Newb Here - I bring questions!

[Undefined]

So, I’ve finally gotten around to actually posting after a few months of silent lurking. Video game music has always been a passion of mine (second only to videogames themselves) but it was only a year or so ago that I became interested in making my own versions of my favourite songs. Still, it wasn’t until recently that I realized just how much time/effort (and likely money) one needs to put into this in order to get any sort of decent results. I’m not discouraged by this, but it was more complicated than I had originally envisioned. I’m likely to chime in here about technicalities in the future, but for now my question is rather simple. I’m wondering, basically, what I require to make ‘good’ quality music. I know there are guides for some of these questions, but I figured this might help me more specifically.

Here’s what I’m thinking right now: I want to keep my ‘studio’ mostly software based. It’s simpler that way, and since I’m looking to do mostly orchestral stuff I was going to end up with something of that nature that anyway. Now, for the specifics...

In terms of Hardware:

Computer: Well, obviously I already have one of those. It’s decent enough, but not really built for music production. No dual/quad core, only one gig of RAM, and not really optimized in any way, shape or form. Still, it’ll suffice for now (while I’m still learning this stuff). I plan to upgrade eventually. Anything I should look for when that time comes?

Keyboard: I’m not actually a piano player, but I know a keyboard is still an important piece of music equipment. It’ll speed up the recording process I’m sure, as well as provide an easy way to test out new melodies, chords and whatnot. I do have a toy keyboard, but it doesn’t have midi, so it is only good for practise purposes. Now, I’m looking for a ‘good/great’ midi keyboard. I’m willing to spend some cash on this so that I don’t need to upgrade later. So, basically, Roland or Yamaha? What model? Do I need 88 keys? Etc.

Headphones: I’m looking for a good pair of headphones rather than a set of monitors. I do this for a number of reasons, thin walls in my house being one of them, and as I said, I want to keep things simple. I’ll probably buy a pair of monitors later on (to replace the shitty speakers I currently have) but that’s for another day. Again, any advice on this? It’s probably what I know the least about, so any advice would be appreciated.

Instruments: Well, I don’t play anything, so it would be a bit of a waste. Not really interested in the guitar either.

Anything else besides this I might need? I figure a mixer would be kind of useless since I’ll only have one keyboard, but I’m not the professional one here.

In terms of Software:

Sequencer: Well, I’ll be needing a DAW obviously. I’m currently ‘demoing’ Cubase SX3 while I get the hang of things. I like it so far, but new version is kind of expensive. Still, I don’t really have much of a choice unless I want to use the more ‘unprofessional’ (?) programs like FL and Reason. I know a lot of people on this site use them, but I’m kind of pedantic about these things. Still, I’m open to ideas. Basically, I’m wondering what program does what things best. And yes, I will try out the demos someday.

Sampler/Library: Kontakt + whatever sample libraries I might need, I assume? If I want professional recorded sounds I’ll probably spend quite a bit of money on this. Ah well, that’s the price of quality I guess. There is no point in spending a lot of cash until I learn how to mix properly, though.

Effects/sounds/plugins: So, any standard ones I should know about?

Anything else in general?

Obviously I need to know music theory and get a general grip for composing different genres. Musictheory.net is a good place to start, and there are tutorials all over the net, so I’ll probably get by. Still, this is something I’m likely to ask about latter. Especially regarding some of the finer points of orchestral arrangements.

And that’s about it.

Oh yeah, also, this is a great site. I really appreciate your work.

[about:blank]

I started out almost exactly the same way you are now, so I think I could give you some help.

Here are some tips/answers to your questions:

- First off, in terms of budgeting, you should really plan out your purchases. You said you wanted to mix in an orchestral style, so you should mainly focus your purchases on software (i.e. sample libraries, DAWs, etc) and hardware upgrades {i.e. more RAM, headphones, MIDI controllers, etc.) You should try to make a list of things you need from most important to least important, and then that will be your buying guide.

- I know you say you want to stick to Cubase, but it's good to sample other DAWs early on to see which one you really have a feel for. Don't be ashamed to use FL Studio or Reason; many professionals have used these programs. For example: Mike Oldfield and 9th Wonder are FL Studio users, and Prodigy is known to have used Reason.

- I'd say that since you're mainly concerned with doing things in the box, your first priority should be finding a good DAW. After that you should look around for some good free samples/soundfonts/VSTs until you can afford some really good VSTs/sample libraries. If you don't play piano, then you don't really need a MIDI controller, but at the same time, they also don't hurt. Some mixers here (including myself) mainly mix with their mouse anyway.

- I think your main concern at this point should be figuring out what DAW is right for you, getting some good sample libraries, upgrading your RAM [depending on how well it handles the software you decide to buy], and then getting some good monitoring headphones.

- Also, there are many threads in this section of the site which help for specific software needs and also that offer basic tips in ReMixing. I'd definitely recommend reading all of zircon's tutorials too, they were a big help for me when I started out, and I'm sure they'll help you too.

So to recap, just plan out your purchases, test out some DAWs, try out some software/sample libraries, check out all of the help threads in this forum, and when you finally get some mixes, post them in the WIP forums.

That just about covers it for me, I hope I could help. ReMixing may start out challenging, but it can be very rewarding, especially if one of your mixes gets onto the site. Just remember to have fun, and to always keep an open mind about learning something new.

[Harmony]

All good advice by a:b, but I'm of the opinion that for beginners a keyboard is an excellent and almost necessary investment. In learning about music I think you will find that the keys will make the music learning curve a lot less steep, they will help you build an intuitive knowledge of what notes sound good together, and all of that info will be more quickly absorbed because you are able to associate the sounds with tactile and visual cues...something that the piano roll of your typical sequencer doesn't do that great a job of.

88 keys is overkill for beginners, 61 is great, and 41 is the minimum if you would like to begin to learn to play piano. djpretzel, and I'm sure many other people on this site, have taught themselves how to play piano, so with a reasonably sized controller and time, you can do the same. 25 keys is fine, but don't expect to get any better at the piano.

Unless it's just really your thing, I'd hold off on the self-taught formal music theory until you get a little more experience. At it's core, music is about enjoyment. That's it. In my first adventures in computer music, I threw all of the music theory I knew out the window and had a blast programming "Frere Jaques." Start out simple and fun, move on to complex and deep.

Great equipment doesn't hurt, but experience and creativity are the only real tools necessary to make 'good' music.

that's my 2 cents anyway.

[djpretzel]

I've taught myself to play leads; truly playing piano, as a musician, in my mind requires the ability to play a supporting part on one's left hand and a melody on one's right. I really can't do that too well at all, so I instead refer to myself as "keyboard player" instead of a "piano player"

I agree that a keyboard of at least 41, preferably 61 keys is the best way to get started. As an aside, I step enter / mouse enter NOTHING, and play everything "live" into the sequencer - even rudimentary kick drum parts, which I then duplicate. It's a workflow thing - everybody's different, but I find it faster to play everything in, plus that way I get to monitor what it sounds like at the same time.

[Harmony]

I've taught myself to play leads; truly playing piano, as a musician, in my mind requires the ability to play a supporting part on one's left hand and a melody on one's right. I really can't do that too well at all, so I instead refer to myself as "keyboard player" instead of a "piano player"

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[Undefined]

Hmm... It looks like I had roughly the right idea. Thanks guys.

Just so you know, I'm mostly planning ahead here - like about:blank said I should. Other than a keyboard and headphones, these are all future expenses. I feel I need to get familiar with the process of mixing before I invest in more professional software/better hardware. It's good to know I intend to record my music much in the same way as djpretzel himself does. Like him, I can't really play with both of my hands simultaneously.

Anyway, I'll probably buy a 66 key midi controller now. A good one goes for, what, $250-400? Also, I would like some specific advice on what headphones I should get. The ones I have are kinda broken, so I need a new pair anyway.

As for music theory, I'm basically looking for some way to write consistent music. I'm not that well versed with the workings of most genres. When I listen to a song, I can think of things I would add/change, but I'm bad at writing original stuff that works with source. If there are any specific methods you guys use, I would be interested to hear it.

Anyway, thanks again. Who knows? Maybe one day I'll have something to show off here for my efforts.

Edit: And I guess the fact that I copy-paste these from Word really shows...

[Lunahorum]

don't buy a keyboard if you don't play one. Use mouse and piano roll; it works fine. Don't get headphones right away. If it sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones, it will sound fine on a top of the line sound system.

FL and reason can do anything cubase can do. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like all the DAW does is host the vsts. You can host kontakt through cubase or fl and get the same exact sounds. There is a free daw called reaper, and it is VST capable. I really like FL studio for its intuitive workflow, and the reason demo came with cool synths. I think a lot of professionals like Sonar so you might look into that.

[Harmony]

Anyway, I'll probably buy a 66 key midi controller now. A good one goes for, what, $250-400?

Nah, you should be able to do better than that. For $170 the M-Audio Keystation61 is a pretty popular 61-key controller that will get the job done with semi-weighted keys and your standard pitch-bend mod wheel combo. The only reason I see to get anything more fancy is if you'd like to have external controls for some of the effects and VST parameters you'll be using. That would be nice if you were planning on doing lots of electronica, or if you want the ladies/fellows/undefineds to be impressed by all the shiny buttons, but for orchestral composing I'm not so sure the extra controls would benefit you all that much. Even if you do go for more controls, the M-Audio Oxygen61 is the same price! You lose the semi-weighted keys but since you're not trained as a pianist, that most likely won't bother you.

[dannthr]

Max, what PLANET do you come from?

If it sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones it sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones. Period.

But what you should realize is that nothing sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones. What happens when you mix/master on $5 radioshack headphones, at best it will sound like they sound on $5 radioshack headphones on $500 Grados. So someone who listens to music on $500 Grados will listen to all of their music and hear that it sounds good like they're on $500 Grados and then will listen to your tune and think it sounds like they're listening on $5 radioshacks.

That's best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is that it sounds worse than $5 radioshacks on $500 Grados because you mixed on phones that don't actually have a full, even frequency response and you get maddening holes in your mix where sound is dampened unnaturally or even sounding. There are sounds that $5 radioshacks CAN NOT reproduce. Period.

[about:blank]

For a MIDI controller/keyboard, I'd recommend the M-Audio Axiom series. It comes in three sizes, the smallest has 25 keys, the middle one has 49 keys, and the largest one has 61. I've had an axiom 49 for about a year now and I've had little to no problems with it. It has a ton of features, but you don't necessarily need to know what they are at first, you can just plug it into your USB port and go to town. Once you start playing around with it for a while, you'll discover new things about it as you go.

The M-Audio Axiom 61 fits right into the price range that you described. You can get one for about 300 dollars from zzounds.com

link: http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAXIOM61

Don't stop looking there, though. I'd go to a music store and try to test out some other keyboards and see which one's really right for you. Look around, test things out, and use your best judgment. Just make sure you don't get stuck spending your whole budget on something you don't feel at home with.

[HoboKa]

hmm i'm thinking of getting a keyboard sometime...mixing with just a mouse is a pain in the arse lol. I'm surprised that I managed to accomplish anything w/out a keyboard (albeit not anything comparable to your guys' work just yet)...I'm not sure what kind of keyboard to get though =/ (i'm on a tight budget too)

Good luck Undefined in your remixing endeavors...btw that's a sweet remixer alius ><

[Lunahorum]

Max, what PLANET do you come from?

If it sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones it sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones. Period.

But what you should realize is that nothing sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones. What happens when you mix/master on $5 radioshack headphones, at best it will sound like they sound on $5 radioshack headphones on $500 Grados. So someone who listens to music on $500 Grados will listen to all of their music and hear that it sounds good like they're on $500 Grados and then will listen to your tune and think it sounds like they're listening on $5 radioshacks.

That's best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is that it sounds worse than $5 radioshacks on $500 Grados because you mixed on phones that don't actually have a full, even frequency response and you get maddening holes in your mix where sound is dampened unnaturally or even sounding. There are sounds that $5 radioshacks CAN NOT reproduce. Period.

eh I don't know. That whole frequency response thing is a marketing hype. For one thing, everyone's ears have a different frequency response so what sounds good for you may not sound good for me. Just make some compromises and output a decent mix. Unless you are at the professional level, there's no point in buying flatline monitors. Story short, it is not a huge difference. I mean the grados sound perfect, but it's not like the radioshacks sound bad.

[DarkeSword]

Um...frequency response isn't really just 'marketing hype.' I mean, without even getting technical, if you mix with headphones that don't have good bass, then you're gonna end up tweaking your bass levels high, which in turn leads to a really bassy mix. It's not rocket science.

Get some decent headphones; no need to break the bank, but don't buy cheapos either.

[Radiowar]

As for music theory, I'm basically looking for some way to write consistent music. I'm not that well versed with the workings of most genres. When I listen to a song, I can think of things I would add/change, but I'm bad at writing original stuff that works with source. If there are any specific methods you guys use, I would be interested to hear it.

Studying music theory - especially at the rudimentary levels - won't really help you with this at all. Especially early on it would really only give you a very basic, technical knowledge (e.g. writing scales, identifying chords/intervals, etc.) You would probably benefit the most from listening to bands/artists who create the kind of music you want to, then taking the ideas you like and trying to replicate them.

[HoboKa]

hey you're back Alex (Radiowar)!! About time, thought you died or something

[Lunahorum]

yea I guess that's true. I am so used to hearing music through these things that I mix my music like that. Barely audible bass. I've heard my music through my friend's crappy speakers and it sounds fine to me. If I were really serious though, I'd definitely get a pair of monitors.

[Rozovian]

I started out with trackers and ordinary walkman earphones. It's one thing to produce professional mixes with professional equipment (which tends to require a professional budget), it's another to create music worth listening to, learning to build arrangements, playing, making mixes that don't sound bad.

5$ radioshack headphones probably work fine while arranging. When you're ready to focus on mixing it together right, try it out with speakers, earphones, headphones, plug it to the TV, anything to hear things to improve on. Everyone doesn't have 500$ headphones to listen through, and those that do are audiophiles that probably only listen to high-quality studio recordings anyway.

I'm doing okay with relatively cheap headphones, earphones, and a couple of bigger speakers at my church. Most of my music sounds decent through all of those. There's no point in spending a fortune on equipment long before you need it.

For great arrangement, check out artists like Necros, Purple Motion, Jester, and other veterans on www.modarchive.com as those guys took cheap and now way outdated tools to create music I think sounds just as good as professional quality recordings. What they don't have in bit depth, they make up in arrangement skill. Best of all, tracker formats (xm, it, s3m, mod, and others) are opened by trackers, so you can see how the legends put their stuff together. I'm just saying that's what got me into music.

[Undefined]

Nah, you should be able to do better than that. For $170 the M-Audio Keystation61 is a pretty popular 61-key controller that will get the job done with semi-weighted keys and your standard pitch-bend mod wheel combo.

For a MIDI controller/keyboard, I'd recommend the M-Audio Axiom series. It comes in three sizes, the smallest has 25 keys, the middle one has 49 keys, and the largest one has 61. I've had an axiom 49 for about a year now and I've had little to no problems with it.

Interesting. I'll look into those. I don't live in America so I can't order from zZounds, but I should be able to find something to that extent. Thanks.

Studying music theory - especially at the rudimentary levels - won't really help you with this at all. Especially early on it would really only give you a very basic, technical knowledge (e.g. writing scales, identifying chords/intervals, etc.) You would probably benefit the most from listening to bands/artists who create the kind of music you want to, then taking the ideas you like and trying to replicate them.

That's pretty much exactly what I want to do. I need to be able to interpret and play sheet music. And chords are kind of important, but they just don't work for me. So I could benefit from learning the standard ones, I think. But yes, listening is probably the best way to learn. It feels a bit like mimicing, but then again most composers draw inspiration from one another.

As for earphones, I'll buy a decent pair. I really need something that doesn't buzz all the time.

[DarkeSword]

Studying music theory - especially at the rudimentary levels - won't really help you with this at all. Especially early on it would really only give you a very basic, technical knowledge (e.g. writing scales, identifying chords/intervals, etc.) You would probably benefit the most from listening to bands/artists who create the kind of music you want to, then taking the ideas you like and trying to replicate them.

I disagree. Learning the basics of theory (chords, intervals, and scales) really helps in understanding how to translate what you hear in your head 'onto paper.' When you can understand and identify that the chord progression in a song is Cmaj Amin Fmaj Gmaj, it makes it that much easier to write a bassline, comping parts, or good counter-melodies that 'fit.'

[dannthr]

I agree with DarkeSword.

I'd go further and say that you should require yourself to not just learn basic music theory, but also to ANALYZE the artists you like and EMULATE songs you like. When I started out producing electronic music with my Roland 7++ years ago, I had some advice from a JVXP mailing group that basically told me to try to emulate the sounds I heard of artists I liked with my equipment. When I could do that, then I would have mastered my equipment.

That's your goal, to master your equipment. Not just in useability, but in your mind, in the way you conceive your workflow. You should be able to make any sound you desire with your equipment, and if you can't, you should learn how.

Then, when you want to make music, it's EASY to translate what's in your head to what other people will hear.

Music theory is only one of many vital implementation devices you need to have in order to execute this thing we call music.

[Radiowar]

I disagree. Learning the basics of theory (chords, intervals, and scales) really helps in understanding how to translate what you hear in your head 'onto paper.' When you can understand and identify that the chord progression in a song is Cmaj Amin Fmaj Gmaj, it makes it that much easier to write a bassline, comping parts, or good counter-melodies that 'fit.'

Yeah, I was just responding based on what he said about learning the "workings of genres" in which learning theory wouldn't be as helpful as just listening to music and trying to emulate it. Maybe I'm just taking basic theory for granted.

[Undefined]

Yeah, I was just responding based on what he said about learning the "workings of genres" in which learning theory wouldn't be as helpful as just listening to music and trying to emulate it. Maybe I'm just taking basic theory for granted.

Well, uh, I actually never said that. I assumed learning the basics of music theory would tell me how a song is structured, and then build of off that would work just as well as any first hand experience with that kind of music.

Anyway, in other news, I bought a keyboard. An Edriol PCR-800 to be precise. I haven't played around with enough it to know all the quirks yet, but at least it works. I say it's quite a feeling to know that you've got every instrument in the world at your fingertips. I also got new 'studio' headphones. The difference? I can actually hear what the bass and percussion is playing now. Heh, I'm quite happy with my purchases for now.

So, thanks again guys. I'll probably hang around for a while.

[DarkeSword]

Well, uh, I actually never said that. I assumed learning the basics of music theory would tell me how a song is structured, and then build of off that would work just as well as any first hand experience with that kind of music.

It can, in a sense; when you learn chords and common progressions, it's easier to analyze music and adapt it to certain genres. A lot of genres are categorized by rhythmic patterns, and knowing those patterns and how to fit chord progressions to them is kind of the bread and butter of arrangement; at least, arrangement of the genre-adaptation variety.

[SnappleMan]

Max, what PLANET do you come from?

If it sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones it sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones. Period.

But what you should realize is that nothing sounds good on $5 radioshack headphones. What happens when you mix/master on $5 radioshack headphones, at best it will sound like they sound on $5 radioshack headphones on $500 Grados. So someone who listens to music on $500 Grados will listen to all of their music and hear that it sounds good like they're on $500 Grados and then will listen to your tune and think it sounds like they're listening on $5 radioshacks.

That's best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is that it sounds worse than $5 radioshacks on $500 Grados because you mixed on phones that don't actually have a full, even frequency response and you get maddening holes in your mix where sound is dampened unnaturally or even sounding. There are sounds that $5 radioshacks CAN NOT reproduce. Period.

Worst advice ever. Oops, I meant to quote Max2049395840895746

[dannthr]

woopsydaisy?