Transitioning into a professional musician

[Garrett Williamson]

I disagree. Piracy was rampant in those decades too. It's just that the internet allows it on an even larger scale. Making decent money on recordings has only ever been feasible if you're already a fairly well known musician or people licence a lot of your music.

Well right, there's always been piracy.

But yes, with the internet, everything has become so easy these days and piracy is just another one of those things.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

"and isn't 100% in your control."

That's the only part I don't agree with. It's OK something happened to Tommy Tallarico to get him in the business but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have been able to do it without that accident. Bad stuff is going to happen no matter what we do but we can always find a way to overcome it or turn it around into something advantageous. That's what I believe anyway.

Well, by "accident" I mean the story he always tells about how some producer or whatever happened to be the first customer that walked into a music store he got a job at and offered him a job testing games or something similar to that and he then persuaded the company to give him a shot at music. Sure, you can make the point that his decision to move to California and apply at the store played a significant part in all that, but he ultimately didn't choose who walked through the door. Yeah, he very well could have made it as a musician regardless (since he's Steven Tyler's cousin), so it stands to reason that fate certainly played a part in him becoming a famous video game composer. Hence my point of these things not being 100% in your control.

I'm not trying to be such a bitter sounding jackass or a naysayer, I'm just saying people tend to be way too optimistic about music careers.

[Sole Signal]

Well, by "accident" I mean the story he always tells about how some producer or whatever happened to be the first customer that walked into a music store he got a job at and offered him a job testing games or something similar to that and he then persuaded the company to give him a shot at music. Sure, you can make the point that his decision to move to California and apply at the store played a significant part in all that, but he ultimately didn't choose who walked through the door. Yeah, he very well could have made it as a musician regardless (since he's Steven Tyler's cousin), so it stands to reason that fate certainly played a part in him becoming a famous video game composer. Hence my point of these things not being 100% in your control.

I'm not trying to be such a bitter sounding jackass or a naysayer, I'm just saying people tend to be way too optimistic about music careers.

That's life in general, not specific only to musical careers. There's a reason that the breaks often seem to fall to those who work the hardest (assuming of course, also some sort of talent and ability). There's always going to be outliers either way--but that's no reason to get discouraged and not try.

I'm nowhere near Tallarico or some of the other big players around here but I spent many years without landing anything substantial. Then I got

and things took off from there. Similar to avaris, I use music as a healthy side income but I know it could be more if I worked all night after getting home from work. As it is, some of my "vacation days" from the office often turn out to be days to work on music, but I wouldn't have it any different. Have to keep a healthy balance though.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

I'm not trying to be such a bitter sounding jackass or a naysayer, I'm just saying people tend to be way too optimistic about music careers.

I know you aren't a jackass. I'm just debating stuff. I actually think that people tend to be way too pessimistic about music careers. Hahaha.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

I know you aren't a jackass. I'm just debating stuff. I actually think that people tend to be way too pessimistic about music careers. Hahaha.

[ellywu2]

It's fucking hard work getting in, and even if you do - unless you're at the absolute top of the tree - you aren't going to earning the same amount you would comparatively if you stuck it out in a normal job. You can make a living out of it, plenty of people here are, myself included, and it's doing something you love.

Worth the risk IMO.

[Garpocalypse]

I know you aren't a jackass. I'm just debating stuff. I actually think that people tend to be way too pessimistic about music careers. Hahaha.

I'm not trying to be such a bitter sounding jackass or a naysayer, I'm just saying people tend to be way too optimistic about music careers.

Everyone starts out with dreams and ambition, a few make it and reality crushes the spirits of the ones that don't.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

That is totally true, Gar.

I am currently being mentored by a guitarist named Tom Hess and he likes to disprove famous sayings. One of them stuck with me the first time I heard it. He said that people who believe in luck and knowing the right people often say, "if there really was a way for everyone to succeed in music, then everyone would do it." He then said that even if you gave an easy to follow checklist of exactly how to make it big with 100% success rate, most people who say they want to be musicians wouldn't do it. I felt that I understood him then and I understand it even more now that I am applying for a job as a guitar teacher and working on other things.

[ambient]

Everyone starts out with dreams and ambition, a few make it and reality crushes the spirits of the ones that don't.

Awesome. Can I quote you?

[Garpocalypse]

Awesome. Can I quote you?

If you are serious sure. I didn't think my drivel was quoteable. Quotable? Able to be kwoted... There we go. Another garpocalyptic moment by that...guy with....Gar, in his...name.

So anyway, didn't Marty Friedman move to Japan? Started playing with Japanese bands? Something like that? If you could get lessons from that guy it would look great on a musical resume.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Garpocalypse

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Saw this on Cracked.com this morning and it reminded me of this thread.

http://www.cracked.com/article_20317_the-7-most-wtf-post-fame-careers-famous-musicians.html

No freakin' way!

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Yes. Marty Friedman and I have all of the following points in common.

- We're both from Hawai'i

- we both play metal guitar

- we both moved to Japan

- we both married Japanese women

- we both have long curly hair

That was a hilarious article, Chris. Tank you.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Yes. Marty Friedman and I have all of the following points in common.

- We're both from Hawai'i

- we both play metal guitar

- we both moved to Japan

- we both married Japanese women

- we both have long curly hair

That was a hilarious article, Chris. Tank you.

The lesson from this article is that if the music thing doesn't work out

Start an ostrich farm.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

My band mates are totally holding me back. They don't have the drive to be a professional that I have. The guitarist is quite good but he doesn't seem to have time to practice these days and now some riffs are getting sloppy. The vocalist and bassist seem to be putting their other bands first. The drummer on the other hand is on the path and makes me quite happy. I was SO happy today when he told me that he is in a rock band that is going to play a show I America soon. I hope he gets paid. My hope is that he can find great drumming jobs while I get into the position to finally pay him for all the good work he does for me. We have a concert on April 13th. After that, I fire them all except the drummer and start anew.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

The place I applied for the job turned down my application. I will not be teaching guitar at their establishment. I was quite sad at first but now I only feel like I want it more. I will go into business for myself and build my roster of students on my own and quit my job. That is the current plan.

It's hard but I'd have to be a loser to give up now.

[DCT]

The place I applied for the job turned down my application. I will not be teaching guitar at their establishment. I was quite sad at first but now I only feel like I want it more. I will go into business for myself and build my roster of students on my own and quit my job. That is the current plan.

It's hard but I'd have to be a loser to give up now.

That's the spirit!

-D

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Thanks. I just listened to the introduction and first chapter of Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. A LOT of people have raved about the book, claiming that this is the definitive book for succeeding. Right in the very first chapter I'm having STUPID epiphanies. Hahaha. The guy said, "decided what you want, make a plan, and do it right away." I'm over here doing all kinds of stuff half-cocked without having ever made a plan. And THAT'S why I'm having short-term money problems. I'm making all these expensive products that will become big money makers in the long term but haven't got anything going to supply the money needed to make those products. How stupid am I!? I'm working on my plan right now and I've gotten some good ideas.

[Salluz]

It's even more challenging when treating a mood disorder, which both stimulates and interferes with output. It's heard of for musicians, particularly ones like Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, or hell, even Beethoven.

Zoltan, write a list of pursuits ranging from the most practical to the most farfetched.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Salluz

[The Legendary Zoltan]

SALLUZ YES SALLUZ!

My list or pursuits in order of practicality:

01-Release my full length album

02-Get a mailing list subscription form on my website (REALLY HARD! HELP APPRECIATED!)

03-Make an instructional DVD

04-Make an entire album of Valkyrie Profile Death Metal songs (& pay royalties)

05-Make a Xenogears rap album (& pay royalties)

06-Save one year's worth of salary ($30,000) and QUIT MY DAYJOB TO DEVOTE ALL OF MY TIME TO MY OWN PERSONAL BUSINESS INSTEAD OF WORKING FOR THE MAN!

07-Sell 9,999 albums

08-Get 1,000 subscribers to my newsletter

09-Sell 99,999 albums

10-Go on a small tour around Niigata Prefecture

11-Play live at MAGfest and hang out with OCR peeps, meeting them face-to-face for the first time EVER!

12-Join a big record company

13-Go on an all Japan tour

14-Sell 999,999 albums

15-Go on a European or World tour

16-Live a life of just creating things I want to create and selling them to a loving and anticipating audience.

Those are some of the things that I currently want to do. Some of them may change over time. The last one is basically the kind of life I want to live. To be able to live like that will require a lot of paying dues and building of a fan base and things like that. Thus is at the bottom of the list. Once I reach that one, I'll think of other fun goals to do.

Number 01 should be totally doable right away except for the fact that I need to secure the funds needed to actually print the thing. It is in mastering right now. I am considering very carefully about doing a kickstarter so I can fund and release it quickly.

The attainment of number 06 is actually my biggest priority right now. Everything I do right now is for the attainment of that goal. What do you think, Salluz? Are these goals crazy? I don't think they are.

In other news: I have begun reading (actually listening to) the book "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. I listen to one chapter twice before moving on to the next one to improve my retention of it all. I also ordered that book that Zircon recommended but it STILL hasn't arrived. And I am reading all about how to run a successful kickstarter campaign. My normal dayjob resumes this Monday. NOOOOO!

Edited April 4, 2013 by The Legendary Zoltan

[Magnetic Ether]

04-Make an entire album of Valkyrie Profile Death Metal songs (& pay royalties)

Just saw this and oh my god yes please!

I don't really feel like I have much more to contribute, but um...yeah. The Shining Blue Armor Descends is seriously one of my favorite songs.

I'm also looking forward to your album. If you need to secure the funds Kickstarter sounds like it would be the way to go.

[Brandon Strader]

I don't have a following but i'll post about the album at length on facebook when it becomes available xD

And you flippin-butt knows it I want to do vocals for albums or songs! Of yours! And maybe other peoples'... I DON'T KNOW mainly yours~!

[nOkbient]

I am currently only a junior in highschool, but For the past couple of years now I've been focussing on making music. Eventually, I want to be a video game composer. Being in highschool, there's not much I can do to promote myself other than the internet. I've also emailed a few well known vg composers (Grant Kirkhope, anyone?) and asked them for some of their sage advice. Grant told me about his career history, and said that he knew a guy who helped him get into Rare. Then he told me he was really impressed with my music, and god, that made my day . Actually, Grant was the one who told me to check out OCR, so here I am heh!

I've had a lot of trouble getting noticed/involved with stuff though. I have a deep passion for video games too, and y'know what? Not to brag or anything, but I'd say my music is pretty damn good! Hell, I even have my own studio; not a small desk in a bedroom with a computer that just happens to have FL on it, an actual room I can call my studio!

I've come to realize that getting noticed and actually getting the jobs I want is going to be a lot harder than I thought, however. The most I've gotten my work out is through a few people who have used my music in their videos. (Actually, if anyone has any advice on getting involved with the vgm composer scene, please message me. I know I need to get involved I just don't know how! K thanx!) I ordered that "Welcome to the Jungle" book Zircon mentioned. Hope I can learn a thing or two! Luckily I still have a little more time before I need to worry about personal finace, but I still need a job...shit.

[Salluz]

The attainment of number 06 is actually my biggest priority right now. Everything I do right now is for the attainment of that goal. What do you think, Salluz? Are these goals crazy? I don't think they are.

They're nto crazy, btu some of them will need some bridges. Tbh, my shot at success is not lacking, but my dream plans are absurdly out of reach at this moment. I need to improve my skill level before even trying.

[Benjamin Briggs]

it would greatly benefit any independent artist to stop thinking of "the music industry" in the old-world sense of record labels and getting lucky or whatever

there is an entirely new music industry within the actual reality of social media and the internet. cut out the middle man, and interact directly with your target audience. for me, my perseverance and daily streams of content are ultimately what grow my brand and increase sales/donations

[The Legendary Zoltan]

@Kuolema: Thanks, Kuolema. I'm glad you liked it. One day I'd actually like to redo it with my current MUCH BETTER sound. If you like that, you'll probably like the album.

@Brandon: Thanks, man. You totally do have a following. You probably just don't know it. Help me promote the kickstarter, once I get that going. I've been researching a lot so that I can do it right. Then I can pay you the Benjamins!

@nOkbient: You are on your way! It's rare to meet a junior high school student who thinks about all that stuff you just said. I would say that while your young is definitely the time to just suck up knowledge about HOW to do things and also practice them. That's called paying your dues. Then, when you get older you'll have skills and be ready to start doing things for money right off the bat. I unfortunately was not smart enough to realize that I need a teacher to teach me stuff no matter the cost, until I was over 30. Now I'm creeping up on 33 and I feel like only now am I finally going to start a real career. Anyway, the worst thing you can do is what I did which is having a plan B that has nothing to do with your plan A. If your plan A is to be a game composer, make sure your plan B isn't something like "work a part-time job at a restaurant until while I work on becoming a composer." That does not work very well. I am a teacher working toward becoming a musician and the day job sucks up a lot of my energy and of course free time. Make a plan B that actually is related to plan A or can be leveraged to get you closer to your plan A.

@Salluz: You're right. Some of my goals will need me to accomplish other things before them. I'm sure you'll totally nail what it is you want to do, man.

@Benjamin Briggs: I totally agree with you. Although, I do plan to join a record company someday, it is not a necessity to my making it as a musician.

@All: My current plan is my kickstarter campaign to release the album. I thought about it and don't feel like it's such an evil thing to ask for money for the album as long as I prove that it can be finished and let them hear some of the music ahead of time. So that's what I'll do.