Getting music to be as loud as possible - How is it done?

[nOkbient]

Ok, right off the bat, I am not intending for this to be a discussion on whether or not louder is better. I have my own opinions on that as I'm sure you do as well. My question is more on the technical aspect of getting music to be loud.

I listen to Pandora on my way to school in the morning. When I create music, I've tried to make it as loud as I could. I wouldn't say I'm a professional post-production expert, but I know how to mix and master well enough, or at least I'd like to think so. Yesterday, a Deadmau5 track started playing on Pandora, and it was MUCH louder than anything I could have made. I had to turn the volume down to about 20% of what I normally have it at.

Even with compression, various mastering effects, EQing, etc, I've never been able to make anything as loud as this was and not have it clip or have compression/limiting artifacts. It was loud and dynamic.

Now, I understand that it might not be reasonable to make all music sound this way, but purely from a technical production standpoint, how is this sort of thing done in an extreme example like this?

[Skrypnyk]

Proper compression, various mastering effects, and EQing. Crank a limiter on the master channel.

Maybe someone can chime in about different vsts behaving differently when it comes to one being better than the other, or if one can't perform as well (fruity compressor vs fruity limiter), but if you have a balanced EQ, and you compress the master channel, you'll get a louder sound.

[theshaggyfreak]

This can be a very in depth subject and a lot of people have various opinions how how this sort of thing is done or done well. I always tend to point people to Mastering Audio by Bob Katz ( http://goo.gl/6t3TQ5 ). There really is a lot to be learned in this book and I consider it essential reading for anyone who is interested in making their stuff sound better.

For me, it came down to the fact that I used to mix too loud. Doing so goes give you enough headroom to work with when it comes time for mastering. So, I tend to mix no hotter than -8db to -6db. Even with that being the case, I try to mix more with my ears than what I'm seeing visually on the screen. Prior to doing so, I had a lot of the same problems that you're currently encountering.

I wish I could give more precise instructions on this sort of thing but I always find it difficult to get too deep into specifics on the subject. If you haven't read Mastering Audio, I highly suggest checking it out.

As far as plugins I use, I mostly stick with Melda Productions stuff these days. Their plugins are quite nice and they're not too expensive.

[timaeus222]

From my perspective, it has a LOT to do with the limiter you use and the "mastering" (more like finalizing, rather) you do to the final result. Some people like to do the approach where you mix at, say, -1 dB, and apply a transparent or gluing compression effect to bring it up to 0 dB (I prefer transparent usually). With that method, you can go "above" 0 dB in terms of the peaking dB on average and how it would have been greater than 0 dB had there not been a limiter. The gluing compression would be how I would suggest doing it if the loudness makes sense for the given context, though I personally mix near 0 dB already and don't often use gluing compression to even anything out too majorly. I think that if you try and mix at a peaking dB below -3, you might have to compress quite a bit to get near 0 dB, and that could bring out unwanted compression artifacts. You also never said in what way you compressed the result; maybe it's not that good of a compressor? Maybe you started too loud before compressing? Maybe your Master signal chain has an issue?

What you should NOT do is raise the volume of everything WITHOUT using compression until you get it as loud as you want. That will begin to attenuate higher frequencies slightly and squash transients, reducing the crispness of the final result. There's also a greater chance of clipping from the limiter.

The two limiters that I would suggest for this loudness approach due to their high tolerances are TLs-Pocket Limiter (free) and FabFilter Pro-L (commercial). This loud remix uses TLs, and this loud piece uses FabFilter, but I wouldn't consider either of these too loud. I would actually consider

the loudest piece I would ever listen to, if you want a reference. (Madeon's 'Finale' is rather loud too, but on my system I think it's too loud.)

I've gotten Fruity Limiter to act pretty decently tolerant, but I would still favor TLs over it. I think the difference between TLs and FabFilter is more subtle, but I would suggest you try both if you get the chance.

Edited January 14, 2015 by timaeus222

[Argle]

If all else fails, straight up clipping will help ya out.

[WillRock]

I like a wide stereo image, so I tend to do the following... Compression, Stereo Imager, all that jazz... plus limiter. If its not loud enough at that point, put on this stuff after the limiter in your chain... another stereo Imager, MOAR compressor, AND ANUFER LIMITAR and BOOM instant LOUD. MAAASTURING IZ FUUUUUN.

[theshaggyfreak]

My master chain tends to be Spectro Spectral Editor / Melda MEqualizer / Melda MCompressor / Melda MLimiter. I do all of this in Wavelab Elements since I feel that I have more precise control with editing.

While I try to get everything EQed properly in my final mix, there's usually some minor change that I like to make during the mastering process. Between Specro and MEqualizer, I have a pretty good level of control over those things. MComp is a really nice all around compressor that also has a good level of control. I mostly have the Mlimiter at the end of the chain to keep out any small peaks that might happen. I try to be very careful with compression so that things are louder without killing dynamics. This isn't too difficult of a job if I do my part at creating sonic space for each instrument in the song.

Spectro is relatively cheap at $25 or $50 depending on the license you need. The Melda stuff is part of their Free Effects bundle which has a premium side to it. If you pay for the upgrade to the package, you get some extra functionality.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Simple answer to this question is by using some compression and cranking up the gain with a brickwall limiter. That will make it "loud" and should do so without clipping.

Though honestly, just use a modest amount of brickwall limiting and crank up the volume on your device. The loudness war is bullshit.

It's also interesting that you mention Deadmau5, as I watched an interview with him the other day where he was complaining about dubstep being too loud and squashed...yet his music is just as loud.

Edited January 14, 2015 by AngelCityOutlaw

[timaeus222]

I should also mention that most of the time for finalizing, I end up doing a slight dip in the low mids (near 300 Hz-ish, down about 0.4~0.8 dB) and high passing near 20~28 Hz or so, depending on the deepness of the samples I'm using. I wouldn't think many people need to or actually hear or feel anything below 30 Hz, and since so many instruments coincide at the low-mids, the combination of these two EQ edits should add a little extra headroom to the mix before the loudening processing (maybe about 0.8 dB or so, which is fairly helpful IMO) without actually reducing the heaviness of the mix all that much. It especially helps if you can see in a spectral analyzer that you have frequencies going below 20 Hz (which I often have to look for in synthesized sounds using comb filters, for example); in FL Studio, you can look at exactly 20 Hz, and if you see a somewhat bright vertical highlight directly on there, there's something there below 20 Hz that might be 'compressing' the final result enough to squish the waveform in some way. But that doesn't happen often, so hey, maybe nothing much will be different.

Edited January 15, 2015 by timaeus222

[Rozovian]

It starts with mixing. You can only do so much with the output (the "mastering", as people like to call it despite actual mastering not being that at all). You have to mix it loud. That means you cant just clip the output for a loud overall sound, because that'll sound terribad. Instead, you should seek to remove superfluous elements of the mix. Frequencies that overlap and that listeners don't need for every track. An example of this would be start the track with a low pad, but high-passing the pad channel one the bass and drums kick in. For the rest of the track, the pad doesn't have those same lows it had in the beginning, but if you time the filter/eq automation right with the kick and bass, the listener won't actually notice.

Actually, it starts with sound design. You can have a synth with all kinds of spiky little things messing with the compressors, unnecessary lows pushing the headroom and not really doing anything useful, frequency overlap with other instruments... Lots of stuff like that. The solution you'd likely want to go for is to add effects to mitigate these problems, but finding their source in the synths themselves would be much better. The same goes for samples. You can layer them in good way and bad ways, process them in good ways and bad ways, have them interact in good ways and bad ways. The same goes for recorded audio, where a good recording will need less effects than a bad one. The goes for just about anything. Solve the problem as early as possible instead of trying to mitigate it later on. If not earlier in the process, then earlier in the effects chain.

Actually, it starts with arrangement. Your arrangement itself can have a lot of overlap and clutter. You might not need six different pads playing at the same time. You might not need such an intricate hihat pattern. You might not need hihat, shaker, ride, noise percussion, filtered drum loops all at the same time (even though this describes some of my tracks rather well). You might not need more than two hardpanned rhythm guitars. You might not need four melodies playing on top of each other, and you probably shouldn't write them all in the same octave.

There are, throughout the process, lots of small (and big) things you can do to make stuff louder.

[Flexstyle]

I'm just going to link to that last post whenever anyone asks me how to improve their mixes. Well said, Rozo!

[Rozovian]

I'm just going to link to that last post whenever anyone asks me how to improve their mixes. Well said, Rozo!

If only I would practice what I preach, too.