(Round 4 Mixing) OCR SINGING IDOL!!!!! The OCR Singing Competition

[kitty]

I actually wanted to get in on the first week but was too busy/noticed the thread too late to participate meaningfully.

[Troyificus]

I'm hoping for classic rock goodness in future rounds ☺

[WillRock]

I'm hoping for classic rock goodness in future rounds ☺

There will be that, as well as some VG based music. Don't worry, we got a bit of everything planned.

[Cash]

I think the deadline for voting should be in the current news section. I know it says voting lasts for one week, but there's not any indication of when the week started. If someone hadn't been following the compo thread, they would have to dig through to find out that information.

[WillRock]

I think the deadline for voting should be in the current news section. I know it says voting lasts for one week, but there's not any indication of when the week started. If someone hadn't been following the compo thread, they would have to dig through to find out that information.

Thanks for pointing that out, oversight on my part. Added in the first post.

[timaeus222]

I was trying to do the reverse, actually. In the wide, wide world, most people are listening to music on crap headphones, speakers, etc. So it's critical to listen to your own mixes on crap headphones before submitting, which I neglected to do. If your mix doesn't sound good on cheap headphones, then your good ones may be doing you more harm than good.

In other words, I believe that cheap headphones always represent mixes "properly."

It's not that you'd be using your good headphones improperly if your mix doesn't sound good on bad headphones. Presuming that you're uber good at mixing already, it's that you'd be assuming that your good headphones are representative of many good quality audio systems' frequency responses. If there's no substantial evidence that that's the case (e.g. a reasonably flat frequency response graph) or you are unsure, you shouldn't just check on bad headphones, but also other ones that are nearly as good for some purpose or another. For example, my Grados are a great check for reverb amount and treble volume/gain, while my Beyers are a great check for low-mids and treble clarity but are drier than the Grados.

Checking on just the bad ones is clearly not allowing you to hear exactly what you can hear on better ones, and the only purpose they could serve is to reveal the common listening experience (which is what you had said), not the ideal listening experience. If the ideal is good enough, any worse of a listening environment shouldn't impact the quality of the music enough that you wouldn't want to listen to it. Sometimes you just have to accept some of the flaws you hear on bad headphones, because maybe they're just that bad. You'll get that sense at the moment your ears become objective. It's not easy though, so don't stress over it.

Edited April 4, 2014 by timaeus222

[Chimpazilla]

Are you stalking this thread, timaeus? You should have joined the compo! I was sorta hoping you would anyway.

[timaeus222]

But I don't have a treated room. >_> That and time.

[Chimpazilla]

But I don't have a treated room. >_>

So??? Some of the people here are singing into their cell phones. NO EXCUSE.

edit: You might wanna relax your standards a bit for, well, everything.

edit again: Maybe a little bit less bolding would be good, too.

and another edit: You seem to have time to write some fairly long and detailed posts, time that could have been spent on singing instead.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Chimpazilla

[timaeus222]

So??? Some of the people here are singing into their cell phones. NO EXCUSE.

edit: You might wanna relax your standards a bit for, well, everything.

I like my standards though. It's who I am. I can relax them for other people, but for me I like them where they are.

[MindWanderer]

As for mixing da vocals it wouldn't even be bad to just slap dry vocals on top, peeps need to avoid using too much reverb and recording too far away and picking up cruddy room sound. Not POINTING FINGERS at anyone just saying in general, that's some good stuff to be weary of.

While I can really only speak for myself, I think this is probably a common sentiment: point the fingers. We're here to improve. I overdid the reverb, I'll own that. And my microphone sucks, and I'm not willing to shell out for a better one until I develop the chops to make one worthwhile, but that means I'll need to spend more time filtering out background noise.

I'll assume those tips were aimed in my general direction, at least in part, and thank you for them.

[timaeus222]

and another edit: You seem to have time to write some fairly long and detailed posts, time that could have been spent on singing instead.

Let's take it to church! (because I do that already )

[Brandon Strader]

While I can really only speak for myself, I think this is probably a common sentiment: point the fingers. We're here to improve. I overdid the reverb, I'll own that. And my microphone sucks, and I'm not willing to shell out for a better one until I develop the chops to make one worthwhile, but that means I'll need to spend more time filtering out background noise.

I'll assume those tips were aimed in my general direction, at least in part, and thank you for them.

If it helps you I am glad but they really weren't aimed at you... at risk of sounding even MOAR awful than I already had with those crits, I haven't listened to the entries since the day they came out and I don't quite remember them. It's just a common sound that a lot of people get so I thought I'd make a note here

[timaeus222]

If it helps you I am glad but they really weren't aimed at you... at risk of sounding even MOAR awful than I already had with those crits, I haven't listened to the entries since the day they came out and I don't quite remember them. It's just a common sound that a lot of people get so I thought I'd make a note here

Yeah, reverb is technically pretty tough. I've always been adhering to the advice from zircon to mix drier than you prefer, because headphones often have more reverb than the optimal amount (possibly to compensate and make them sound like a room).

If you're on headphones, mix it a little drier than you would prefer, because most people tend to mix in too much reverb on headphones.

I ended up just getting the DT-880's and I heard a pretty large difference in the reverb amount in comparison to the Grados. I still liked the amount, but there was suddenly more clarity in everything I ever listened to. That's how big a difference it made.

Edited April 4, 2014 by timaeus222

[WillRock]

Yeah, reverb is technically pretty tough. I've always been adhering to the advice from zircon to mix drier than you prefer, because headphones often have more reverb than the optimal amount (possibly to compensate and make them sound like a room).

I ended up just getting the DT-880's and I heard a pretty large difference in the reverb amount in comparison to the Grados. I still liked the amount, but there was suddenly more clarity in everything I ever listened to. That's how big a difference it made.

I consider myself a bit of a reverb whore, and I'd say that the issue with reverb is that it sounds great but its shockingly easy to oversaturate because what sounds great on a solo instrument won't sound great in the mix. You mix every track at 50% wetness, your whole track sounds like its written in a massive church. As far as it goes, you should aim for room effects to not be too noticeable because you're trying to emulate a room sound, which is natural.

Also, in regards to "bad headphones repping mixing properly" I believe that you should try and get a mix sounding as good as possible on every system you can. Hopefully goes without saying, but if you're only making it sound good on one system because you don't think the other is representing how most people will hear your music, you aren't doing it properly

Anyways, BACK TO VOTING YOU MANGY CURS!

[Jason Covenant]

I like my standards though. It's who I am. I can relax them for other people, but for me I like them where they are.

Going to have to agree with timaeus222 here. It's unreasonable to expect people to submit material they are personally uncomfortable with. Also, timaeus222, you can use a mic-box. They cost nothing to make or can be bought for $30-$40.

I tried to submit something for the first week, but, Safety Dance. I like the song for listening purposes, but for singing purposes, there are few less rigid and annoying sources. I wrote lyrics to try to make it interesting and developed a new voice for it, but that still wasn't enough to motivate me to actually sing it. So, when the night before the deadline came, I chose sleep instead. Maybe this coming new week will be different.

[Palpable]

I will try to vote this weekend, even though I did not have time to make an entry myself.

I was trying to do the reverse, actually. In the wide, wide world, most people are listening to music on crap headphones, speakers, etc. So it's critical to listen to your own mixes on crap headphones before submitting, which I neglected to do. If your mix doesn't sound good on cheap headphones, then your good ones may be doing you more harm than good.

In other words, I believe that cheap headphones always represent mixes "properly."

This is a strange line of thought. I think I get what you are trying to say, which is that you should try to make your mix sound good on a wide variety of sources. I agree with that. Crap headphones/speakers alter the sound in different ways, so it's not as if something that sounds good on your crap headphones is necessarily going to sound good on my crap headphones. Good headphones/speakers are good because they give a more accurate representation of the sound, and as such, I think you're gonna get a better mix if you make your song sound good listening on good headphones vs. good listening on crap headphones, assuming it's a choice between one or the other. But listening on both is even better. Wow, I said "crap" a lot.

[Brandon Strader]

What bothers me is you can make a mix sound amazing on an expensive set of headphones, then listen on a regular set, and it falls apart. Seems like if EVERYONE owned the same expensive headphones, music would be amazing in general.

[Chimpazilla]

Going to have to agree with timaeus222 here. It's unreasonable to expect people to submit material they are personally uncomfortable with.

Actually, that's not what I meant at all when I posted to timaeus, although it appears I was bashing him about "not having a treated room," I was actually ribbing him rather hard about his post which went on and on and ON AND ON about specific headphones and related issues, using lots of bolded words. I'm fine with him not feeling comfortable enough with his mic setup to sing, and he in fact has NOT joined the compo.

Seems we've degenerated into headphone talk anyway... *sigh*

I'm sorry you didn't like Safety Dance enough to submit something, hopefully we will hear from you next round!

[Brandon Strader]

http://streetcarnage.com/blog/what-was-the-most-annoying-song-of-the-1980s/

For the record I would LOVE to sing Enjoy The Silence if that's next, while we're on the topic of mildly annoying old songs

[timaeus222]

What bothers me is you can make a mix sound amazing on an expensive set of headphones, then listen on a regular set, and it falls apart. Seems like if EVERYONE owned the same expensive headphones, music would be amazing in general.

Now, you see, that's where personal standards come in. Ironically, while my standards are high, here's how I respond in the situation you're describing:

I write something, mix it on my best headphones.

I listen to it on store-brand skullcandies that should sound "not good" (not bad in particular, but average). Bassier than normal, plus a little resonance in the upper highs. I accept the fact that these skullcandies are bassier than normal below 100Hz and accept/ignore that very minor resonance, and I evaluate how much more bassy is it than I expect on earphones like those. If it's within my tolerance based on the new "scale", so to speak, I don't have a problem with it. In other words, I'm just going to quote myself, as that rather lengthy post, as Kristina called it, was rather insightful, IMO, and was surprisingly not fully internalized.

Checking on just the bad [headphones] is clearly not allowing you to hear exactly what you can hear on better ones, and the only purpose they could serve is to reveal the common listening experience (which is what [MindWanderer] had said), not the ideal listening experience. If the ideal is good enough, any worse of a listening environment shouldn't impact the quality of the music enough that you wouldn't want to listen to it. Sometimes you just have to accept some of the flaws you hear on bad headphones, because maybe they're just that bad.

So before you just say "Oh wow, these headphones I really love make my song sound great, and now these common headphones make them sound terrible! Now I have to majorly redo some production!", look back, evaluate what you can expect out of those bad headphones, and "convert to its new scale". Generally, you'll find that you were imposing your standards too seriously.

Also, my standards are where they are 'cause Quantitative Analysis. 'nuff said.

Edited April 4, 2014 by timaeus222

[Chimpazilla]

Please guys, this is not the headphone thread. There is in fact a headphone thread. In fact there are are most likely several headphone threads under the Music Composition forum. Please discuss any lengthy issues you have there. Can we get back to singing compo business?

[timaeus222]

Please guys, this is not the headphone thread. There is in fact a headphone thread. In fact there are are most likely several headphone threads under the Music Composition forum. Please discuss any lengthy issues you have there. Can we get back to singing compo business?

If it's fruitful discussion, what harm does it do? We (you) can get back to singing business, but tangents can be fun. Besides, that headphone thread is recommendations, not discussion of perception.

Edited April 5, 2014 by timaeus222

[Argle]

you should do a cannibal corpse song next.

[kitty]

Soooo I think my previous post got drowned out in headphones talk. Is it still possible to sign up for future weeks or will that mess up planning/logistics? (If it is possible I'd like to be marked down as a participant.)