Never rest Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi all. Is fl studio good for composing orchestral music? I've being playing around with it but mostly to assist myself in learning basic harmony (I'm a complete music illiterate), and I feel the grand piano sounds very mechanical unlike when real humans play. I'm not a millionaire so I'm not going to spend $10,000 on some software I heard that's the definitive DAW for orchestral music. So if FL studio is no good then can someone recommend me a similar priced alternative? Also does anyone know any good organ and choir plugins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid wind Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 FL studio is capable for orchestral music but you'll have to look elsewhere for your samples, most of them that come with FL or that IL sells aren't very good. EWQLSO is the de facto recommendation of most people from what I've seen, GPO and VSL also being popular. If you're really on a budget you could even go for free samples but the results obviously won't be as good. I've been working on a setup recently cobbled together from those templates and this library but it's not totally free since I use DW instead of sfz where possible... Also in addition to sample quality, sequenced piano won't sound natural unless you put a lot of effort into it, humans don't play perfectly with the same velocity on every hit. Even then you tend to get better results actually playing it, a MIDI controller is a good investment. If you're "music illiterate" it's a good idea anyway since learning piano will teach you a lot of theory as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi all. Is fl studio good for composing orchestral music? I've being playing around with it but mostly to assist myself in learning basic harmony (I'm a complete music illiterate), and I feel the grand piano sounds very mechanical unlike when real humans play.I'm not a millionaire so I'm not going to spend $10,000 on some software I heard that's the definitive DAW for orchestral music. So if FL studio is no good then can someone recommend me a similar priced alternative? Also does anyone know any good organ and choir plugins? It's not about the tools, it's how you use them. There are subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) changes to note velocity and timing when humans play. If you don't write/record these, you won't have them. Taking sequenced notes and making them sound performed is called humanization. You'll hear that term a lot around here. FL can do orchestral music about as well as any other DAW. It's all about using it right. For example, sustained notes are irl never sustained at the same level, they'll swell and diminish to follow the dynamics of the arrangement. This is typically done by using a midi control change messages to tell how loud a sustain should change over time. It's typically done with cc11, aka expression, which should be right there with pitch bend, modulation, and other ccs. There's also the matter of sounds - and these can get expensive. You can get some dated orchestral sound libraries fairly cheap tho, so unless you want hyper-realism, you can get some nice sounding stuff by just looking for sales on older tools, or even free stuff. This is why most newbs do electronic music - synth tracks don't require nearly the same attention to performance to sound decent. As a "complete music illiterate", you will have trouble doing orchestral no matter how you approach it. You should be aware of that. Don't let it stop you, just expect to have to spend the first couple of years learning and usually doing things wrong before doing them right. TL;DR: FL will do just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm still waiting to find out how you can do pitch bend in the same category as CC#11 and Modulation. Seriously, I could get a lot done if I could just figure out how to automate that the same as the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Only because it receives no love here at OCR I have to say give Sonar a shot. If you are on a budget the tools and synths it comes bundled with are phenominal and plenty flexible. For my producer edition of Sonar 8 (yea it was a hit financially but well worth it) I got Full versions of Rapture, Dimension Pro and ZETA, an auto tuning tool(v-vocal), Sonitus FX, Guitar Rig LE, and some higher end EQ's, Compressor's and Reverb's that I am toying around with, and that's not the entire package either! I haven't done a comparison with XL just yet, but I'm sure the package deal stays more or less the same. Just wanted to bring this up before another jumps on the Fruity Loops bandwagon. Well, it's not really a bandwagon anymore. More like an angry brainless torch wielding mob. Edit: looks like Sonar 8 might be pretty tough to find. Here is a link to XL if you want to check it out. http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/X1-Producer/Default.aspx If you're looking to do orchestral music, dimension pro has some decent sounding strings, percussion, brass and woodwinds but they are clearly faked. Chances are you are going to need something like East West's Symphonic Orchestra which comes in around $500+ depending on the version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 For $10,000 dollars, you could hire an Eastern European Orchestra to record about 5 minutes of music for you. Just saying... No DAW is going to make you a master of orchestra music out of the box. My suggestion is to get a DAW that works well for you (make certain it supports VST), and then get a nice all in one solution like EWQL Symphonic Orchestra. The nice thing about East West's stuff is that they give 50% discounts to Students. So, if you're a student, just starting out, well, there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSO Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I recommend Presonus' Studio One 2 Producer($200) and for decent orchestra sounds, Garritan Personal Orchestra(VST Expansion)($150) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Digital Performer is going to be PC compatible starting with version 8 later this year. It's been a while since I've used it, but my recollection is that it was pretty good for MIDI programming. I'm keeping an eye on it with the intention of possibly switching to it from Sonar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi all. Is fl studio good for composing orchestral music? I've being playing around with it but mostly to assist myself in learning basic harmony (I'm a complete music illiterate), and I feel the grand piano sounds very mechanical unlike when real humans play. :banghead: A Digital Audio Workstation by definition: is an electronic system designed solely or primarily for recording, editing and playing back digital audio. FL Studio's grand piano sample has nothing to do with its ability as a DAW. You need to understand what you're asking so we can understand what you're asking. Are you looking for the virtual instruments or the software you use to write for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never rest Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks for all your replies. Rozovian, I'm into electronic stuff as well, and I'm planning to mix it with orchestral stuff. Where do I get started learning electronic music? Is it like traditional music where there's a well developed body of theory? Neblix, sorry I'm a nub. I'm looking both for a good software and good plugins for instruments (I'm willing to pay for good ones but not go overboard with $$). I really don't understand all the techno babble at wikipedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks for all your replies. Rozovian, I'm into electronic stuff as well, and I'm planning to mix it with orchestral stuff. Where do I get started learning electronic music? Is it like traditional music where there's a well developed body of theory? Neblix, sorry I'm a nub. I'm looking both for a good software and good plugins for instruments (I'm willing to pay for good ones but not go overboard with $$). I really don't understand all the techno babble at wikipedia. There are some books about electronic, but the best way to learn is to listen heavily to the kinds of electronic you like. Look for YouTube tutorials on how to get certain sounds and if you don't know the names of the sound types, post on these forums for the higher up technoheads to answer. The reason I don't like reading books is because they're kind of general (or too specific) and there are so many different kinds of electronic music from DnB to dubstep to house to trance that the best way to learn is to listen to what you want to make (replication is the best way to learn) As far as a good DAW, it can be anything you want really, but FL isn't a badly drawn step sequencer anymore like it was a decade ago, it's a full on digital audio workstation like every other (and has a unique nonlinear workflow and some features that others don't have). I'm just saying it definitely should be listed as one of your choices (since the demo is free...) As far as good plug-ins, they are what you make of them, but there is a certain extent to what cheaper ones can do. I would sincerely recommend EastWest Symphonic Orchestra as your orchestral palette, it has a lot of articulations and the sample quality is superb (not the absolute ultimate, but definitely good enough for film and game industry). As far as synthesizers go, if I had to go with just one, I would recommend Zebra 2. It covers all the types of synthesis and its modular workflow makes it really flexible as far as control goes. You can make a lot of different sounds with it. Once you learn how to use it, you won't need anything else. You could also go for the goliath bundle Komplete 8 which has a metric ton of synths, sample libraries, and effects to add to your library as far as non-orchestral-but-still-acoustic-instrument sounds go. One of the included synthesizers, Massive, is one of my all time favorite synthesizers. The included drum samples in Komplete 8 will also set you up for rock, ethnic, electronic or what have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks for all your replies. Rozovian, I'm into electronic stuff as well, and I'm planning to mix it with orchestral stuff. Where do I get started learning electronic music? Is it like traditional music where there's a well developed body of theory? Neblix, sorry I'm a nub. I'm looking both for a good software and good plugins for instruments (I'm willing to pay for good ones but not go overboard with $$). I really don't understand all the techno babble at wikipedia. Electronic, like orchestral, like anything, will take a while to learn. Don't expect to be awesome at it at first. Do stuff and have fun with it. Try to do something new every time, and you'll learn stuff. Read stuff to supplement your practical learning. Listen to stuff to come up with new things to try. Compare your stuff with that of others, and don't be discouraged when yours doesn't sound as awesome - instead, figure out what's different, and learn from it. Electronic is less about music theory (you can do well with just the basics) and more about groove, mixing and sound design. I've got Komplete, it's a great package of tools. I also recommend free stuff like FreeAlpha and TAL-Elek7ro II, two decent subtractive synths. Subtractive? Look it up, try them out. Your DAW will probably come with basic tools as well, everything you need, at least for a while. I have a link to my remixing guide in my sig, check that out for some of the basics (and some things a little beyond basics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Electronic is less about music theory Depends what kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorax Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hey Never Rest, are you still uncertain about what DAW to use and whatnot? I want you to check out a product by Acoustica called Mixcraft 5 (with a public beta of Mixcraft 6). It's simpler to use than FL, not to mention you are able to open project files even when the trial period ends (14 days for MX5, 30 days for the MX6 beta). I won't delve into details here, I suggest you at least check out the first link there for more information about this DAW. Also, if you don't have one, get a MIDI keyboard or other MIDI input device. Not needed, but a good hardware device to have. Bonus points if it has MIDI CC controls built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Neblix, I understand you are a pro-IL guy, but I'm gonna promote a non-Image-Line product here, is that ok? I'm just picking with you Neblix. Your sarcasm would be better suited to if I was actively promoting FL Studio, not defending it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorax Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Your sarcasm would be better suited to if I was actively promoting FL Studio, not defending it. Wait, is that what this thread is about? lemme edit that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconiator Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 This is why most newbs do electronic music - synth tracks don't require nearly the same attention to performance to sound decent. Are you calling Halc a noob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC2151 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think if you reread the statement you quoted you'd find that he is not saying what you think he is implying. For actual score production, Sibelius 5 is the way to go, but that is really at its best when you have access to an actual orchestra that can play the music. Which is not often. Outside of that, most DAWs have what you want in terms of orchestral. FL is pretty good in that regard, at least from personal experience. However, if you are dealing with a piano roll (like in FL Studio and REAPER), you more or less are dealing with the same thing in terms of actual composition. Orchestral music on a computer is a lot about filter effects, reverberation, etc., which would be something you have to learn about. Especially about "humanization" and mixing, and mastering. In that point I don't think there really is one DAW better than another at that - it depends on what works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Are you calling Halc a noob? He's saying noobs gravitate to electronic because then they don't get hounded with humanization complaints. He's not saying electronic people are noobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickomoo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 For $10,000 dollars, you could hire an Eastern European Orchestra to record about 5 minutes of music for you.Just saying... No DAW is going to make you a master of orchestra music out of the box. My suggestion is to get a DAW that works well for you (make certain it supports VST), and then get a nice all in one solution like EWQL Symphonic Orchestra. The nice thing about East West's stuff is that they give 50% discounts to Students. So, if you're a student, just starting out, well, there you go. Apparently you can't use it to produce soundtracks? supposedly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Apparently you can't use it to produce soundtracks? supposedly? That was with EWQL Choirs when it first came out, and that restriction has been lifted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 That was with EWQL Choirs when it first came out, and that restriction has been lifted. He's talking about the educational licenses, and he's correct. Which makes perfect sense, because educational licenses are intended for educational use (not commercial). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorax Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 He's talking about the educational licenses, and he's correct.Which makes perfect sense, because educational licenses are intended for educational use (not commercial). In other words, fine for OCR use, depends on cicumstances anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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