*NO* Final Fantasy 8 'Moon Over Rinoa'

[djpretzel]

Hey djp,

Here we have yet another piano waltz. I'm trying to stick with something I know every once in a while, because heaven forbid someone else take my "king o' olde stile waltzes" crown from me. I wrote this one for the first audition of the rpgamer.com competition going on right now, and I was DESTROYED. It didn't fare too well on vgmix either. Nevertheless, after numerous listen-throughs, I think the remix is a good one personally. It is based on the Waltz of the Moon track from FFVIII again (same as Moontang). This one is much more recognizable if you've ever listened to the original. Uh, that's about it.

Remixer name: Bladiator

Real name: Karl Harmdierks

Email: bladiator@juno.com

Game remixed: Final Fantasy 8

Song remixed: Waltz of the Moon

My track title: Moon Over Rinoa

Thanks,

~Karl

[Sam Ascher-Weiss]

http://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/packs2/FF8_minipsf.rar - 115 "Waltz for the Moon"

I think you should submit another remix of Waltz for the Moon every three weeks. We could build up quite a collection, but I'm guessing we'll probably just have to settle for two. Ah well! Anyway, on to the mix.

You start out with that cheerful, ever-so-recognizeable Bladiator waltz style. Especially cute is the original material inserted at 1:01. BUT THEN.. at 1:10 we get a rare treat. It's straight-up 4/4 pop rhythms with a few tastefully placed modern chords. The tag line you created as a seque back to 3/4 with the anchor note up top being gently caressed by the smooth repeating downward chord progression is ace! At 3:00 it's finally time to bring in that extra-bombastic watlz version of the bridge leading into some signature Bladiator harmonies dancing underneath a single motif from the original. This builds perfectly into your 3-note out with a bang ending. Who could ask for more?

YeS

[Liontamer]

Featured this one on VGF60 and also covered it during my summer writeups after it was used as a part of Splendid Performance:

Liontamer (6/4)]Bladiator - Final Fantasy 8 "Moon over Rinoa" [VGMix2 #4078 / Splendid Performance: On the Keys]

For fans of Karl's previous piano waltz remix Super Mario World "Grand Valse Mario", you get more of the same goodness here with “Moon over Rinoa” which applies some waltzy touches to the already-waltzy "Waltz from the Moon" before moving into some richer-sounding territory and circling back into the whimsical waltzy schmaltzy. Not really groundbreaking or anything, considering past work using the same idea, but now the FF fans have something from Blad to sink their grubby little paws into. I'd also like to point out how I didn't care much for the FF8 soundtrack, just to rub it in GrayLightning's face.

I wanna stress that the arrangement is sweet. The waltz pattern from :32-:38, which later served as the backing chords, was definitely in the same style of the previous "Grand Valse Mario", which is a hit or miss idea for some. To me, it sounded too similar to Valse. I'd like to think that there's some other way to provide the waltz structure there without rehashing it, but maybe I'm wrong. In any case, there's no points taken off for it, just an observation.

In any case, it just seems that as a piece played to and then edited from a MIDI (correct me if I'm wrong), this had no richness to it. Beyond mainly the 2:35 point, it was a bit better, and there were earlier spots that were somewhat full as well. Yet there were too many spots where the feel was lackluster. 1:05-1:30 reminds me of Bev's stuff a little bit; plunky and thin, although this was more spirited. Nonetheless, the whole thing sounded mechanical.

There's a lot more attention to general dynamics and whatnot here, but the individual notes all sound robotic. Too bad it's not a saloon-type theme where that would work. Not that I'd go easy on it, but I'd be less conflicted and leaning towards YES if I hadn't heard Karl do better with the same setup. It's a step down here, IMO. Just needs fine tuning/tweaking/TLC for the easy YES.

NO (resubmit)

[analoq]

blad had me going 'ho hum' when this started sounding like his previous mixes, but then he dropped the compound time and gave us a real treat.

the build-up, return and conlusion to the waltz was beautiful beautiful beautiful.

i can skip a dose of anti-depressants whenever blad makes a new mix

yes

[The Orichalcon]

I remember when Karl first sent this to me a while back. One of the first things I noticed was just how similar it was to the original Waltz in the game, but also how we're treated to some entirely original sections as well.

The tempo in this mix is a bit faster than the original, which gives it an extra enjoyable spin. The arrangement here is remarkably good, as Karl tends to take the original and add little extra interpretations throughout, rather than just covering an entire section and then endorsing an original section. There are enough clever ideas here to well and truly qualify this as a remix, and as usual the performance is tip-top.

The production here is a small issue. The piano does sound very basic, not much different to what it would sound like in midi-form. I strongly feel that the piece would sound much better and more acceptable if it was recorded live, or if Karl mastered the piece to perhaps make it sound more "live." I hate to put this on Karl specifically, but as painful as it is I'll give this a pass for now and hope that he may provide a live-played version (or at least a touched up version) to give this mix the sound it really needs to push it into that memorable-piano-remixes hall of fame. The incredible arrangement that Karl gives to his piano mixes deserves more than just being recorded with a midi-sounding piano.

NO for now. (Resubmit)

[zircon]

This sounds awfully similar to your Super Mario World remix.. some sections are nearly identical! :32 to :38 for instance is almost a carbon copy of part of the intro to your SMW mix, with a few minor changes. Not that it's bad, but overall I felt this didn't really bring anything new to the table. I have to agree with Larry that the mix seems like a step down from your other work which is a bit disappointing.

The arrangement seemed good to me overall though it stayed in the same general style as the original arrangement in structure (waltz -> waltz). Sound quality was solid, no better or worse than Grand Valse. It's hard to exactly put my finger on what I think this is missing.. but it seems like it's just lacking something. I wish I could qualify it more, but I simply don't feel comfortable passing this.

NO

[DarkeSword]

I've gotta agree with the other NO voters. This piece sounds like more of the same from you man, and it doesn't really indicate any kind of growth as an arranger. I don't feel that the arragement is as cohesive as your other stuff. This certainly isn't your best work.

It's a nice piano piece though; some good playing with decent production. But I think you need to bring something new to the table; it feels like more of the same from you, and your previous waltzes deliver more impact to the listener. This song sounds like you're just applying a formula to the original, rather than approaching the piece creatively.

NO

[Harmony]

Nice. The composition is simple and effective, the arrangement is engaging and relatively creative and the performance is above the bar IMO. 2:02-2:08, 2:38-2:40 and 1:15-1:16 stand out as examples of some of the beautifully utilized chords in this piece.

That being said, I too hear a hint of the plunky, midi-like lackluster vibe that Larry, TO and Zircon mention. Would a darker longer reverb make this daring mix bold as well? Would making the tempo changes more frequent and more fluid help humanize things? Would scaling back the velocities on 1:25-1:31 help give the middle 4/4 section more dynamic variety? Maybe, but I don’t think that the improvements would be drastic at all, and that’s the best I have in terms of suggestions. The fact that I can’t pinpoint any sure-fire ways to fix the minor issues that I have with this mix leaves me leaning towards a passing grade here. Good performance and great arrangement get my vote.

YES

[GrayLightning]

I'm torn on this one. I don't think it's Blad's best effort. We don't have a requirement of having someone outdo their previous submissions to get back on OCR, but to clarify, when something like this is a bit of a scaled back effort in the arrangement and production then it is something to cite and it's noticeable.

The arrangement starts off as analoq cited, but then gets more and more engaging and interesting. Which is difficult since this source material is interesting. But ultimately I think some of NO criticisms hold here. A lot of it sounds similar but lacking the impact of your other stuff. There is a missing link here and when the top notes are exposed alone they do sound overly thin. Hate to agree with larry and darke but the rehash statement holds a little water.

The production is vanilla. I'm not talking about samples, a lot of people use low end or free samples very well, but here there's nothing going on beyond the simple sample. I'd like to hear some EQ work to give this more body and some reverb to give this a little more density and space.

The the latter half of the mix was really great. I'm torn. I'm gonna have to go with a borderline NO. I'd like to see this one polished just a bit more.

[The wingless]

Oh Darkesword, you tickle me with your notions of "growth" and "raising your giz-ame".

But I am off-put by the production values. The piano screams, "Check me out. I r teh mock-turtle of pianos. kekeke". But the arrangement can't be denied. Dynamics, tempo changes. Oscillations between massive chords, and delicate little pixie-feet notes. All the n00b is missing is the kitchen sink.

I vote YES, on the grounds that I believe that the quality of the arrangement balances, and to a certain extent, surpasses the lack-of-quality in the instrument of choice.

[Vig]

i couldnt give two shakes of a rat's anus whether or not this is worse than bladiator's other stuff. i'm not familiar with his material, but if he were i'm not sure if i'd care anyway. i'm looking at this song in and of itself.

that said

the sample doesnt bother me.

the eq doesnt bother me.

the arrangement is tons of fun.

the only thing that bothers me is the inorganic sequencing. The timing is just too perfect and the notes are measured identically. it's especially irritating in the slower sections when live solo pianists wont be so concerned with keeping time.

i really wish the timing were more natural, but as it is, the dynamics are fine, and the arrangement is good, so i go

YES

[DarkeSword]

Vig, I'm pretty sure Bladiator plays all of his stuff, rather than sequencing, so the perfect timing in this case isn't really a bad thing.

Maybe.

[Vig]

in that case he...played...it mechanically. all i know is what i hear. if this is performed live, well..wow, but i think a solo piano piece ought to have less strict meter.

kthxshariq

[djpretzel]

When the original is already a waltz to begin with, while this remains an admirable reinstrumentation to solo piano, there's not enough going on to make it interesting, in my opinion. Solo piano mixes don't have to make many choices about instrumentation, and involve generally fewer choices when it comes to production/mastering, and so the largest area to really shine in is performance and arrangement. The latter, in this case, isn't creative enough when compared to the source, and while the performance is generally fine, there are some areas where I'd concur with Jesse in things sounding a bit plunkish/mechanical. I think it's less a timing issue and more a dynamics one, as the tempo DOES fluctuate, but regardless of the cause, I can hear the symptom.

That blad can do better is obvious, however we need to ignore the mixer's past, superior submissions and analyze this in a vacuum. However, even anonymously, given the original was already a fairly similar waltz, I don't see enough substance.

No.