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The Joker

King Dedede UPDATED!

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So.. was thinking of submitting my Dedede track from BadAss, wanted to get a mod review before I did. Here's a new version, with a slightly tweaked EQ, FX, & some arrangement fixes.

03-20-12 Edit: http://kngi.org/thejoker/TheJoker-LastDance(OCR).mp3

Mix: http://ocr2.blueblue.fr/files/music/albums/badass/18%20King%20Dedede%20%28Kirby%20Super%20Star%29%20-%20The%20Last%20Dance%20%5BThe%20Joker%5D.mp3

Original:

So, good enough?

Edit: Here's a breakdown. Pretty much everything in the track corresponds with the notations from the original just really slowed down. Especially the bass notes (piano, bass, cello). Here's a better rundown of the main stuff.

The intro distorted cello plays a slowed down intro bass from the original.

:13 the twinkles play the main trumpet lead from the original

:26 is the break from the original, minus a few grace notes.

1:04, the effected Cello plays the mian theme minus a few grace notes. The chilly synth also plays it here as well as 2:21

1:17 twinkles play the b side of the main melody from the original

1:55 is pretty much the break/intro bass from the original only slowed down.

2:08 plays a slightly modified version of the main melody.

2:33 plays the main theme again with the twinkles until the end.

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This is the source right?

This probably wouldn't pass because its too liberal. I have trouble picking out source at all tbh - could you provide a source breakdown? Might be necessary for the judges with a mix as liberal as this. Production seems good enough, but they'd need alot more source from what I can tell... I know there is source in here at parts but generally i'm not hearing nearly enough for the pass. You need roughly 50% source for it to be accepted on OCR, obviously depending on the judge, thats not set in stone, but if you have less than 45% I wouldn't hold get your hopes up for a mixpost.

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Done. Posted the breakdown in the first post. The main melody plays throughout the mix, almost exactly as it is in the original song. The only difference being a few transitional notes.

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This was one of my top 3 tracks from that album. I'd be very disappointed if they didn't let this through. Never had any problem picking out the theme, but then I'm a big fan of more abstract remixes.

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I'm with willrock -- I just don't hear much dedede in there at all.

I still find this extremely hard to understand. The bells/twinklies are exactly the same lead from the original, note for note.

Hmm, I'll take my chances with the source content, but what about the mixing & stuff?

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Without going super in-depth, I'd say from a quick listen that you don't have much to worry about, mixing-wise. I could probably get picky with more time, but there certainly aren't any glaring flaws staring me in the face.

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I still find this extremely hard to understand. The bells/twinklies are exactly the same lead from the original, note for note.

Hmm, I'll take my chances with the source content, but what about the mixing & stuff?

For the record, I will say that quite a few of the mods who looked at your track in the album eval didn't hear the source in your remix, one or two of them judges, its not just me.

Listening to your mix with the breakdown, quite a few bits i'm just not hearing at all source wise, even with what you've put in the breakdown. I'm hearing a little bit of the source here and there, but generally i'd argue many of the references are too liberal to be reasonably connected to the source. I'd call this a borderline call at best, and thats being very kind. If you want to submit this, I'd consider making this less liberal myself.

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The source is unmistakeable at 2:38 and on, and the bells are source, at least playing part of the source melody. After a single listen (and having way too much music to have really listened to BadAss despite being on it myself), I've got 100 seconds of source I'm fine with, without even considering the rest of the track. The bells are indeed source, and the melody. The pingy synth is referencing the lead.

Yeah, I'm not looking at your breakdown. :P

But the intro-break part buys you another 120 seconds of source references if not overt usage. The pingy synth in the break is source. In other words, I hear it fine. Without even looking at the breakdown. :D

I'd say certain mods and judges aren't listening. I hear it. After two listens to the source, and two listens to the remix, I hear it fine. Feel free to ignore the naysayers, the source is there. Which brings us to:

I like how several Js were like "watch out, this is pretty liberal, Larry may no rikey", when the source tunes were all over this and they're just deaf.

Anyway, I'm a little concerned about the bass level, it seems like it's just really loud in the... idunno, in the range of an early harmonic, it's like a howl rather than a boom. If that makes any sense. Besides that, I think it could benefit from having the pingy melody synth brought out a little, which should help make the melody a little more obvious, too.

I think I'd be fine with this, tho, any nitpicks would be personal preference and/or guesses. As for getting posted, I'd say it'd pass, possibly with some source-deaf complaints.

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Being told i'm source deaf by rozo has warranted me to take another look and better back up my statements.

I've listened to the source to the point I know it inside out, listening to the remix now.

I feel like I can hear references to the source with those "twinkles" as you refer to them, but I'm not hearing anything concrete there, it sounds like there is very wet delay, which is interfering with me recognizing the source. I THINK its there but i'm having to try very hard to make the connection. That instrument is the only source related thing I can hear for the most part of the track.

Then at 2:33, things get more obvious. I can definitely roll with that as source usuage. Basically, it becomes more obvious near the end of the mix. This is why I think it would be borderline - some of it is obviously there, but up until 2:33, its not obvious enough... I almost feel like i'm hearing references because i'm looking for them, not because they are there. OCR source guidelines call for 50% clear source usuage. I wouldn't call the twinkles clear source usuage, and there are other bits you mentioned (like at 2:08 ) that I feel might be there, but I can't make the solid connection and definitely wouldn't count if you didn't say they were there. It probably adds up to something like 30-35% for me... other judges might be kinder and count other parts I didn't but i'm not hearing enough for OCR myself. I wouldn't be sold on this for that reason.

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Those bells are a bit shrill now, the intro seems a bit sudden. Aside from that, I'm fine with it. It's minimalistic, but I think it works, it's a cool, menacing mood. imo, the track getting posted hinges on whether or not the Js think your source references count as source usage.

Sub it when you're happy with it.

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I still find this extremely hard to understand. The bells/twinklies are exactly the same lead from the original, note for note.

Hmm, I'll take my chances with the source content, but what about the mixing & stuff?

I can hear the bells playing the middle fragment of Dedede's theme very well, but not the main part of the melody at the beginning (in fact, it sounds like it's been overdelayed), and the main melody is what a lot of people are looking for. I hear the melody clearly after going halfway through the piece, and it's offbeat.

Not a master in mixing (I'm a novice, actually!), so I can't say much there. But, I can say two things —

1) I do like this take on Dedede's theme. The only part I have trouble with is the ending, which sounds off in places: the melody and chords just don't seem to click. Otherwise, the piece is quite original.

2) I imagine some of us who actually listened to the song didn't listen all the way through and then complained that there is no melody from Dedede's theme. Might I make a suggestion, please? Listen all the way through. Thank you. If you have listened all the way through, great job. :)

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Alright, did some things. Added a slight intro so it doesn;t hit you with all that force right out of the gate, brought out the pingy synth without making it too harsh (hopefully), EQ'd it a bit more... fixed the off notes toward the end*, even did some more minor edits to the arrangement itself to bring out the melody from the original.

http://kngi.org/thejoker/TheJoker-LastDance(OCR).mp3

*not the ones Trois mentioned, these weren't off as much as they were playing countermelodies.

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Definitely still enjoying this one. Not doing a side-by-side comparison to see what's changed, but, sounds good to me. I also didn't notice any off notes last time around (hangs head in shame).

--Eino

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