Marble Clouds in Azure Skies (Sonic 3)

[Jamphibious]

Sources:

Marble Garden Zone:

Azure Lake Zone:

NEWEST VERSION (05/05/2014): https://app.box.com/s/3o469xr4mhysnv0dufwy

Things I've touched up:

- Kick and Snare on their own mixer channels.

- Improved the snare sound, I think it sounds better and more snappy now.

- Brought out the kick more.

- Brought down the bass instrument just a hair.

- Attempted to add a bit of bass and mid presence throughout.

- Altered the attack of the fake FM brass slightly.

- Keyboard has slightly more presence.

- "Tinny" lead around 0:41 has unison voices added with some slight detune and very minor tweaks.

- Overall EQ tweaks to tone down the higher frequencies.

Link to Original Remix: https://soundcloud.com/jordan-reed/marble-clouds-in-azure-skies

Alright, so here's a track I did recently in the SZRC! I was pretty happy with how this one turned out, but I'd like to get some opinions on the overall arrangement and production. Aside from the small fixes I mentioned, I haven't thought of anything else to touch up. But if something sticks out, let me know!

Thanks!

Edited July 6, 2014 by XPRTNovice

[timaeus222]

Nice FM bass! I didn't think it was too loud except wherever it was meant to be the focus (e.g. no lead sound playing). That can easily be fixed with velocities (I presume it has that velocity sensitivity). Generally, the mixing is pretty good, but as the saying goes, everyone has room for improvement. One step up from here, I'd say, is either getting the part of the EQ having to do with the keypresses of the E. Piano to come through (low-mids warmth, and if it's of the tines, upper mids sparkle), layering on a warmer E. Piano sound, or both; then notching the FM bass at the same frequencies would accommodate that.

The non-drums are pretty consistent with their general loudness across the board, and while the snare could be stronger with parallel compression and/or transient shaping, it's the kick that is coming through less than enough to match the loudness of everything else. See if boosting near 4000Hz adds that click you need to get it to pierce through the mix, perhaps also increasing the gain on any compression it has, and bringing slightly downwards any sort of threshold/ceiling you have on the sidechaining I'm presuming you have on the kick (and maybe snare) to the bass to let the kick and snare come through a little more.

Small thing, but the lead at 0:41 on the slight left sounds a bit tinny, and maybe some slight thickening of the timbre might give it more body (e.g. detuning). It sounds more tinny and a bit shrill on the higher notes, especially at 1:01. The guitar lead at 1:32 could be brought a little bit more upfront, as it's the only lead there. I thought its performance could have had more emotion, but it's solid enough as it is. 2:13 is entirely a personal thing, but maybe the ping pong delay you already had on the reverse cymbal could be louder just for that part, for a more ambient effect (simply automating the delay's echo volume could do it).

Great arrangement. I love the effective syncopations and the general jazz fusion / synthpop vibe. As it is right now, it's probably going to get YESed with some very minor reservations. The arrangement carries it far, and I believe touching up on some of the above points would bring it to either a very enthusiastic YES or a DP!

Edited June 9, 2014 by timaeus222

[Jamphibious]

Cool cool, thanks for the mixing advice. I'll be honest, the drums are a Kontakt kit and I have them routed to one mixer channel. A terrible practice I know! I'll separate the snare and kick to their own tracks to give them their own love to make 'em sound nicer in the mix. And yeah, in the 2nd verse you can hear how the bass is lighter because I have the velocities toned down, so I'll focus on the velocities throughout the rest of the mix as well to make it sit slightly farther back when it needs to. I'm not a very good guitar player which is why it seems to lack emotion when I play But I can work on it a bit and maybe get it to sound a little nicer. I was on a time crunch for the competition, after all. I'll look into the tinny lead, I agree that it could use some more presence.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm glad you enjoyed the arrangement aspect of the mix. I'll work on polishing this up a little more!

[jnWake]

I love this remix! If I were important in this site I'd direct post it immediately

Anyway, for some useful "criticism", I feel the backing e. piano could use a bit more punch. Maybe editing it so that the attack is a bit more noticeable would help. Also, as timaeus said, the kick could stand out more.

I have no problem with your guitar playing by the way, but I guess it could use more vibratto in the longer notes.

[Argle]

I wish there was a little more low end on the mix, there's not quite enough for me. Very clean mix, you won't have any problems with that, but almost a little too tidy in the low end.

Pseudo-Mod Review:

What in fuck's name is a pseudo-mod review? Also, speculating about whether it would get sent to the panel or not, and the DEGREE of panel criticism, is just plain silly

[timaeus222]

I wish there was a little more low end on the mix, there's not quite enough for me. Very clean mix, you won't have any problems with that, but almost a little too tidy in the low end.

What in fuck's name is a pseudo-mod review? Also, speculating about whether it would get sent to the panel or not, and the DEGREE of panel criticism, is just plain silly

I'm actually pretty strongly believing that. V_V This would pass as it is on the basis of arrangement, that's a given, but there are certainly some nitpicks which are bound to show up that will resemble the things that I said. Some will be downplayed to a certain extent, others will be emphasized to a certain extent, but all of what I said just then were pretty minor nitpicks, at least to me. I think it makes total sense for this to at the very least get judged as successful enough in the panel, because there are some very neat harmonic additions and meter changes to the source tunes that contributed to the flow and cohesiveness of the arrangement. There's plenty to like here.

In other words, Y U NO LET ME BE NICE?

Edited March 28, 2014 by timaeus222

[WillRock]

I wish there was a little more low end on the mix

This, basically. The bass is loud but the mix itself is lacking some bass and mid presence, which gives the track a slightly tinny sound. Arrangement feels a little liberal at points (where is azure lake? I remixed that source and I don't hear it here)

Negatives aside, very groovy, its definitely an intricate piece of funk jam luvin' and its a lot of fun, and the ideas you've thrown on what I hear of the source are great. Its just fixing up the low end and making the source a little bit more prominent and you're good to go imo!

Also, not getting "pseudo-mod" review either. Are you saying you should be a mod? Feels a bit attention seeking to me, I'd be careful not to annoy the ACTUAL mods if that was just a silly joke

Edited March 28, 2014 by WillRock

[timaeus222]

Also, not getting "pseudo-mod" review either. Are you saying you should be a mod? Feels a bit attention seeking to me, I'd be careful not to annoy the ACTUAL mods if that was just a silly joke

Nahhhh, it's just my way of saying "here's my review in case a mod doesn't show up as quickly as you'd like".

[Jamphibious]

A few people have said its hard to hear the Azure Lake hear. I dunno, when writing it I felt it was fairly clear, though I guess I can see how it might be less obvious since I do change the rhythm of it as well as harmonize it differently.

In the source, the little descending melody at 0:14 - 0:16 is used throughout my arrangement. At 0:31, 0:55, and again at 1:55 I use it, with different harmonies and such but still. I snuck it in at the end of a few phrases, though those are the much more liberal uses of it. I thought the chorus-ish section at 1:05 was a pretty clear use of Azure Lake though. I'm using the melody of Azure Lake starting at 0:40, harmonizing it differently and with a different rhythm, but the melody is still quite intact and I felt it was pretty recognizable. The last 4 notes / chords of the song are also using Azure Lakes little descending melody. The Marble Garden is much more clear at times I'll admit, but yeah!

Should get around to fixing this up soon, thanks everyone for all the comments and such!

[timaeus222]

I hope this gets done, man, because I actually really liked it. Jazz Fusion is very fun to listen to when it's all polished and stuff, so I think this'll be a hit. =)

[Jamphibious]

I hope this gets done, man, because I actually really liked it. Jazz Fusion is very fun to listen to when it's all polished and stuff, so I think this'll be a hit. =)

Haha no worries, I WILL work on it in the near future. I just had a hard drive crash on my music (only the OS though, luckily none of my important content was lost) plus I have a recital later this week to prepare for. I'll be able to devote much more time to music after that.

[Garrett Williamson]

Oh this is actually really cool. Just now hearing this.

I'd say to "imperfect" the drums. Like turn down the quantize level just a tiny bit. When drums are ever so slightly imperfect, they sound more real and honestly it normally sounds tighter when it's not so perfectly tight. But it's just a tad. Unless you're doing a Hip Hop or RnB song where they will intentionally make it a bit "out of the pocket," don't overdo it, unless you'd be going for a messier rock track (and those sound good too, but I don't think that would work with this anyway... anyway, rabbit trailing).

With that in mind, I like the drum plugin you're using and I don't know how far down you are with the mixing process, but definitely compress that snare and kick more to give them more of a snap.

Love that bass and keys and the guitars and synths and all. Really cool stuff, man. This is really neat.

Also, turn up the bass some. I think I'm reading that down below, but definitely EQ up the low end a bit. Maybe not actually turn up the bass, but simply bring up that low end (of course, "simply" isn't always the right word hahaha)

[Rozovian]

I'm more annoyed by how some of the highest sounds carve into my eardrums. Tone down any offending frequencies on your synth leads, just be careful not to just muffle them. Find a good balance. I'm wondering to what extend you actually have to mess around in the high registers, if the track would sound better if you dropped half the instruments an octave. That's just me speculating, it might sound terrible.

Marble Garden isn't hard to hear. I'm finding the Azure Lake melody in what I guess is your chorus-y bit (0:55) obvious after a few listens to the source and the remix. I'm okay with the source usage.

Super fun arrangement, flows well, and really hard to to groove along. I'd be content with the game-y sound you've got and call it done, but if you're going for realism you've got more work to do.

[Jamphibious]

Update!

https://app.box.com/s/3o469xr4mhysnv0dufwy

So, I've touched up some things, as per the suggestions in this thread. Here's what I've done:

- Kick and Snare on their own mixer channels.

- Improved the snare sound, I think it sounds better and more snappy now.

- Brought out the kick more.

- Brought down the bass instrument just a hair.

- Attempted to add a bit of bass and mid presence throughout.

- Altered the attack of the fake FM brass slightly.

- Keyboard has slightly more presence.

- "Tinny" lead around 0:41 has unison voices added with some slight detune and very minor tweaks.

- Overall EQ tweaks to tone down the higher frequencies.

I didn't go through to de-quantize the drums, I'm not sure if I will. While part of me does want to get some more realism out of this, I'm pretty happy with how it sounds overall. Moving forward I'll definitely consider how to get a more realistic sound for a style like this, but I'm about ready to wrap this track up and press on. Though I just subbed a mix so I'll have to wait a few weeks to sub this anyways, so please feel free to let me know of any more touch ups I could do!

Thanks again to everyone, you've all been extremely helpful.

[RoBKTA]

Thumbs up for that FM bass dude, is among the best ones I have ever heard.

Also great arrangement (Y) keep it up!

[timaeus222]

Sounds nice and full, man! The production hits it right in that there sweet spot. I do believe the low end was much improved since the last version too.

[Rozovian]

A few whiny bright ear-stabbing sounds, sometimes the whole instrument, sometimes just its sustain or interactions with other sounds (eg intro, 0:55, 1:11). The fm lead is especially annoying, it has some really piercing overtones you might want to dull.

Sounds a bit empty, spectrum-wise. Seems to lack something in the mid range. Some of the time there's a nice keyboard/synth there filling out. Whatever backing stuff I keep hearing occasionally, bring those out a little more. You can afford to drop the lead levels a little too, they're already bright enough to cut through, they don't need to be this loud.

Feels a little too fast, like it's a couple of bpm too high. Could just be that I haven't fully woken up just yet, so all music sounds too fast. Not sure.

Bass' got the groove.

Already covered source usage in a previous post. No problem there.

I find myself too bothered by the balance between leads, mid-range backing, and the rest of the track. It's like the levels are exaggerated, the soft stuff is too soft and the loud stuff too loud.