Next Super Smash Bros. being co-developed by Namco Bandai

[Overflow]

My intuition also tells me that when in doubt, a human or humanoid should be selected over a circular character.

lol whatever happened to Kirby or Meta Knight

[ad.mixx]

Sonic frequented Nintendo consoles since the GCN days.

I'd also like to mention that Tales would probably be more popular with Nintendo fans than Dig Dug or Tower of Druaga anyday considering a few (3 off the top of my head) of it's games have been on Nintendo systems exclusively. And even more that were later ported over to Playstation consoles.

Unless you were saying you'd personally prefer those games over Tales and Tekken. In which case ok.

[GTAHater836]

If you ask me, things didn't improve for Sonic until less than 3 years ago. Sonic Generations is one of 2011's best games. Sonic's GCN games, for the most part, were no good. I don't recall Sonic Heroes ever getting good reviews.

To overflow: Yes, I know the biggest-name characters in the Kirby series were circular. But Kirby wasn't competing so hard against anything else like Pac-Man is up against Tekken, Soul Calibur, and most importantly Xeno and Tales Of.

[jnWake]

my main problem with brawl is the abysmal single player mode

don't tease me with all those sexy cutscenes if the gameplay required to unlock them is going to be tons of repetitive and confusing garbage

Brawl's single player is very cool imo. Some of the stages were pretty cool, it had amazing boss battles, cool cutscenes and was quite challenging...

I hope the next Smash Bros. has something similar, but better!

[DusK]

If you ask me, things didn't improve for Sonic until less than 3 years ago. Sonic Generations is one of 2011's best games. Sonic's GCN games, for the most part, were no good. I don't recall Sonic Heroes ever getting good reviews.

Sonic Adventure DX and SA2 Battle were pretty good. Sonic Advance games were okay too. Rush started pushing a little downward, but still enjoyable.

Let's pretend that Sonic Heroes, Sonic 2k6, and the werewolf stages of Unleashed never existed. Ever. EVER.

[PixelPanic]

Sonic Adventure DX and SA2 Battle were pretty good. Sonic Advance games were okay too. Rush started pushing a little downward, but still enjoyable.

Let's pretend that Sonic Heroes, Sonic 2k6, and the werewolf stages of Unleashed never existed. Ever. EVER.

IMO Sonic Heroes is extremely underrated. Yes, the voice acting is horrendous, and the graphics are sub-par, but I think the gameplay is enjoyable, and the special stages had a good balance of challenge and fun.

[Brushfire]

So everything about the game is bad, but its ok cause your willing to settle and cant expect a game company to actually try?

Also I like how you find glitchy awful falling through floors for no reason to be good gameplay.

[Benjamin Briggs]

So everything about the game is bad, but its ok cause your willing to settle and cant expect a game company to actually try?

Also I like how you find glitchy awful falling through floors for no reason to be good gameplay.

only slightly relevant:

[PixelPanic]

So everything about the game is bad, but its ok cause your willing to settle and cant expect a game company to actually try?

Also I like how you find glitchy awful falling through floors for no reason to be good gameplay.

I never said that, I said I liked Sonic Heroes even though it had flaws, and gets a lot of shit when it's definitely an enjoyable game to some people. If they didn't try, you'd get things like, well

that.

Also,

I don't recall Sonic Heroes ever getting good reviews.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/449/449162p3.html

and a 72% from Metacritic.

[BardicKnowledge]

I don't care who they add as long as we don't have anymore stupid tripping and stupid disjointed hitboxes.

Yes this 100x! Everyone who can should take a look at Project M. While its goals are essentially to make a sequel to Melee (a goal the succeed at imo) and therefore keep a few things I'm not a great fan of (namely wavedashing instead of Brawl's neutral air dodge), it's a vastly superior version of Smash by almost all counts.

Weren't those mechanics added because Sakurai dislikes the hypercompetitive aspect of the FGC?

Yes, though I don't know why since Melee is still a badass game for casual play and always has been.

It's not hyper-competitive to ask for complete control over your character.

I would also like an option for fixed item spawn locations, which would open up the vast majority of items to competitive play.

[Tensei]

I always thought this franchise was one of the weirdest games to get a competitive scene, considering Nintendo has no experience nor apparent interest in catering to competitive gamers (In fact, the idea of Nintendo releasing something like a balance patch is downright hilarious to me), and the existing community has to jump through massive hoops (= 90% of the stages and items being banned, only a handful of viable ´top tier´ characters) to create something that has any semblance of balance whatsoever.

What's next, competitive Mario Party?

[Overflow]

I've never considered Smash Bros to be a competitive game, at least not in the sense that that word is being used here. It actually really annoys me whenever I play against someone 'competitive': they refuse to play Brawl and the super finicky controls and twitchy gameplay of Melee just end up frustrating me and I just get upset while they wave-dash and edge-guard. I like Brawl more because it's slower paced and more focused on FUN rather than the competition. What's the point of playing Smash Bros if you're not going to use items or play on the fun stages?

For that reason I have zero interest in Project M.

Also Game and Watch is better in Brawl and he's awesome.

[EC2151]

The way I see it:

What's the point of playing Brawl with stages that can easily kill you (Spear Pillar), and items that ruin the flow of the match (see: all Brawl additions), and floaty slow controls that sometimes randomly fuck you up?

I kind of want to have FUN when I play a game, and Melee is more focused on FUN.

[Tensei]

Fun is just a buzzword that people use when they can't come up with arguments for why a game is good. It's actually also subjective, so I could totally see people enjoying Brawl more because of stuff like smash balls.

[EC2151]

It's not that I don't see people having fun with it, but for all it does is turn the game into an item rush (hey everyone stop playing the game so we can chase the erratically moving shiny glowy ball!). And even with items set on low (the only setting i can really handle since the item drop-rate in brawl is crazy), the damn thing shows up at least 3 times a match. And stuff like the Golden Hammer, and Firecracker, etc etc. They're all the same ilk.

Melee had that with some of the rarer pokemon drops, but you had to wait for a pokeball (a single item) and hope it was a super-strong pokemon - in a sense, that's a chance within a chance.

The items in Brawl unbalanced the game too much for me and my friends, so we had to turn a lot of them off. As well as a lot of the stages off too.

[DusK]

Fun is just a buzzword that people use when they can't come up with arguments for why a game is good. It's actually also subjective, so I could totally see people enjoying Brawl more because of stuff like smash balls.

This. Smash balls were one of my favorite parts of that game, actually. The way they dramatically changed the tone of the match was awesome, really made for some fun times playing with my friends.

Man, I'm gonna have to bust that game out again.

[JackKieser]

Yes this 100x! Everyone who can should take a look at Project M. While its goals are essentially to make a sequel to Melee (a goal the succeed at imo) and therefore keep a few things I'm not a great fan of (namely wavedashing instead of Brawl's neutral air dodge), it's a vastly superior version of Smash by almost all counts.

Meh, it's decent. Balanced Brawl fixed everything that was a serious issue with Brawl and did it before P:M was even a concept. You can fix Brawl's issues without making it indistinct from its predecessor. I always saw P:M as less of a balancing / competitive issue and more of a "we can't move on / want to bring back the Melee players" issue.

I would also like an option for fixed item spawn locations, which would open up the vast majority of items to competitive play.

Um, items are already open to competitive play, and have been since 2008.

I'm just hoping that Sakurai has the good sense to listen to the Tekken team, instead of just use them for manpower.

[The Derrit]

Um, items are already open to competitive play, and have been since 2008.

let me just say

LOL.

edit: let me just say that it makes total sense that you of all people would be the person heading up the 'competitive item coalition' or whatever it was called not even going to bother clicking on the link again to see what it's called. when was the last time any tournament that anyone cared about had items in it? the answer is never. yes you can play with items and yes you can have tournaments with items but it's not 'competitive play' because it's dumb and breaks any semblance of balance that brawl had (which it honestly didn't even have to begin with)

so yeah.

[JackKieser]

Say LOL all you want, chief. You didn't personally preside over the largest national item-play tournament since Melee and succeed, getting top players to admit to the viability of a ruleset that had been never attempted before.

I did.

umad.jpeg

[jnWake]

I thought forum discussions couldn't be more worthless...

Anyway, I hope the revealing of new characters starts soon, it's one of the most interesting parts of the game after all.

[The Derrit]

yeah i really have no interest in starting a flame war there either my *read everyone*'s opinion is out there and there's no need to discuss it further.

i'm interested to see what namco changes. i'm sure it's going to follow the regular formula, but for instance in the switch from melee to brawl who saw reverse ledgegrabs coming? or multiple airdodges? small mechanics like that change the game so it'll be cool to see what quirks come in and out of the formula

[Mirby]

I thought forum discussions couldn't be more worthless...

Anyway, I hope the revealing of new characters starts soon, it's one of the most interesting parts of the game after all.

wonder if the Dojo will start back up...

[liquid wind]

Say LOL all you want, chief. You didn't personally preside over the largest national item-play tournament since Melee and succeed, getting top players to admit to the viability of a ruleset that had been never attempted before.

I did.

umad.jpeg

getting people to try something once isn't impressive, tournaments almost universally do not allow items even while stage lists are frequently different, ledge grab limits are debated, and even the legality of meta knight is much more contended. items are the one thing that basically everyone agrees have no place in competitive smash

in any case, I'm hoping namco's involvement is indicative of more sensitivity towards the competitive scene. if the primary purpose of the game is all items free for alls still that's fine, but -some- attempt at balance would be nice as opposed to brawl which was basically a giant middle finger to us.

[The Derrit]

getting people to try something once isn't impressive, tournaments almost universally do not allow items even while stage lists are frequently different, ledge grab limits are debated, and even the legality of meta knight is much more contended. items are the one thing that basically everyone agrees have no place in competitive smash

if you missed the link Jack Keiser heads up the 'free item alliance' or whatever he calls it that insists tournaments are better with items and even puts on one or two every year or so

but yeah i think namco will at least try to axe the randomness factor that brawl had planted in it, other than that i'm excited to see what they'll do differently.

[Tensei]

getting people to try something once isn't impressive, tournaments almost universally do not allow items even while stage lists are frequently different, ledge grab limits are debated, and even the legality of meta knight is much more contended. items are the one thing that basically everyone agrees have no place in competitive smash

in any case, I'm hoping namco's involvement is indicative of more sensitivity towards the competitive scene. if the primary purpose of the game is all items free for alls still that's fine, but -some- attempt at balance would be nice as opposed to brawl which was basically a giant middle finger to us.

Who's 'us'? I'm not going to pretend that Smash Bros is anything but a party game (let alone a competitive game or an esport), because again, the developer shows absolutely zero interest in fostering a scene. Any game headed by Nintendo is simply not going to have baseline features required for competitive gaming like matchmaking, spectating, sponsorships or even balance patches.