Rozovian

I'm not, and a little bit of tact and reading comprehension on your part would be good. I started this thread to discuss primarily what developers could do to reduce piracy (my suggestion is to reward customers), not to make it a battlefield for you to indiscriminately lash out at anyone not beginning every post with an allcaps statement how teh piration is teh evulz. But sure, we can all hate on Joren for being cheap and shoplifting virtual goods. Hear that Joren? You're a virtual shoplifter. Teh evulz!

Dude, unless you have some really weird settings, the bit rate isn't among the issues with your music. Can't tell if the track you posted doesn't sound like it's suffering from any bit depth related problems, not something that's evident to me at least. It does sound like something out of a snes game tho, with fairly raw and not humanized instruments. I don't know what your dad is on about. Either he has good ears and is working with material where you can tell the difference, or he's going by some good advice from someone who can... or either you or he (or both) are confused about the term 16bit. Just focus on creating a cool sound and performance, realistic or not, with the stuff you have.

Dan, what could Tonehammer do to prevent piracy, or to encourage ppl to buy their stuff? What could your friend actually do about the situation? Could he offer otherwise secret freebies to his customers? Could he do competitions where only his customers can enter and win more Tonehammer stuff? Isn't that a better direction for this thread than hating on an underwater country?

So free hardware, on-site promotion of your work, gift cards to local music stores and stuff like that wouldn't work, you think? I mean, I reckon every company could host competitions for their registered customers to use a limited set of tools to create something in between a demo track and a competition track. Apple could do this with Logic, have ppl do tracks using only Logic's built-in effects. If they're not registered Logic users, their entries aren't considered for this promotion thing, and not eligible for any prizes or anything. A company like Apple that has a wide range of products could easily offer gift cards for their stores, same with Native Instruments and a few other bigger developers. Doing it in cooperation with audiomidi.com or other music-related stores would lead to a wider range of prizes - and more prizes for ppl who don't place quite as high, still rewarding them for not pirating that stuff. I don't know why, but I'm more interested in solutions than in piracy and morality. I really wanna hear your thoughts on what actually can be done rather than reiterations on every software piracy thread ever.

When the first thing you do in the morning is listen to these, the production sounds way too hard. On all of them. And I've been putting it off all week, not much time left to vote.

Dude, it's about time you did something this good. Really nice sound design here (with one exception). First minute and a half is quite conservative, and sometimes seems rushed (like at 0:53, tho that could just be how the leads comes in). It feels like you tried to get the source in there asap, breaking from the more withheld pace before. Could also just be the sound of the lead. Lead around 1:00 is a bit loud. It gets a little piercing some of the time, but I don't think it needs an EQ fix, just a levels fix. 1:36-3:02 is quite liberal, all I hear is some implied source is having an arpeggio in the background and roughly sticking to the chords and rhythm. I might be missing something, and it might not be that big a deal, but if I were you I'd make sure there was more source in there, even if it's just some background references and snippets and stuff. Conservative parts are conservative, liberal parts are liberal. Overall, it's hard to mistake this for a remix of anything else, or for an original track, but the original chords and emptier bits might as well be. Weird chord 2:23, and later repetitions of this. A bit awkward but it works. Production is ok, except for that lead. Doesn't need a big fix, but could be a bit softer. Some of its notes (like before 2:30) could blend together instead of retriggering the slow volume envelope. It's a matter of artistic choice, so consider it, maybe try it, and then do it if you feel it works better. Anyways, production ok, arrangement works, source usage is more borderline. Might be passable, might not be. Check with a judge, perhaps? Really nice work.

So we all like the idea of "try it before you buy it" without any restrictions common to demos and trial versions. And those of us who are serious about music either fork out for a legal copy (cheap and expensive software) or get by with free stuff. What could, for example, Native Instruments or Image-Line or Spectrasonics do to encourage ppl to buy their stuff legally? I mean, zircon is an FL power user, made one of the fl demo tracks for a recent version of FL... would this be possible if he had pirated the software? Did they check? I found that user-made Reaktor stuff tends to be locked away in a secret forum somewhere on NI's site, which means that you have to be registered to get it. Sure, someone could just DL them all and make a torrent, but if NI controls the servers they could just check which user has downloaded all of it. I don't remember, but it might be that you had to register using a key from the package itself. I found a similar thing with Toontrack. You had to register the software on their site, but then you had access to some freebies, updates, and stuff like that. And again, with Spectrasonics updating their already massive preset library - log in to dl update. While this prevents some unauthorized access to the stuff, it's a bit of a hassle for legal customers to remember registration info for a dozen products, along with all the forums and server space and whatever else we've got usernames and passwords for. Is there something that these companies could offer to registered users that isn't available otherwise? Promotion on their site, hardware, sponsorship in... something. Would exposing successful pirates do anything? (trying to steer the thread in the direction of incentives)

Exactly. Steam gives us a single place for lots of games, a convenient way to buy them and a way to access them from wherever, easy networking with friends in multiplayer games, special sales and deals... it's convenient. And it's a form of DRM... and a store... and an incentive. What do we get from buying from NI, or Spectrasonics, or Cakewalk, or wherever? Especially as, as Gecko pointed out, there's great free stuff out there. Also, I dig the FL license thing.

Semi-on-topic here: If we are talking about adjusting perceived volume, RMS metering could be used for dealing with the differences in perceived volume between stuff that's has clipped peaks and heavy compression, and more dynamic material. Dunno software that does this, but it seems like there's a tag in mp3 files (or just in the iTunes library, idunno) that could be adjusted. Wouldn't be perfect, but unless I'm missing something, it'd be a good way to level things out a bit.

Okay, so a kind'a provocative title. Here's a thought I've been meaning to blog about, but might as well put here to be discussed: What incentives do we have for buying Omnisphere, or Kontakt, or Z3TA, or Zebra, or whatever commercial tools we're looking at? Does buying it mean we get something that we wouldn't get with a cracked version? I'm the kind of person that pays for what I take seriously - like synths and DAWs and stuff. I'm wondering if that puts me at a disadvantage, and what developers of sample libraries, synths, effects, and DAWs could do to (and better yet, what they currently do) to have ppl actually buy their stuff. I mean, I sympathize with the random poor person with talent for music but who can barely afford the hardware and thus can produce better stuff with pirated software in order to improve his quality of life and maybe afford the stuff for realz (whether he then cares to puchase those tools is another matter). I kind'a get why someone would pirate something that lets them circumvent obtrusive dongles and stuff tho that's not a reason to not buy the software. I don't think it's fair, however, that ppl who pay for the stuff are at a disadvantage when pirates have access to everything... do software companies ever go after suspected pirates somehow? Thoughts on what the developers could offer to their customers only, the measures that could be taken to limit piracy or profit using pirated software, or piration in general?

Weather sounds. How original. Quite conservative when it's not original solos and stuff. It's a pretty good remix but I don't know if it's ocr material. it's varied but usually just variations of the short source played through. It's cool enough to be worth subbing; if it doesn't get posted, at least you'll see where it stands in regards to the arrangement bar. Kicks seems a bit loud, esp around the mids, but could have more punch (80-150Hz or something) imo, but a metal remixer or listener would know that better than I do.

itt prophet misunderstands. Stop picking on him for it. As has been said, you can do a lot with bad samples and basic synths if you get a decent performance out of them. Whether it sounds real or not is then no longer the issue, it's whether or not it rocks, it has groove, or whatever it's supposed to do. While it's best to have both, production plays a big part in it too. Badly mixed samples that are great won't sound great, just like crap samples mixed processed right can make for a decent mix. One of the biggest problems with cheap-sounding instruments is that they become static and often lack phat. These are both problems you can usually solve with effects, if not in the instrument itself. Chorus and overdrive are two useful effects for that. Someone recently suggested a short, warm reverb (before the big long obvious reverb) on bad orchestral samples to make them work better. Use whatever technique gets you a sound that works. While better samples make most of this stuff easier, you can do all right with cheap and free stuff as well. I got posted before I had bought any cool new synths, and I won a round of the GMRB without them too (main computer hard drive crash, used old laptop instead).

If I don't get the arrangement done enough within the first few days, the track will probably never be finished. Some of my best tracks have been made in less than a week, and others have usually had at least the most important bits completed within one. Production si something you can fiddle with a lot, but the basic structure is usually best to get done asap. Depending on what you mean by that, it could mean a few vertical stacks of writing, or a single horizontal one, or whatever.

Hilarious. I'm on the laptop so I can't say much about the production atm (except that it seems a bit lacking in the lows, especially the intro could use a low brass thing or something), nor do I know the source (but some variation in the backing wouldn't hurt. You could have a bit more variation to the "like a boss" parts too, the original goes from basically screaming it to sometimes just stating it, and sometimes more "bawss" than "boss". maybe you should this to the end: ??? (like a boss) profit (like a boss)

Do you really mean "like a 16-bit recording" and not "a recording from a 16-bit console"? There's quite a difference. The latter would be solved with better humanization and/or mixing.

Every now and then, we get newbs coming in with a new cool idea but don't know the site well enough to know why it's not gonna work. We get ppl submitting stuff that's way below the bar, we get ppl who just lurk on the forums and don't do anything. Could we put together a list of things ocr likes and needs, that anyone could help with? Something for the newbs to do while learning the site and how it works, getting to know the ppl here, how we do things, and whether their great idea would work or not. The stuff I suggest to newbs in the newb intro thread are: - review posted mixes - crit wips - post your own music - originals or remixes Beyond that, there's a few competitions that aren't about music, occasional non-music projects like the mascot bios, avatars, and... what else? Spamming other forums about ocr? What else can a newb do here? (move thread if better in Community or wherever)

You mean like the chiptune archives? Chiptunes (nsf, rsn and others) are one thing, and audio is another. There's site bandwidth to consider, and the legalities of uploading stuff that's being sold. With the tracks usually available on youtube and elsewhere on the net, there's not much need for ocr to host stuff like that anyway. Nice thought, but the way I understand things, it's not gonna happen.

Welcome. Every now and then, someone comes along with a game, wants music. Then the game never gets done, and someone's wasted their time on the music and stuff. If you guys are serious about this stuff, get a game going and come back and ask when you have some significant progress... if you haven't already made friends with remixers here already. When you have something tangible, count me as interested. Until then, good luck.

Gave it a quick listen so it wouldn't move to page 2 of the board. Not that great, really. Started off quite well with the piano, but the rest of the instrumentation is way too dry and doesn't mesh with the piano. They also have a newbish sound, which isn't helped by an arrangement that seems to be building up to another buildup only to fall down to the beginnings of another buildup. During the more intense parts, the sound really drags it down. It basically sounds like a nice sounding loop plus a bunch of default instruments without any processing. And I despise vocal effects. But that's just me. Next mix - more cohesive sound, more arrangement.

Only listened about a minute in, but I think the instrumentation could work all right if you process it right. Some reverb or delay on the e-piano for a little more room sound, give the tracks a more typical character with EQ and their own place in the frequency range. The arrangement, the first minute, is really just addition and subtraction of blocks. E-piano, fade out while fading in organ, add instrument 3, add instrument 4, add voice etc.. While that helps to keep the mix from getting too short, it's just not interesting enough to listen to. Either bring in the vocals earlier or write stuff more interesting. And yes, sing, SING! Sounds like you're just mumbling the melody now. Articulate more clearly, and sing louder and with confidence (it both sounds better _and_ makes it easier to hit the notes). You don't have to follow the melody of the original entirely, if the song, the lyrics would work better with a different melody, meter, or rhythm. because you're still referencing the original in whatever alt melody you're using (and the backing), it's still a remix. Also, EE, reverb does not solve clipping, you just lose clarity that way. Vocals tend to need clarity (reverb with a little extra pre-delay, or a delay effect, works fine on non-clipping vocals tho).

short version: Expect things to take time, make use of all feedback you get, try new things, and have fun. It takes about two years of time on ocr to get posted, and that's if you have some background in making music already and spend some time practicing and improving. The feedback boards, which I know you use, are a great resource for learning, both getting your own tracks critted and critting others as that'll teach you to listen critically and make you put into words the stuff you hear. Experiments are important, as they teach you new things. Challenge yourself to only use synths, only use one synth, or one track, or one waveform, or no external effects or something: limit yourself, and see what you can do under those conditions. You can also challenge yourself with the writing - write basic theme (less than 8 notes) and variations of it in rhythms and scales and stuff, only use melodies as harmony instead of stated chords, write in a new time signature or rhythm, try a new genre or two... Beyond Velocity was one of my experiments, and there's a certain amount of experimentation with Eye of the Storm as well. They did all right. And if this is all getting too exhausting for you, just do something for fun. Maybe a song that's just a joke, maybe just something to see where inspiration takes you... or just go out and do something fun that doesn't involve computers. Sometimes you gotta recharge your creative batteries by doing something else. Depending on your personality, this can be being around people, doing sports, seeing new places, whatever. If you wanna talk more music, feel free to hit me up on aim whenever, I'll respond if I'm around no matter what the status message says.

djp made the site, djp makes the rules, and djp makes the exceptions. As I see it, the only problem with allowing longer mixes is the evaluation, as they still have to be cohesive and not bad medleys, and have enough source and not 80% original solos and shredding, which leads us to the staff/inbox problem - everything submitted gotta be evaluated, and someone's gotta listen through all those >10minute-tracks and know them well enough to say if they're cohesive and have enough source. Requiring ppl to have a remix posted already would prevent random newbs from submitting their 40-minute "epics", keeping the number of looong subs down while still allowing ppl to get them on the site if they meet the standards. It's still a bandwidth issue, so perhaps those mixes should be posted right before a torrent is released, so ppl can get it that way instead of everyone getting it from the mirrors. Beyond that, it's just the same as a few regular mixes in file size, so it's not that big a deal compared to not having torrents up to date. Just my suggestion.

First it was entitled-y or something. Then it became history. Now it's funny, or at least supposed to be.

i am surprised that our battle isn't as close as it is't. i don't want to sound mean - i like his track a lot! but when some of the actual posted remixers - gario, neblix, rozovian, etc - vote for mine, and a bunch of people vote for his, that says something to me. it says that the people who think it sounds cool but might not know teh dynamics the best voted one way, and the people who understand the music and can hear the dynamics that was added in with mine voted the other way. i don't feel that his uses the dynamics much at all, and it seems that most people didn't bother to listen to the dynamics. all the parts that are mentioned as being awesome are just stuff that's inherent to the loudness war, which is bloody awesome. he didn't really add anything to it besides a compressor and different arrangement. that's not really a remix at that point, unfortunately =/ main finger, you're clearly a skilled producer - mastering that particular style is something i have next to no skill in - but your focus was clearly on your track and on arrangement instead of the production itself. if you beat me - which you might, there are a lot of people voting for arrangement and facemelting awesomeness instead of dynamics like they should - you really need to work on getting the dynamics to actually be dynamic instead of just dumping the audio behind a compressor and side-chaining the rest of it. you also need to work in the dynamics more, since you basically ignored it. i know dynamics sucks, but that's the point. it's supposed to be difficult you can't get better if you only use compressor and overdrive. you've gotta use reverb and delay and all the other crappy effects out there. that's why i never use a compressor until all that's left is the dynamics. it forces you to work with less, and you learn more at a faster pace that way. i realized after writing this that this sounds abjectly silly, and i do mean it to be. main's song sounds great as an arrangement of both sources. i don't think it stands up as a 50/50 split of dynamics, though, simply because it's nowhere near 50/50. and yes, i'm just posting this because prophet did it and somehow won. =)

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.