music theory questions? ask here

[prophetik music]

i noticed that the old music theory thread is toast, and since some people are starting to ask questions about whether or not it's important to know theory i'll post this now.

music theory is one of the most important things you can learn, besides how to play an instrument. it will completely change your musical ability, the way you view music, and whether or not people of the opposite sex will look at you. if you know music theory, you will drive a nice car and look hot. fyi.

that said, i know a decent amount about it, so if you've got a question, feel free to ask.

don't

-ask 'h0w du eye mix?!?lolol

-ask extremely generic question

-ask about synth design and setups. this is for the notation side of theory, not the physics side of it.

-ask about computers.

do

-have an example if possible

-have an idea of what you're trying to learn

-ask about computer programs using notation

-ask about timbral and aural notation (aka, what instruments make THIS sound)

if you need to, contact my by aim, email, or pm for a complicated problem.

edit - it'd be nice if you could stickify this thread, just so that we don't lose it in the torrent of information that is remixing. the last one was stickied too, i think.

[Lunahorum]

I recommend the David Lucas Burge ear training package. I am still struggling through the perfect pitch course, but I am almost done with the relative pitch course and I can say it has helped a lot with hearing the theory. I don't know if the perfect pitch course actually works because there are so many rumors that it doesn't, but I definitely have noticed there are subtle differences between the 12 notes so I am guessing that is possible to learn perfect pitch, but it takes a lot of dedication and practice.

[dannthr]

It's true! Learning Music Theory has made me a more pro-active, action-oriented individual. I'm no longer a human being, I'm a human doing.

Thank you, Music Theory.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

straying a tiny bit off the main focus here, but what kind of things can I do to improve my perfect pitch? I wasn't born with it and I never had any training in it or anything, I just noticed that I had it at one point. It's not spot-on though, and sometimes it takes me a bit to translate the sound to notes, especially if its with unfamiliar timbres of sound (i.e. instruments that I don't hear all the time).

I've just been trying to pick out notes whenever I go to recitals and whatnot, or when I hear random stuff like car horns. Is there anything else I could be randomly doing? Also, any tips for hearing chords? They're always a pain...I guess maybe if I learned how each =type= of chord sounded (or for 2-note chords, I guess that would be getting more familiar with how the different -intervals- sound like) then it would be easier, since I could just find the base note or whatever, and then the rest of the chord would fall into place. Whereas right now it's more like I'm trying to discern each note in the chord, =then= put them together and figure out what it is.

[Lunahorum]

Yes chords are hard because the flavor of the chord masks the flavor of the notes.

Here's a drill I do - play two notes (randomly black/white/close/wide) on the piano and then unlock them from bottom to top. This relaxes your ear and helps you hear multiple lines at once.

once you can do that, do three notes, then four, then five. I have yet to make it past five, but the guy I got the drill from does this mad crazy drill. He has someone else pick 7 sequential chromatic notes and then play 6 of those 7. He tries to tell you which note you aren't playing. His ears are on steroids hehe.

[zircon]

Yes, simply playing intervals and chords over and over is the best way to learn, IMO. I took three terms of ear training (1 yr) at school and my skills increased dramatically.

[Mia]

Yes, the David Lucas Burge thing can work. The truth is, in a manner of speaking, we all have perfect pitch. Example.. your favorite song plays during one of your dreams, and it sounds exactly as you remember it, including pitch. One's conscious mind does kind of limit its own power, paradoxically enough. With DLB's thing, basically it's just a matter of practicing to use your brain the right way to access that information. I.E. Thinking about it intuitively rather than rationally.

I find I have moments of perfect pitch maybe about 75% of the times I try. It helps if I'm drunk. lol.

A few suggestions for DDRKirby.. 1. if possible carry around something with you at all times that can provide some kind of reference note. a tuning harmonica for example, or in my case, my cell phone with some various ringtones i know the key of. this way after you guess something, you can check if you were right or not. and 2. if it turns out you weren't right, try thinking about this discovery in affirmative sentences, such as 'this (reference) note IS e' and not 'that note wasn't e'

and besides that, just, try not to think when you're guessing.

[OceansAndrew]

some cadences using diminished chords please.

[Hemophiliac]

I (ii/IV) vii* I

I vii* I

or to simplify

anything - vii*- I

the above could be half diminished 7th chords diatonically.

or you could do something jazzier and go ii*7(fully diminished)-I

^more retrogression feel though.

[Lunahorum]

Submerged 7ths are hard to play. Usually end up ruining the instrument with all the water damage and what not.

[Patrick Burns]

Submerged 7ths are hard to play. Usually end up ruining the instrument with all the water damage and what not.

Next time I do some analysis, I'm going to pull out one of those and stare directly at my teacher with the most serious of glances.

[prophetik music]

I (ii/IV) vii* I

I vii* I

or to simplify

anything - vii*- I

the above could be half diminished 7th chords diatonically.

or you could do something jazzier and go ii*7(fully diminished)-I

^more retrogression feel though.

almost. if you're going to use this, vii chords almost always show up in first inversion, meaning that in, say, the key of C, you'd see the chord like this: D F B. not usually a third.

so, a progression that goes I - vii - I would be fine as long as it was a vii6, and not, say, a vii in root position.

[OceansAndrew]

that's a good start, what else you got?

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

I find I have moments of perfect pitch maybe about 75% of the times I try. It helps if I'm drunk. lol.

A few suggestions for DDRKirby.. 1. if possible carry around something with you at all times that can provide some kind of reference note. a tuning harmonica for example, or in my case, my cell phone with some various ringtones i know the key of. this way after you guess something, you can check if you were right or not. and 2. if it turns out you weren't right, try thinking about this discovery in affirmative sentences, such as 'this (reference) note IS e' and not 'that note wasn't e'

and besides that, just, try not to think when you're guessing.

Well, I can always get it right =eventually=, with no aid, if I think about it enough. I'm just not always good enough to be able to do it in a snap (though sometimes I am). Still, good suggestions from everyone, I'll think about those.

[prophetik music]

that's a good start, what else you got?

what's the application? that'll change my answer.

[OceansAndrew]

what's the application? that'll change my answer.

it's for a song.

[prophetik music]

it's for a song.

lol

can i have context? I - vii - I progressions aren't very common because they're a less-strong variety of I V I (since a vii is just a V without the root), so most cadences that use I V I can use the vii chord with a bit of adjusting.

[OceansAndrew]

we'll simplify it.

Some nice resolutions from diminished chords.

[prophetik music]

AH. that's a little clearer. we'll use Fdim as our example chord.

Fdim (in root position) to a C/E (first inversion) is a nice sound. Note that Fdim isn't really in the key of C, although it is in F# (lol at completely opposite keys). alternatively, going to a C sus4 chord with the sus in the bass, resolving downward, is a nice sound. you can substitute either of these chords with an F# chord to make it a true vii-I cadence, they both have distinctive and enjoyable sounds.

if you're looking for something within the key and made specifically for it, your typical vii6-I is fine.

going from our Fdim in first inversion (Fdim/Ab) to a I64-V7 figure in C (C/G, G7) to the true root, F#, is a slightly more involved way to fool with the key and your ears. harder to pull off, due to inversions and the like.

need more?

edit - another nice one is going from our Fdim/Ab to A major, A minor, I64-V7-I in D major, or Eb/G works well too.