratty kids when I solo queue ranked. Even more frustrating is that I feel that my actions and skill have less of a bearing on the outcome, and what it really comes down to is which team gets the leaver, or the last pick who insisted on playing ADC when ADC has already been taken. (Although, why has that been my team 5 times to 1?) I would only be willing to play ranked duo queue with somebody in silver, or teams. (Duo partner must be silver in order to bring up the average skill level of the game; bronze 4 partner would just be more of the same.)

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that's the gist of it, diotrans

probably 90-95% of players in silver and bronze (me included) deserve to be there. They're under-average players who may or may not have mechanics down, have little to no map awareness, etc. If you want to climb out, pick the FOTM adc, get really good at it, and you will slowly claw your way up. Otherwise, just play normals. Teams are usually more balanced from my experience, and people are more willing to have fun.

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* I will not put much meaning into your rank in bronze or silver. I would if you were Gold or Platinum. But I no longer think that being in silver entails being better than a bronze player, or vice versa.

This is what I'm saying. Bronze and Silver are both equal in terms of skill in my experience.

Gold and Platinum are close, too, but there is a definite striation in people in Gold who belong in Platinum but are stuck in higher Gold cause it's really hard to get out and those who belong in Silver.

Also:

A buddy of mine broke her mouse and had to set up her 360 controller as a replacement. Then me and my group had the crazy idea to set up the controllers for LoL. Will probably have multiple streams going of the main event once we get there.

As for the channel I don't play much LoL anymore so I don't actually stream/record much but maybe if I get free time again I'll put more content.

And rewatching the one video I have of a ranked Gold III game there's a proxy Singed who loses for their team. How appropriate.

that's the gist of it, diotrans

probably 90-95% of players in silver and bronze (me included) deserve to be there. They're under-average players who may or may not have mechanics down, have little to no map awareness, etc. If you want to climb out, pick the FOTM adc, get really good at it, and you will slowly claw your way up. Otherwise, just play normals. Teams are usually more balanced from my experience, and people are more willing to have fun.

Correction: They ARE the average. They're the majority so that even makes half of them better than average. It's just that the bar is set super low.

Also normals make slight use of your ranked MMR (ELO) to determine your opponents to keep normals interesting. The main difference is mindset and not being shitlords cause for whatever reason ranked does that to people.

Edited by eternal Zero

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Gold V is pretty abysmal too. Gold III and up is where you starting have some sort of credibility.

As far as rank distributon, Bronze and Silver encompass the bottom 85% of League players. The next 15% are Gold, Platinum, Diamond, and Challenger.

The one thing I could say that I still haven't mastered is how to take control of the game and completely dominate when the rest of your teammates clearly don't know what they're doing. This is due to having gotten used to playing with

people who are on average better than me

Your ability to do this will depend on your champion choice. What kind of champions (not roles, CHAMPIONS) do you play in Ranked?

(Duo partner must be silver in order to bring up the average skill level of the game; bronze 4 partner would just be more of the same.)

Inaccurate. Being in a duo by itself raises your matchmaking rating considerably. I have unfortunately had Bronze II people on my teams as the result of them duo queueing. It was pretty un-fun, considering it was in my S4 -> S3 promo.

Edited by Neblix

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Based on the chart Zero posted, it's more like Bronze = bottom 66% (I ran the numbers). So, if you are in Silver V, you are ranked higher than 66% of LoL players. Silver I is the 92nd percentile. Gold III would be 97th percentile.

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Based on the chart Zero posted, it's more like Bronze = bottom 66% (I ran the numbers). So, if you are in Silver V, you are ranked higher than 66% of LoL players. Silver I is the 92nd percentile. Gold III would be 97th percentile.

I think that the funniest/saddest thing about this is that 97th percentile still isn't good enough for me because I know I belong up higher if my younger brother who plays camera locked (and is good don't get me wrong, but I do outplay him regularly) is Plat 4. He just has all the free time to actually play games cause undergrad is free time central.

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http://i.imgur.com/Bqln4yy.png********

This one says otherwise, but it could be old.

And needless to say, high ranking is more a measure of free time. The standard highest rank to be placed is Silver I (win all 10 placements) and to get a higher rank, you do have to jump through all the promotion and LP hoops bullshit, and that requires having to play about 6-7 games per division if you're a god.

Edited by Neblix

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Your image has a date on it. It's older than the one I posted. The data on there is more extreme and further reinforces my point. I don't see this supposed "otherwise" you're trying to convey.

More time means truer placement relative to your skill potential. Time spent does not equate to an increase in rank if you don't have the skill/luck to back it. Otherwise, everyone would be in higher leagues as you can't drop down whole leagues.

I can't speak for how this has shifted from month to month since I haven't looked up data for it but in general it's a good general assumption to think that Gold V and up means top 10% with the V division in each league to hold some percentage of players that probably don't belong there but can't drop back down to what I feel is the weakest part of the league/division system.

Edited by eternal Zero

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Your image has a date on it. It's older than the one I posted. The data on there is more extreme and further reinforces my point. I don't see this supposed "otherwise" you're trying to convey.

More time means truer placement relative to your skill potential. Time spent does not equate to an increase in rank if you don't have the skill/luck to back it. Otherwise, everyone would be in higher leagues as you can't drop down whole leagues.

yeah this is basically spot on

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tl;dr: I'm stuck in Bronze V because other people suck but say they're awesome (but I'm totally not doing that right now)

See: previous post. Spend more time (if you haven't already) and come to terms with the reality of your skill in the genre or get out of Bronze V by your own merit. Good luck.

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And needless to say, high ranking is more a measure of free time.

This so much. I do occasionally find myself enjoying LoL (and DotA 2), but the learning cliff is just brutal. And for someone with a lot less free time than when he was 14, I really prefer NOT to nosedive 100% into a game where being good demands memorizing the hazards & heels of a hundred foes. Even if the douchey atmosphere has toned down. If you're gonna make a game that complex, could I get at least a memorable plotline to go along?

But LoL is fun for the occasional romp, as long as I don't entertain becoming anywhere near "pro".

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