This guy ripped MIDIs with pirated samples, and profitted

[LongeBane]

On the music scene, honesty is important, and integrity is important. Music is an art, and like any other artform, artists express themselves and wish to see their own works published under their own names.

Sam Ferarra of the ZREO team, http://www.zreomusic.com/, a project that is re orchestrating Zelda Music, has been discovered to be stealing MIDIs and adding pirated samples to them

He originally denied these claims, but according to this log, he now says it is a perfectly moral thing to do since Koji Kondo produced the originals.

Now I've seen him before, and I am aware hes been caught doing this already. But what really got me was that he has made over 900 dollars in donations and has still not given credit for this stolen material despite the fact he is finally closing down under pressure of which he does not detail on his website.

But, let's not let this crime go unpunished, dozens of MIDI artists have been hurt. Currently there is a discussion regarding his fate, held at http://htloz.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4896 Please go there and make your voice heard. His AIM is aixsyd, and his MSN is aixsyd@gmail.com

[suzumebachi]

let's not let this crime go unpunished

No offense, but what exactly do you plan to do? The MIDI authors can't sue him, since the music in question doesn't belong to them either. I read that leinatorz guy's log, and his idea of copyright law is WAY off base.

Aixsyd (9:33:19 PM): by your logic, anyone could sell Zelda MIDIs for profit

leinatorz (9:33:22 PM): yep, just like when a band does a cover song of an older band and sells it on their CD

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. We technically don't own the arrangements hosted here on OCR, R:TS, and VGMix. In order to sell them would require licensing from the original owners (usually the game companies, but in same cases the composers) which is difficult to obtain. In fact if SquareSoft or Nintendo wanted to sue us, they could. And they would probably win. But they won't, for the same reason they don't sue fan artists-- mostly because it would greatly alienate their fanbase and would be very bad for publicity should the news spread. They know we do it out of love.

Now don't get me wrong, I do not condone what this guy is accused of in any way (though it would be hypocritical of me not to note that I have been guilty of it in the past... the very distant past). At R:TS we are much more lax about quality issues and standards, but even so, we simply will NOT allow MIDI rips. The same holds true for OCR and VGMix. I'm not aprised of the details of the issue, but unfortunately it seems that this guy is operating in a gray area. His revenue apparently comes only from donations, thus he's not directly selling the songs. Therefore you can't really make the case that he's selling works that aren't his own for profit. There's not much you can do in this case but call the guy a big flaming stupid head, shun him, and go about your business.

[entropicdecay]

Kinda funny, since I used to listen to midis that sounded suspiciously like these songs (cough cough ) before I bought the Ocarina of Time soundtrack. Someone who shamelessly rips other people's work and profits off of it needs to face some swift justice. Speaking of which, I want something to come along and explode Timbaland's giant ego.

These songs really aren't anything special, anyway.

[suzumebachi]

Speaking of which, I want something to come along and explode Timbaland's giant ego.

Oh god, if only. The thing about Timbaland is he clearly IS profiting. Timbaland r badmen.

[Avatar of Justice]

People seem to think that by posting in threads and agreeing with other people they are changing the world. They are not. They are posting in threads online. The universe will not be altered by forum threads, even those which are very wry. Being outraged online is a form of entertainment, and refreshing a thread to receive a hit of consensus packs the thrill of genuine activism without requiring any sweat. I'm afraid this test may require more from the community than a sardonic jpeg.

This seems relevant....see http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/04/11 for the full post.

[Cerrax]

These songs really aren't anything special, anyway.

Yeah. Its pretty obvious that they're MIDI rips and GPO is overrated. I'd much rather listen to remixes from R:TS, OCR and VGMix instead.

[The Joker]

First off, what Timbland ripping of Janne sunni's track is completely different than using a midi someone lese made of a song that was never their's in the first place. Timbland jacked an original composition, ZREO jacked no one really, except maybe Nintendo.

I'm actually kinda sad that the site is closing down, I actually liked a few songs there. But really, when it comes right down to it, a midi is no different than, say, someone figuring out the guitar chords to a song, then posting them. Would it make much sense to tell the guy he ripped you off because he decided to post a song & had people donate, keyword donate, money because they appreciated the cleaner recordings, using the guitar tabs you figured out? Doesn't make much sense. I understand wanting a little recognition, but to outright say this guy stole something from someone else is a bit redundant.

[Villainelle]

This is the first I've heard of this, so excuse any remaining ignorance after skimming over the site and taking a quick listen...but what disturbs me most is the fact that the guy profited from this. If he released his work for free with sources credited, that would be one thing. But to solicit donations (with a rather threateningly desperate sales pitch) without crediting anyone? Whether or not it's an IP violation, it's certainly unethical even by today's loose business standards.

I'd think the most effective way to discourage this kind of thing would be to better advertise OCR, R:TS and other active remixing sites that cultivate higher quality musicianship - places where your donation actually makes a difference to the community and future of said music, rather than to some guy trying to make a buck off other people's work.

It seems pretty telling that he apparently banned someone at a site for speaking out about this, then shortly after the exposé decided to close his project.

Where does the figure of $900 in donations come from? I didn't click the PayPal link.

[Synth]

The profit part is not illegal, since it was all donations.

[suzumebachi]

but what disturbs me most is the fact that the guy profited from this.

Donations != profits.

[Barnsalot]

That's too bad.

Also, I couldn't help but quote the typo he wrote on his frontpage:

Know that your donations will not be used in vein.

>.<

[Dark Chocobo]

Okay, I think this whole thing has gone way out of hand. For one thing, no one seems to be listening to him...or caring about what he says. I've been reading the thread, and it seems that, of all the stuff in there, about two people have provided proof he stole MIDIs, and no one has provided proof he's got pirated samples. This seems to be just one big witch hunt.

Now, admittedly, the circumstances of his closing ZREO are suspicious, and I did go to the site for a while, but these guys seem to be blowing this waaaaaaay out of proportion. They're MIDIs, people. If he stole someone's creatively arranged MIDI, then yes that's stealing..otherwise, they just Zelda MIDIs, which you can find anywhere and are based off of the original sounds regardless. If ripping MIDIs is hard work, then I guess I must not be seeing this the right way, but it seems to me that anyone can make a MIDI of a song, provided they have the right programs and whatnot.

So, to sum up: Yes, the Hylia theme sounds exactly alike...provide proof of other songs, please, and provide proof of pirated samples before you start wailing on this guy.

Also, as far as I can tell, he didn't steal any money..it was all donated, and he says he'll use it to keep the website up, so he's not really gaining any personal profit from this.

[DarkeSword]

I don't think that the donations are the real issue here. It's the fact is that he used other people's work without giving them credit. Leaving legality aside, that's just something you never do if you think of yourself as an "artist."

If you use someone else's work, even if it IS a note-for-note MIDI file of a video game song, you have to give that person credit, because sequencing something by ear is not easy. It takes a lot of time to recreate something note-for-note just by listening to it. I do it all the time when I remix; I have a song playing and I'm constantly repeating two or three bars of music just to separate all of the parts.

This guy talks about the MIDIs like they're nothing special; something to the effect of "last time I checked, koji wrote those songs." He fails to recognize that sequencing a MIDI is hard work for other people. The irony is that he can't do it himself by ear, so he turns to those MIDI files for guidance.

I feel bad for the artists he ripped; this guy won't own up to what he did publicly, and he won't give credit where credit is due.

It's pretty despicable.