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You're right, and we actually basically agree. What I attempted to do here was define what might potentially make some music better than other music, for the sake of the topic at hand, and this is really difficult to do (like you said, it's mostly a waste of time). Obviously it all does come down to personal preference and the real value is in the eye of the beholder. That said, I think I raised an interesting point. Basically what I've shown is that while some music is created as a result of natural expression, other music is crafted to meet very specific requirements (usually to make it bankable). The former reveals more to us about the artist, while the latter reveals more to us about current trends (and it also tells us something about the corporation it represents). I don't mean to imply that one of these kinds of music is better than the other. I just don't like how the nature of modern video game music (and indeed the music industry in general) is such that the musicians with their own voice who do things their own way have to struggle to make an image for themselves and pray for their "big break", while the musicians who are like chameleons and jump from trend to trend without injecting their unique personality in their music manage to stay competitive and achieve some degree of mainstream success. Obviously there are people who fall squarely in the middle of these two extremes, and these people are my heroes. These are the kind of composers we celebrate at communities like this. What I'm saying is that while those composers were a dime a dozen back in the 90s when video game music was still growing and evolving into what it is today, now that the industry has gotten bigger, we have all kinds of game designers who want to make games just like the ones they admired as a kid, and we have game artists who want to create the same kind of graphics that inspired them when they were younger, and we have lots and lots of game composers who want to sound like the greats that inspired them in their infancy. Whereas the people scoring games on NES and Sega had little to work from and had to infuse their own ideas into what video game music should sound like, today most of our composers are just sticking to what was established last decade because that just seems to be what works. The way I see it, the 90s of video game music are roughly equivalent to the 70s of rock and roll. So basically what it comes down to is that I would prefer to listen to someone express their own ideas, rather than to listen to them try to sound like somebody else who did something well and achieved success with it. I'm sure many of us would agree on that Hmm.. I guess what I'm saying is really about music as a whole and not specifically video game music. I just see the compromises that happen when money comes in to the picture and I don't like it.

The short version: the effects of commercialization have had a negative effect on this genre of music. Whereas it used to be more about free expression, now it is about fitting a mold that is shown to make money. The freedom of the video game composer is somewhat limited whereas the freedom of someone with a guitar and a microphone pretty much unlimited. I would rather listen to music that was composed naturally as a result of that person's experiences, than music that was forcibly composed in exchange for money. It's really just a question of how money has a negative effect on art in general, as it forces ideas rather than allowing the artist to come to their own naturally. Remember, I don't mean this all that seriously, it's all in good fun. Maybe I'll upset some people (hope not) but I think this stuff is interesting food for thought. I do enjoy soundtrack music in it's own way, but I do prefer music that is more free-form. I do recommend reading the full post, it goes into this idea with a lot more depth ^ EDIT: Okay, you know I just realised that where I'm coming from ultimately leads to a discussion about something much larger and more important (and vague) than the subject of video game music. What it comes down to is whether or not the commercialization of art has lessened it's quality. Personally, I feel that the answer is "yes" but this discussion is way beyond the scope of a message board like this, so if anyone read everything I said and it hurt their heads, I sincerely apologize. If anyone wants to talk about it though, be my guest, as I find this subject completely fascinating and extremely important.

I can see how what I'm saying would come across as pretty confusing and rash so please let me explain what I'm saying more clearly so that the idea I was trying to express is properly understood. The stance I'm coming from isn't neccessarily against video game music, but rather an observation about soundtrack music as a whole. What I am proposing is that there is a distinction between soundtrack music, and every other kind of music. I think everyone here will agree that soundtrack music has a distinct feel. Earlier in this thread other users have already offered up some observations on videogame soundtrack music in particular, noting that for example it loops every minute or so. Now to really understand where I'm coming from, you need to contemplate the artistic prcoess of creation, and I mean this in the most specific way. When someone sets out on an artistic endeavour, they are essentially bringing into reality what otherwise would never have existed. Creating something from nothing as they see fit. As I said previously, a poet writes what he feels he must, and an artist draws what he wishes to see. The value of art is that is pure, natural expression. Relating this to music, a musician plays what he wants to hear, and an arranger composes what he feels will sound most natural. There are very many ways of expressing oneself with music. North American music tends to have certain characteristics, as does music in the rest of the world. This is interesting to contemplate because these styles reveal a lot to us about the countries they are from. Art, in whichever form it renders itself, lets us in the world of its creator. It is one of the most powerful things in human nature, and it is all around us. The room you're in is full of things that required someone to excercise some level of artistry to create it. It's kind of strange to think about, but everything in your room was designed by someone. But, here's where the line is hazy... would you consider it art? Probably not, but if we take a step back from the haze we can approach the subject of video game music with a new perspective. You see, the reason the idea of your furniture as art being uncomfortable is because it's not specifically an expression of pure artistic creation. Clearly, most of the things around us are created because someone wanted to make money selling them to us. While some music is the true, unobstructed and natural expression of the artist(s), other music is analyzed under more scrutiny. When financial stakes are on the line, the people trusted to be in charge have to make certain decisions. Record labels only sign artists they think they can cash on. Its generally understood that in North America, the music we hear the most that is on the biggest labels, is carefully controlled and bands are chosen and crafted to fit the current mainstream trend. Video games, too, are a product of this game of financial gain. The people who have invested all of their money into the production of all of these video games have analyzed current market trends and want to make intelligent investments. Therefore, the people in charge of the staff making the games are going to make sure the games meet certain requirements. Okay, now that you're with me, here's where it really gets interesting. It's where you have to consider how one approaches game design, specifically as a project director. You see, these people (that we'd probably consider something like "super lucky") are going to make sure their game has a specific character so that it sells well to a certain demographic. They'll make sure they use the right people for the right tasks, and hire specific artists and composers based on what they've heard (and what they can afford). A deciding factor in the careers of aspiring video game music composers is their ability to adapt to specific requirements. Now, maybe some of the brilliant video game music composers can sit down and get the theme right on the first try in one inspired sitting, but in most cases there will be rewrites. This isn't because the music isn't "good enough", it's because it doesn't quite fit the vision the director has of all the elements of the game working in harmony. I'm not saying this makes it worse music, what I'm saying is that the music is adjusted to make for a better game. Earlier in this post I said that the value of art is that it is pure, natural expression. The value of music is that it is the creative expression of someone with an instrument. There is undeniably an art to video games too. I think a lot of people see the artistic value of games as being how "good" the visuals are and how "good" the music is. But the true artistic vision behind the game is that of the lead game designer! Ultimately behind the creation of all the games we play is one guy in charge, and he has very specific ideas about what will make for fun video games. Ideally the lead designer has mastered the art of video game design. In my opinion, the most important aspect of a video game is the overall direction. How the sum of the parts work together to create for a unique and memorable gaming experience. The way the entire experience unfolds is ultimately the art of game design. Now here's where it becomes relevant to the topic at hand. What I'm saying is that video game direction is the most important artistic component of a video game, and that to this everything else is secondary. All of the "art" components of a game (graphics, music, story) are created by people who will have to be adaptable and make changes, holding back and adjusting their vision to keep it in line with the game director's vision. Ideally these creative forces will be very collaborative and it the entire game design process will be a natural and creative process. I think a lot of people at these forums will acknowledge the "glory" days of retro gaming... in terms of video game music especially the SNES-PS1 era is remembered and celebrated (and probably most remixes on this site are from that period). It's interesting to consider because up until 16 bit systems, the old gaming consoles weren't capable of much more than bleeps and bloops. But with the Sega and SNES, suddenly the consoles had a large range of sounds they could produce, and game designers were obviously very enthusiastic about getting the coolest music possible on their video games. Especially with some of the much loved role-playing games, video game music composers like Nobuo are oft celebrated because they strove to push video game music forward as a genre and push the SNES (and later, the PS1) to the max to make the most immersive and emotional music. However, obviously not every game design team had this natural creative synergy. In a lot of cases it's simply a case of the director requesting changes to the music (usually, in the vaguest terms possible due to their limited understanding of art or music) so that their game will sell better. What this results in is a disjointed creative effort that, as I'm sure most adamant gamers will note, results in an obvious poorer quality of game. During the PS2-XBOX era something started to happen... video gaming really started to catch on and there came more and more money into the industry, and right now it's pretty exciting to be alive while the gaming industry is obviously the biggest it's ever been. But as with the mass commercialization of video games comes lots and lots of people who want to cash in on it. It has gotten to the point where we have companies like EA who have basically turned video game design into production line work. Game programmers work under strict deadlines and are expected to do lots of overtime. The creative process of game design has been, what some might call "refined", but really it's been somewhat dehumanized. Obviously not every case is that bad, but there are only so many Todd Howards and Gabe Newells out there. The true gems of game design that shine in all areas are few and far between. A dozen games come out every week and most of them were made to meet deadlines. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. But clearly all of these games coming out can't be considered "art"? So, if the value of art is truely as I described, its pure, unaltered expression of someone's idea, then I think I've clearly established that in the current world of video game music (and ultimately soundtrack music as a whole), where the composer's idea will inevitably be modified, altered and rearranged some more, the artistic vision of the composer has ultimately been comprised. Although the music will fit the game better, it will be less representative of what the composer's musical ideals are... it is not neccessarily what he would have chosen to create. Some film scorers completely disappear into this role (John Williams, Hanz Zimmer) and capture the true art of scoring for movies, but most scorers don't have as much say as we might like to think. Now that I've said aaaaalllllllllllllll that I can summarize and you'll understand perfectly (unless I lost you somewhere up there). When I'm listening to music, I'd rather listen to music that is the unaltered expression of the original artist who created it. This isn't the case with most soundtrack music... and unfortunately this isn't the case with most mainstream music on the radio either. The effect commercialization has had on the videogames and music industries is for me undeniably clear. I know when I'm listening to music that is mass produced.. it just has that feeling, a forced feeling that you don't get with anything else. I'm sure lots of people here who have a broad taste in music that have noted the obvious "commercial" sound of mainstream productions. The same is true of videogame music, and except for those diamonds in the rough (like from the SNES/PS1 era I mentioned) the control of the soundtrack is in some ways beyond the control of the composer, and that makes for I think noticeably worsened music. In short, if you'd asked this 5 years ago I would have said best music = yes (or more likely maybe), but the way things are now I have to say best music = no. Some final thoughts to perk up anyone who read all this: In spite of the effects of the commercialization of art that I discussed, I think that right now we're living in a very exciting time for music and pushing things forward. Thanks to the internet, anyone who wants to make music can share it with anyone they want online. Some of my favourite genres of music were born on the internet, and anyone can express and share any artistic musical idea they want so long as they have a webpage to put it on. We're seeing unconventional changes in the music industry, bands are releasing CDs online for free, more people are downloading than buying CDs at the store and we have access to sooooo many different kinds of music (many of which are beyond the lobotomizing effects of mass commercialization). There was a spirit and soul of exploration to music in the 70s that a lot of people miss, but I think it lives on in modern music that refuses to conform and strives to be... it's own (unfiltered) form of expression.

A quick word in advance- sorry for the wall of text! Couldn't help myself. -- Just for fun I feel like playing devil's advocate. So get ready for this- I'm going to argue that VGMusic is actually = the worst form of music! Seriously though, there are a couple things to consider here and I'm going to lay them out plainly. 1) Videogame music isn't meant to be listened to out-of-context. It isn't even really intended to be listened to at all, it is only intended to enhance the experience while you focus your attention on the gameplay. Video game music is like music for commercials, short jingles meant to direct your attention without actually containing any particular raw musical emotion. Because this is the nature of the purpose for video game music, it means that vgmusic composers have to dial-back their personal ideas and inspirations in order to write something appropriate for the overall vision. In other words, video game music isn't an art unto itself, but is part of the greater artistic collaboration of video game design. Aside from soundtrack music, every other genre is meant to represent the peak of the musician's talent, the pinnacle of their vision, and the ideals of the arranger's style. Videogame music is the only genre of music where musicianship (in the performance-oriented sense) doesn't actually come in to play. You could almost argue that video game music isn't even music at all. 2) Videogame music is like pop music. It's meant to have a catchy, memorable riff or melody without deviating very much so as not to confuse the listener. It's meant to be listened to over and over and over again and is meant to be very easily digested. It isn't meant to be experimental, it isn't meant to "push things forward", it is really, really simple music. It's just a combination of what's popular and what game designers know will work. In order for me to appreciate music as art (and not just disposable pop) I need to be able to hear that the composer has a new idea, a new angle, their own interpretation. This isn't what game designers want. Game designers want music that will have broad general appeal and they choose to stick to the basics. As video game music doesn't strive to exceed itself, I would have to say it's a pretty stale genre and it has a lot of room to grow. 3) Generally speaking, art (in it's many forms) is meant only for one purpose- expression. A poem expresses an idea. A picture expresses a vision. A song expresses an emotion. When an artist sits down to create, they do this because they have to share what they're feeling with others in the only way they know how. True art is the byproduct of blood, sweat and tears. However, at the same time art can be compromised when money enters the picture. Someone approaches an artist with money and says "Make this for me," and suddenly the artist isn't relating his vision anymore, but merely creating something "good enough" to satisfy the client. Commissioned art doesn't express itself, it simply meets requirements. Hypothetically, in an ideal situation where a videogame music composer has been tasked with writing a song that he feels really enthusiastic about writing and actually puts himself into the music, what will inevitably happen (and it is inevitable) is that the game director will hear it, and say something along the lines of "I like this and this, but this and this won't work, can you make that more like this?" The musical idea is compromised to make it more palettable with the overall gameplay idea. If the composer wants his money, he'll make the changes, and sacrifice his vision. So, to summarize my three points, video game music is part of a collaboration of several kinds of art who's purpose is to draw attention away from itself. Music, on the other hand, is meant to be expressive, push boundaries and summarize the composer's musical ideals. Real music doesn't hold itself back to gel better with someone else's vision. Real music grabs you by the teeth and doesn't let go until it's said what it has to say. Now before people blow this out of proportion (I must be crazy posting something like this, here of all places), I want to remind everyone that I'm just playing devil's advocate This isn't how I really feel, just an exageration.. being a (vastly underrated) remixer I'm actually keen on this genre of music and appreciate the artistic collaboration required to make it happen. However at the same time, I feel that the commercialization of music and the success of the thriving video game industry has resulted in some rather unfavorable "trends" in videogame music of late. Every other soundtrack sounds the same, and if it doesn't sound the same it's because the whole soundtrack contains liscensed music. With the exception of a handful of vg composers, I think the quality of video game music of late is at an all time low. (This might explain why all the stuff getting remixed on OCR is mostly from retro RPGs) Just my two cents. Please don't hurt me! PS: To the topic creator, good job on getting all this text out of me

A massive track from a veteran remixer. Amazing work, bLiNd! edit: Just wanted to add I especially love the second movement, that's definately what I call "Booty Bass"

I was listening to the FF6 version as a reference when I wrote it. Thanks for the positive feedback guys I've got another track in the queue and more in production, so it shouldn't be another 4 years before you hear from me again!

This is a really cool track. I like how you don't rely on the same sounds and patterns the whole mix, every moment feels like it has some sort of fresh new element driving things forward. This track has a very natural flow that is very important for trance music. Great work Jewbei!

Okay, so I've been playing this game like an addict since it came out on the 28th (got the PS3 CE). Finished my first playthrough and now I've been going through the strategy guide a fair bit for tips for how to build the optimal character. Now, if you're a completionist like me, you might find my discoveries pretty interesting, so please read on... My goal was to see if it was possible to build a character with 100 skill points in every skill (all 13 of them). And I have now determined that this is possible. What I'm going to spend the new couple paragraphs explaining is how. Mostly what it boils down to is two things: bobbleheads and skill books. According to the strategy guide, there are 25 skill books for each skill (except for one that only gets 24.) One of the perks you can get early on is Comprehension, this gives you 2 skill points instead of 1 for each skill book you read. So, already we're looking at 50% skill points for each skill, before any levelling up or anything. Then there's the bobbleheads. There is one bobblehead for each skill, and when you get it, it permanently raises your skill by 10 points. So, with skill books and bobbleheads, you're looking at 60% skill points already. Assuming you have at least 5 points in all your SPECIAL attributes at the start of the game, each of your skills will start at -at least- 15 points. So, now we've got 75% skill points. 25 left, doesn't seem like much does it? Here's another (somewhat more comprehensive) way to look at it. With 13 skills, that can each have 100 points, you're looking at a total of 1300 skill points to earn. So, assuming you get all the skill bobbleheads, each one nets you 10 skill points for each of the 13 skills, there's 130 skill points. Now, with all the skill books and the comprehension perk, you're looking at 25 books for 12 skills and 24 books for the other skill, so that's 324 skill books, for a total of 648 skill points. That's a total of 778/1300 skill points so far. Assuming each of your SPECIAL attributes starts with at least 5, then you get 15 skill points in each skill at level 1. So, 15 (points) times 13 (skills) equals 195 points. Also, at level 1 you get to tag three skills, which gives them a 15 point boost straight off. So that's another 45 points. Now our total points is up to 1018/1300. Another perk you can take (and should take asap) at level 4 gives you an extra 3 skill points every level up. Assuming you take this perk right at level 4, then by level 20 you'll have earned 48 extra skill points. Brings us up to 1066/1300. That just leaves 234 skill points between your character and perfection. But wait! With your starting INT of 5 (which I already assumed earlier), at each level up you're going to earn 15 skill points to spend. You'll get them 19 times before you reach level 20, so 15 times 19 is 285! You've got enough skill points with extras to spare! 51 extra skill points to be exact. And that's not even counting the additional skill points you'll get for having some of your SPECIAL attributes higher than 5. So, to summarize, if you want to min-max (which I will be doing with my next playthrough), then follow my guidelines here and you'll have the perfect character. It'll require some serious effort and careful skill point placement but it's definately doable. Also, because you'll have more than enough skill points, it frees you up to choose other perks you might not normally take that have unique benefits outside of raising your skill points. As for me, I'll be taking Intense Training a few times (gives you one extra point for a SPECIAL attr.) to try to max out my Strength, Endurance, Agility and Luck. If you actually read this wall of text, and it looks like I forgot something or made a mistake, please let me know.

The main thing I'd like to see, and I realize that this won't apply to everybody, but it'll still apply to a lot of people, is how you set up your workflow. Last I checked you were an FL Studio user, and I'd like to see how you use this program to get your ideas down. There's enough tutorials if you google around on topics like synthesis, sampling, mixing, mastering, and standard stuff like that. I don't think I've ever seen a workflow tutorial. I guess this request is similar to djp's, because if you walkthrough the creation of a ReMix, we'll all get a good look at how you structure your projects.

The CM magazine can be a great value considering what you'll get on the included DVDs. Apparently one of the synths you can get with it right now is the Genesis CM. I'm only pointing this out because this synth is the bomb. Here's a legal link to download the free, non-CM version of this synth: http://www.ozcan.gethost.nl/sdownloads.html I've seen and used a lot of free vsts, but this one takes the cake!

bLiNd, right now definately isn't your time. Just keep lots of positive energy in your life and we'll hear from you again when you're back to your old self!

You know, I never really thought of you as a trance producer until just now. Breathing You In (Original Mix) sounds great, the production values are clearly very high, Jill's vocals sound perfect and the arrangement is spot on. And, even underneath all the neccessary trance layers I can still hear that core Zircon sound.. that you've developed a style that is transcending genres I think says a lot. Hope you're enjoying your much deserved success!

I see where you're coming from, Kanthos, but please hear me out. From the looks of this thread (and others I've read) a lot of people came here looking for remixes of songs from a certain game, and after exhausting what OCR had to offer for that game, were satisfied and done with this site. But then later, they came back, because they were curious what else OCR had to offer. Now, if stories like that are actually commonplace, that would imply that 1) New users come here looking for something specific that they think they'll like, and 2) Once they hear some remixes they like, they're more likely to be repeat users. So, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a new user might, instead of coming here looking for a remix from a specific game, come looking for a genre specific remix. Now, as it is right now on OCR in particular, if you want to find a remix that fits into a genre you like, you have to read djP's paragraph or two of text and figure it out for yourself. That's asking a lot when you just want to know "does it go unts?" Now, the way I always figured the internet was meant to work, the user is supposed to be directed as quickly as possible to content they want. But what I'm seeing here is resistance to that. Actually, what I'm seeing from most people who are neg on the genres is the desire to force the user's hand, to tell them "Listen to everything!" But you can't do that! At least, not effectively. The user is going to do whatever they want, and if they end up listening to a remix they don't like, they're suddenly pretty likely to decide "This website is a waste of my time", instead of "Hey, this track was cool, I should see what else this site has to offer." I guess I'm saying that, for the sake of new users, genres should be built in to OCR (which I realize probably ain't gonna happen), but as for the OCR Genres page/resource, I think it's a great idea

Giving users an easy way to find remixes they'll like can only be seen as a good thing. That said, I like your site and I think OCR should sponsor it somehow (not that I have any pull around here). If a new user can log on and find a remix in a genre they like right away, they're more likely to stick around looking for more remixes.

I checked this out and didn't hear any CT samples at all.. just a string line (if you listen carefully to it in the very beginning of the track it actually sounds more like a horn sample) that at one point kind of sounds like a run from Secret of the Forest. Defused At least there's still CT Mix tape!

For serious? Happy birthday, Haroon!

Mortal Kombat has a thanks to The Immortals.Also don't forget the blood rave scene in the original Blade! Classic, classic techno. (Arguably classic movies)

All the sounds are so crisp, the arrangement is top-notch and really gets you pumping. The source tune is instantly recognizable and very appropriate for a trance remix. Every remix blind puts out sets a new standard for vg trance, and this track is no exception. This track sounds so good it practically sparkles. Amazing work from blind and leifo!

Squarepusher rocks the house! He should remix something for OCR. Probably something Final Fantasy (I mean, he is Squarepusher *kneeslap*) Seriously though, Squarepusher, Aphex Twin and Autechre make me so happy I could pee. Does anyone else do stuff along these lines that I've been missing out on?

You know, I really think I'd like to have that Luna II, but I doubt it works with Vista, just like my Audiophile 2496 *huff* Onboard sound sucks for production Maybe I should upgrade back to XP..

Sounds awesome man! You consistently produce tracks that rock my socks off. Hope this is the first commercial release of many

Well, I did write a track for it. Guess it's gonna be OCR-stuff eventually.

You should probably check out Vectorman: Remixed, bunch of good trance from the community up there. I dont think any of it's on OCR.

I hope everyone is still working on their tracks... if not then I guess there's gonna be a few new TA mixes on OCR.

That's too bad, Geoff. I was looking forwards to what you would produce. Well, maybe if you still feel an inclination to rearrange some Tetris Attack down the road, then we'll get to hear what you would have done anyways