Scoring a short student film - is it unreasonable to expect...

[sgx]

A couple months ago I wast contacted by the screenwriter of a short student film to see if I would do the music for the film he wrote. I get this kind of request occasionally from 15 year olds and stuff, but I saw a short trailer of stuff already shot and read the screenplay and it was quite compelling stuff, so I jumped on it (i used stuff a lot in that sentence).

I was corresponding with the screenwriter for a while talking about the script and the moods and whatnot. He said the director wanted to finish up in December. I said that would probably be pretty tight for me because I'm also finishing up my next album which I had promised fans before the end of the year, but I would give it a shot. I told him I wanted to see any footage as soon as it begins to come together at all - I need to get a sense of the emotions in the actors and the pacing, the overall aesthetic mood of the film that one can't get from reading just the dialogue. I told him this was very important! Right?

He got back to me and said that the director didn't want to show any footage until it was really close to complete...and I was like 'wtf mate etc' that is somewhat essential. And I also became annoyed and thought it weird that I was talking about all this with the screenwriter whose part of the project had been done for a while. The director had never even emailed to say hi. So I got a little pissy, voiced my dissatisfaction to screenwriter guy (who is a cool dude - no beef with him), and he finally got the director to contact me.

I told the director I need to see footage ASAP and why. He was all "we'll get it to you soon when we can show it." At this point I was feeling just kind of apathetic and tired of telling him I need this. I told him I'd get some rough ideas started but I would not be able to get far without seeing footage. I spent like 10 min sketching some melody ideas then focused back on my album. I am not about to waste my time stabbing in the dark making some stuff that will have to be totally overhauled once I finally get to see what I'm putting music to, especially when I'm short on time for completing my album already.

I just got an email from the director with a schedule that says he wants my music delivered 5 days from now. Eff that! Oh, no footage yet either. Also, he said that they are almost done the 3rd cut and that he'd be sending me the 1st cut soon. Why isn't he sending me the newest cut, and why didn't he at least send me the first cut 1st! Blah! I said as much in a new email and that's where things are.

I'm really excited to be on this project since it seems like it will be a really cool film at the end and film scoring is something I've been interested in. I really don't ever like releasing any music that I think is shitty, so I'm definitely not going to do a rush job and produce some crap for them. Therefore I'm not going to do it in 5 days. I think I'll take a little extra time. They've kept me waiting for two months, I'll let them wait for me a bit.

Is it unreasonable of me to expect to see rough cuts of a film in progress BEFORE I seriously dive into producing a score? Oh, I didn't mention I'm doing this for free. Maybe if this was a paid job they could use and abuse me like this, but as a volunteer job, I have less tolerance of bullshit and also more of a need to put some artistic merit into my part of the project.

Damn that was long...I sort of wanted to vent and organize my thoughts I guess. "SGX, get a diary (or a blog no one wants to read) and stfu!"

[Sil]

but I saw a short trailer of stuff already shot and read the screenplay and it was quite compelling stuff, so I jumped on it

In this day in age when everyone and their brother are making trailers and posting them on youtube, it's best to stay skeptical until you're watching the entire film on your home computer. If the trailer is made long before most of the film, it's usually a bad sign. Of course, you might be referring to something entirely different, but I'm just saying...

He got back to me and said that the director didn't want to show any footage until it was really close to complete...and I was like 'wtf mate etc' that is somewhat essential.

In my experience, directors can be divas, and sometimes even hate to have to give up their beloved temp score (usually Moonlight Sonata for some reason) and leave it in the hands of another artist.

Therefore I'm not going to do it in 5 days. I think I'll take a little extra time. They've kept me waiting for two months, I'll let them wait for me a bit.

That's the right idea, but maybe a little too late. I think you should be more courageous and threaten to leave the project if they (or just the director) can't be more professional. I find that directors sometimes feel they are doing everyone a favor by bringing them onto his project, and while this may be true to an extent, you have every right to tell him that if he's going to take his time and waste yours, he's going to miss out on a really good and original film score and might have to settle for something else. It's risky, but chances are he will respect you more because you seem like the pro. You CAN NOT score a film without footage (maybe you can, but don't tell him that) and unless he's premiering the film in 6 days, there is no reason to only give you 5.

I just realized I'm giving out relationship advice on a web forum...

[Rozovian]

Venting is okay, man.

I did music for a student film. Then again, I was involved in it, in front of as well as behind the camera, in the writing stage, in the editing stage. Actually directed a cut, too. Anyway, on that film, I was able to talk music with the director pretty much any time, and he's a musician himself. No problem.

Sgx... You're screwed. You're not being unreasonable, the wannabe director is. Just like he can't shoot or cut the movie in five days, you can't score it in five days either. He needs to grow up. If he's being so secretive about his precious film, maybe you should make the music without listening to it at all. Toss in notes and such, see what it ends up being.

Seriously, some people don't don't understand the process, either because they haven't had anything to do with it, or because they're idiots. In this case, it could be both.

unless he's premiering the film in 6 days,

If so, that would be proof of the idiocy mentioned above.

[Moseph]

I co-composed a score a three-minute cartoon that a student did, and I had similar problems. The guy would send us a version of the cartoon, claim the timings were locked, we'd compose to it, and then he'd revise it and we'd have to rewrite our music. We finally told him that the next thing he sent us needed to be the locked picture and we wouldn't accommodate any more changes. He got our score, but then he made more changes and chopped our carefully composed music into little pieces to try to make it work with his new version. The final product was a mess.

Inexperienced directors don't understand that a movie must be essentially complete before scoring can even begin. They think you can just write some stuff and stick it in somewhere.

They probably need this done for an end of semester evaluation and are behind schedule. My advice: Explain that you need the final locked picture in order to write a score. If they can't give you that plus a reasonable amount of time to write the score, then get the hell out. They can use their temp track. There's no reason that you should be expected to accommodate this nonsense, especially when you're not getting paid and have never even met the director.

[huggie]

I co-composed a score a three-minute cartoon that a student did, and I had similar problems. The guy would send us a version of the cartoon, claim the timings were locked, we'd compose to it, and then he'd revise it and we'd have to rewrite our music. We finally told him that the next thing he sent us needed to be the locked picture and we wouldn't accommodate any more changes. He got our score, but then he made more changes and chopped our carefully composed music into little pieces to try to make it work with his new version. The final product was a mess.

Inexperienced directors don't understand that a movie must be essentially complete before scoring can even begin. They think you can just write some stuff and stick it in somewhere.

They probably need this done for an end of semester evaluation and are behind schedule. My advice: Explain that you need the final locked picture in order to write a score. If they can't give you that plus a reasonable amount of time to write the score, then get the hell out. They can use their temp track. There's no reason that you should be expected to accommodate this nonsense, especially when you're not getting paid and have never even met the director.

I'm totally with you on this one!

I use to do television jingles... The headaches caused by constant tweaking of the "final cut" use to drive me crazy... Unfortunately the money was good so I just had to bite my tongue and just get on with it...

However freebies are a different story... It seems sometimes the director expects you to spend every waking hour on his project... The reality is he is getting something for free and needs to respect your time and make sure it isn't wasted..

Hugo

[tgfoo]

I've heard of situations like this many times from other composers. Unfortunately, music/sound design is usually one of the last things to be added to a film. With sound design, unlike music, you can often make a quite a bit of the sounds without actually seeing the film, and then stick them in at the end. With music, it's a lot harder to do without a locked version of the film.

Sadly, this happens often where production runs over budget and behind schedule and directors/producers expect composers to work with very little time (and very little money). Really, all you can do is either refuse to do it with that scedule or just suck it up and try it. At least with the 1st cut you could get a feel for the movie (unless it changes drastically in the 3rd cut) and write some basic themes. Keep it simple, because you won't have time to do anything too complex and involved.

Also, it sounds like you're dealing with a very inexperienced/poor director.

[Antipode]

No, you SHOULD expect to see footage! I don't know how he expects you to make background music for something you can't see the foreground of.

[Yoozer]

No; deliver in time.

Just make something that's completely unrelated to the movie (comedy option: include a sped-up Yakety Sax part). Throw in parts suspense, parts comedy, parts whoa-I'm-in-the-Matrix, parts bombastic orchestral - make it a showcase of styles.

When they complain about the incongruity of it all, tell 'm it's like asking a painter to paint someone blindfolded. Without at least an image or an impression, it's unpredictable what the result's going to be. They insisted on the blindfold, they'll have to deal with the consequences.

Remember, don't get mad - get even

[dannthr]

Take the abuse or don't take the abuse--just never do a bad job and never burn bridges.

[analoq]

it's not unreasonable to ask for footage, but it's not necessary. all you really need are the cue sheets with SMTPE.

and if they don't give you that, then they're just going to have you stab in the dark until they get something they like or they'll just drop you and use the aforementioned Moonlight Sonata.

welcome to the world of scoring: It sucks.

if you're interested in this field, this is the sort of abuse you'll have to expect.

[Hemophiliac]

it's not unreasonable to ask for footage, but it's not necessary. all you really need are the cue sheets with SMTPE.

and if they don't give you that, then they're just going to have you stab in the dark until they get something they like or they'll just drop you and use the aforementioned Moonlight Sonata.

welcome to the world of scoring: It sucks.

if you're interested in this field, this is the sort of abuse you'll have to expect.

i learned how to sync the same as analoq here and agree that you can do it that way. thought the results may not be as good as seeing actual footage, you can still get the job done.

heck i wrote a bid for a large candy commercial (read snickers) a few months ago, and i didn't see a cut or a cue sheet. i was only given a small description of what was happening in the commercial and a "should sound like this/shouldn't sound like this list" (in genres).

i think really this all comes down to the kind of director you have. an ass or a considerate one.

[zircon]

In the film industry at large, generally speaking, the composer does not start working until the film is completely edited, or close enough to it. Then, the director will sit with the composer in a 'spotting session' wherein they go through the film, and the director points out what sort of mood or style of music he wants at which point. eg. in a car chase scene, "I want it to be edgy and heavy." The composer's job is to take thorough notes and write down exactly what the director is looking for. This will come in handy later if the director complains about a musical choice you make, contradicting himself earlier. At this point, a track with dialogue and possibly sound effects and temp music (probably unmixed, in all likelihood) will be available so the composer can get a feel for what's going on.

Postproduction and music may receive increasingly less time in the overall production of a film, but five days is definitely unrealistic.

[Hemophiliac]

In the film industry at large, generally speaking, the composer does not start working until the film is completely edited, or close enough to it. Then, the director will sit with the composer in a 'spotting session' wherein they go through the film, and the director points out what sort of mood or style of music he wants at which point. eg. in a car chase scene, "I want it to be edgy and heavy." The composer's job is to take thorough notes and write down exactly what the director is looking for. This will come in handy later if the director complains about a musical choice you make, contradicting himself earlier. At this point, a track with dialogue and possibly sound effects and temp music (probably unmixed, in all likelihood) will be available so the composer can get a feel for what's going on.

Postproduction and music may receive increasingly less time in the overall production of a film, but five days is definitely unrealistic.

generally depending on the size of the project. though i will say this is true for most productions.

[sgx]

Take the abuse or don't take the abuse--just never do a bad job and never burn bridges.

Yes. My main concern is to do a good job. Yoozer, that sounds like fun, but I don't like to put out shit with my name on it ever. And any one of the team on the film could be a good hookup to a better gig, so I don't need to fuck this one up.

I spoke to the director and got about a week extension. Still hasn't sent me footage though...

He has a hard deadline because it is a school project that is due sometime around the 17th. Can't really set it back further.

Thanks for your responses.

[Rozovian]

Write a whole lot of short pieces that can be put in any order wherever they fit. That'll get rid of some of the cue problems. Depending on music genre, you might even get away with fading it in and out.

A good idea would be to talk to whoever's doing sound, as the auditory landscape is, like almost all aspects of movie-making, a collaboration.

[analoq]

My main concern is to do a good job. And any one of the team on the film could be a good hookup to a better gig, so I don't need to fuck this one up.

That is the right attitude, apologies if my earlier post sounded cynical -- I do think you're dealing with this appropriately.

cheers.

[po!]

sounds to me like the director is just unorganized and doesn't have his act together. you should tell him (if you haven't already) that you can have the music done X days after they send you footage or detailed instructions on mood, tempo, instrumentation, etc. if they can't give you that, then just drop the project cuz it sounds really unorganized

i think you should be clear with them and demand the footage by Dec X, or you will not do the music. whatever you do, don't stay in this idle state where everything is wish washy and unclear. they may be unorganized, but doesn't mean you have to be too

[statas]

if you are not being paid. just tell him no.

as in, i'm not going to give you music in 5 days, and maybe not at all. if he can't work with you on a professional level, do not work with him.

i did scoring and foley work for a theatrical production recently. i sat in over 2 months of rehearsals, gotten annotated scripts with cue timings, numerous conversations with the director over mood and psychological reasoning behind all music and tone/tension/emotion etc etc etc..it was an awesome project, but i made it clear that if he wanted 100% from me, i would have input into the project (sound wise). turned out awesome, and we both got what we wanted out of it. music is important to film/theatre and not an afterthought.

[sgx]

Write a whole lot of short pieces that can be put in any order wherever they fit. That'll get rid of some of the cue problems. Depending on music genre, you might even get away with fading it in and out.

A good idea would be to talk to whoever's doing sound, as the auditory landscape is, like almost all aspects of movie-making, a collaboration.

That is a good idea, thanks.

Man, he still hasn't sent me that footage. Ridiculous.