Avatar of Justice Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Vista is an OSX knockoff with extra DRM. Great, just what I wanted, all my memory taken up monitoring my actions to make sure I'm not doing anything illegal. Shouldn’t all this memory be put to better use, to monitor things like personal information, ss#, credit card #s to make sure they are not obtained by a hacker etc. I dual boot and I'll stick with XP for my illegal endeavors. I will probably upgrade to Leopard when the final release comes available. I think a better use of your memory would be for caching harddrive data. That way your larger programs load up really fast when you run them, because the data just sits in your RAM instead of being loaded off your much slower harddrive. I have 1GB of RAM on my Linux system, and because of all the extra RAM Linux doesn't need, things like OpenOffice stay cached in my RAM for days and load up instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 The "eating of the ram" might not be an issue when 4-8 GB of RAM becomes standard in computers to come. Right now the standard computer today comes out with 1-2 GB of RAM. Its possible, but people are alreadying bitching about upgrading their specs just to run vista. Who honestly expects the average person to have 4 gigs in their computer within the next year or two years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Vista is an OSX knockoff with extra DRM. Probably, but it still has that lovely feature of having all the other software I (and many other people) actually give a shit about. I'm not a musician and I don't make movies, but I am a bit of a gamer. And as far as other apps and utilities go, I prefer the "real deal" over knockoffs, but I have to give credit to MacOS for actually having many good alternatives. Unfortunately, that's more than I can say for *nix. Plus, I'm not a huge fan of Mac OS. It's a little too smooth, I don't like how the menus and windows are arranged, and the dock doesn't really work for me as a shortcut bar. I much prefer Windows' combo of quicklaunch and start menu or Gnome's menu interface. Great, just what I wanted, all my memory taken up monitoring my actions to make sure I'm not doing anything illegal. Bullshit. There is absolutely nothing monitoring you unless you use the parental controls. In fact, let me give you a screenshot of my RAM readout. Hell, I'll even turn on Windows Sidebar, and I don't even usually run that: And the rest: One note: pretty much everything on that list that begins with "eh" (or e-home) are related to Media Center, which I am running so I can listen to the news in the background. So, which one of those is the one that monitors my personal information? Google each one of those. If you find it, I will paypal you five dollars. This is ~600mb of my 1gb being used, with Media Center, Internet Explorer, Sidebar, CCC, etc. running. Despite this, I don't really have many speed problems, and my games run nearly as well as in XP (especially now). Shouldn’t all this memory be put to better use, to monitor things like personal information, ss#, credit card #s to make sure they are not obtained by a hacker etc. IE7 has a phishing filter. Does that help? Anyhow, it's no secret that so far I've been pretty well impressed with Vista, especially since several of the problems I have had with it have been solved (the biggest of which being OpenGL). I still have some annoyances, but overall I would recommend Home Premium to anyone who wants a smoother, better looking OS than XP but still wants at least 97% of their favorite programs (and 100% of their media) to work. Plus, if you're a TV guy, Media Center is probably the best PVR software I've used so far. If you just want DX10, wait a couple years and pick up Home Basic. Doesn't look as pretty, but it's still cleaned up considerably and will work pretty smoothly on fairly low-end computers. I don't think you'll get the neat 3d chess game, though. To be honest, if it wasn't free, I wouldn't switch over to Vista. I'd stick with XP, possibly with a new desktop theme just to keep it fresh. However, since it was free, I would say the switch has been an interesting experiment, and one that has paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelebes Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Its possible, but people are alreadying bitching about upgrading their specs just to run vista. Who honestly expects the average person to have 4 gigs in their computer within the next year or two years? I remember about complaining about upgrading my computer so it could run XP. I was running 2000 Pro with 128 MB of RAM at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggeorge759 Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I have a question does iTunes work in Vista I'm just curious cause although i'm a windows user i prefer iTunes to WMP because itunes has an easier interface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Yep, iTunes works flawlessly. I prefer WMP11, but I use iTunes occasionally because I have some music that won't play in anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_D Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 The "eating of the ram" might not be an issue when 4-8 GB of RAM becomes standard in computers to come. Right now the standard computer today comes out with 1-2 GB of RAM. You know, because of this comment I just had to look up how much RAM Vista will support...and I must say I'm surprised. Here is my source. First, don't get a 32-bit edition: Windows Vista Starter edition is the least demanding of the operating system's versions, and the 32-bit variant delivers support for a maximum of 1 GB RAM. The 32-bit editions of Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Enterprise and Ultimate, all support a maximum of 4 GB of RAM. As you can see, there isn't a 32-bit Vista edition that supports more than 4 GB of RAM, and the Starter edition supports even less than XP (unless I am mistaken, XP can support 2 GB).Now, the 64-bit versions all support at least 8 GB of RAM, with the most taxing supporting an enormous 128 GB: But it will take no less than 128 GB of RAM in order to satiate x64 Vista Business, Enterprise and Ultimate.That's insane! I'm sure eventually normal consumers will have dozens of gigabytes of RAM, but this seems like a ridiculous amount of RAM for a PC. Better to be prepared, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 As you can see, there isn't a 32-bit Vista edition that supports more than 4 GB of RAM, and the Starter edition supports even less than XP (unless I am mistaken, XP can support 2 GB). The Starter edition isn't intended for the US/Canada/Europe/Australia consumer market though. Much like Windows XP Starter Edition, this edition will be limited to emerging markets such as Colombia, India, Thailand, and Indonesia, mainly to offer a legal alternative to using unauthorized copies. It will not be available in the United States, Canada, Europe, or Australia. It will have many significant limitations, such as only allowing a user to launch three applications with a user interface at once, not accepting incoming network connections, a physical memory limit of 256 MB, and will run only in 32-bit mode. Additionally, only AMD's Duron, Sempron and Geode processors, and Intel's Celeron and Pentium III processors are supported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_D Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 ^ I see. I didn't really look into it, just took it at face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/103453/vista-drm-cracked.html Just in, the DRM has been cracked but the exploit has not been released to the public yet. Probably the first in a series of exploits in the years to come. I find it amusing but only because I have a Mac. Microsoft should be pissed. Probably, but it still has that lovely feature of having all the other software I (and many other people) actually give a shit about. I'm not a musician and I don't make movies, but I am a bit of a gamer. And as far as other apps and utilities go, I prefer the "real deal" over knockoffs, but I have to give credit to MacOS for actually having many good alternatives. Unfortunately, that's more than I can say for *nix. You admit that that Vista is a shameless OSX knockoff. But you "prefer the 'real deal' over knockoffs" when it comes to applications. Why would'nt you apply the same principle with your OS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar of Justice Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 You know, because of this comment I just had to look up how much RAM Vista will support...and I must say I'm surprised. Here is my source.First, don't get a 32-bit edition: And don't get a 64-bit edition unless you own a 64-bit machine. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but 32-bit OSs can't address over 4GB RAM due to the inherent 32-bit'ness of the hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/103453/vista-drm-cracked.htmlJust in, the DRM has been cracked but the exploit has not been released to the public yet. Probably the first in a series of exploits in the years to come. I find it amusing but only because I have a Mac. Microsoft should be pissed If anyone should be pissed it would be the movie houses that wanted DRM/HDCP in the first place. The sort of thing that will be in your beloved OS X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_D Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I don't understand why the media industry keeps insisting on DRM. It hurts the non-pirating customers, and hasn't yet been able to stop the pirates. IMHO, there will NEVER be a usable DRM scheme that both stops pirates and allows non-pirates to actually use their media. It just isn't possible. No matter what they come up with, if hackers want it bad enough they will get it. Plus, the harder they make it to crack, the more glory is in it for the hackers (think of how well-known muslix64 is now for cracking the BluRay / HD-DVD protection). It's just a pointless endeavor that increases cost and decreases legitimate users' freedoms. /off-topic rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 You admit that that Vista is a shameless OSX knockoff. But you "prefer the 'real deal' over knockoffs" when it comes to applications. Why would'nt you apply the same principle with your OS? "Probably" is not an outright admission that Vista is an OSX knockoff, but you'd have to be blind not to admit that Vista took a LOT from MacOS. But, in a few ways, I'm glad they did. What Vista ripped off (or borrowed, or whatever you want to call it) from Mac OS were things that were nice to have, but not important enough to make me switch over (stuff like visual style, the search bar, the widgets, the chess game, etc). Sure, if I switched over to OSX in the XP era I would gain those things, but I would also lose the ability to use many of my favorite applications and games in Windows, which is pretty much priority #1 when I'm choosing an OS. Sure, there are workarounds and knockoffs of those programs, but they're generally worse or more complicated than their Windows originals, which pretty much negates the OS advantage for me. Don't get me wrong, Mac has a lot of GREAT apps, just none that I will ever realistically have a use for. Steam and ePSXe, however, are a different story. Also, I think I've stated the other reasons that I don't like the OS (no, the mouse isn't one of them). Vista, however, is compatible with many (if not all now) of the applications and games that I use regularly (and like) along with some Mac knockoff features, removes any advantage of switching. Especially since I already have the appropriate hardware. One note, though: aside from the nice visuals, the other "mac" ripoff features are ones that I never even use. So far I don't see a point in sidebar widgets (though I do like the concept of grouping them into a sidebar), and I've only used the search box are because it replaces the Run dialog. This is probably because I've been a Windows guy for too long, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Orange Pylon, you sound just like me before I switched about August of 2006. My buddy got a Mac and I actually got into an argument with him about it, bringing up the samepoints you had. A big selling point for me was not the OS itself but the hardware (i.e. aluminum case for macbook pro compared to plastic on most laptops.) To solve the problems you mentioned, I dual boot XP for steam and other games. The reason why Macs have trouble with games is b/c they lack the drivers Windows has. I'm hoping this is fixed in Leopard, but I doubt it. They really have no excuse with the Intel processors now, do they. I am glad your enjoying Vista though, XP is too linear and bland. From your positive experiences, in the future, if bootcamp can handle Vista, I will probably consider deleting my partion and trying Vista. Happy computing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 The reason why Macs have trouble with games is b/c they lack the drivers Windows has. I'm hoping this is fixed in Leopard, but I doubt it. They really have no excuse with the Intel processors now, do they. I'm pretty sure it's because writing any sort of program for OS X is different than Windows ( I didn't say easier/harder, just different). Most companies don't feel Mac has enough of the market to warrant having to spend the time/money and have their development teams make software for it. Personally I'd love to see more games for Mac, I have one too. it seems to be the one thing stopping a lot of people from switching, but unfortunately it presents a catch 22. Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen boot camp do an early build a Vista. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 In response to an earlier post, even the upper editions of Vista don't REQUIRE 128gb of RAM - was that the implication, or did I misunderstand something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Orange Pylon, you sound just like me before I switched about August of 2006. My buddy got a Mac and I actually got into an argument with him about it, bringing up the samepoints you had. A big selling point for me was not the OS itself but the hardware (i.e. aluminum case for macbook pro compared to plastic on most laptops.) I'll agree with you on the hardware point. If I were in the market for a new laptop, I would strongly consider a Macbook Pro. Pricy, but just about everything, inside and out, is pretty much perfect. I wouldn't be as interested in a mac desktop because, hey, I like building my own. But I would totally smear myself over a Mac laptop if given the opportunity. To solve the problems you mentioned, I dual boot XP for steam and other games. The reason why Macs have trouble with games is b/c they lack the drivers Windows has. I'm hoping this is fixed in Leopard, but I doubt it. They really have no excuse with the Intel processors now, do they. I am actually completely ignorant of how mac gaming works. Do macs use OpenGL or some other API? I am glad your enjoying Vista though, XP is too linear and bland. From your positive experiences, in the future, if bootcamp can handle Vista, I will probably consider deleting my partion and trying Vista.Happy computing Best wait for a few new video driver releases before switching that partition over to Vista. Support for OpenGL isn't perfect yet, but it's improving. If you do decide to switch, though, I can guarantee that the time spent using Vista will be better than using XP. I know of a couple people on another forum I used to post at that said Vista worked with Bootcamp, so there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen boot camp do an early build a Vista. I'll agree with you on the hardware point. If I were in the market for a new laptop, I would strongly consider a Macbook Pro. Pricy, but just about everything, inside and out, is pretty much perfect. I wouldn't be as interested in a mac desktop because, hey, I like building my own. But I would totally smear myself over a Mac laptop if given the opportunity.I am actually completely ignorant of how mac gaming works. Do macs use OpenGL or some other API? Best wait for a few new video driver releases before switching that partition over to Vista. Support for OpenGL isn't perfect yet, but it's improving. If you do decide to switch, though, I can guarantee that the time spent using Vista will be better than using XP. I know of a couple people on another forum I used to post at that said Vista worked with Bootcamp, so there's that. Thanks for the Vista bootcamp ideas, but I think I'll hold off until Apple creates drivers to work with the MacBook Pro and bootcamp works entirely. As of right now, you have to delete a mini partion of 200 mb to make Vista compatible, but in doing so you can never remove the partion. I think I'll hold off for a least 3 months or 4 months before upgrading. I def agree with you on the fact if I was to buy a desktop, Id definitly go Windows unless its one of those mac minis. I dont really see the attraction with the hardware components built into the moniter. And for the money of the G5 or whatever it is now, is not worth it. As regards to drivers. I believe Mac uses OpenGL. The reason why performance is bad, from my understanding, is the lack of drivers like ATI Catalyst for Windows. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeCrusher Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Its possible, but people are alreadying bitching about upgrading their specs just to run vista. Who honestly expects the average person to have 4 gigs in their computer within the next year or two years? Considering I have 3 gigs right now, I don't see why anyone can really bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Mac gaming sucks for its lack of right click support via only mouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Mac gaming sucks for its lack of right click support via only mouse. I severely dislike Apple's mice. Then again, I dislike a lot of mice that aren't my MX518. Those Razers look kinda slick, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I severely dislike Apple's mice. Then again, I dislike a lot of mice that aren't my MX518.Those Razers look kinda slick, though. I have an Apple Mighty Mouse. It looks nice. Its wireless through bluetooth, and its laser. Not sure on the dpi. It blows for gaming. No complaints though, it was a Christmas gift. Your right on with the razers, they look great. Ive heard about quality concerns though. I hope they get around to making a wireless one, that would def. be tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_D Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 You need one of these (2 different mice): The best mice ever, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 You need one of these (2 different mice): The best mice ever, IMHO. A mouse with a spinning rim for a scrollwheel? Sign me up, that's some pimp shit. Ya better axe somebody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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