Crowbar Man

Also, I wouldn't call SpongeBob and AdventureTime great examples of maturity either. Almost feel those are mocking statements to me. Sure, they have some tiny elements in them, but to act like there is nothing between SpongeBob and Mass Effect is a bit strange. But that is neither here nor there. Again, I don't think its mature to seek out "adult things" because "you are an adult" instead of just enjoying whatever material comes your way. But whatever floats everyones boats. Time to go back to Nintendo/Wii U discussions!

Actually that what has been said (mostly by Rama) specifically multiple times that you can't have mature themes unless its M rated, which isn't true and what my argument was. As far as your example, you could work a scene similar to that and still have a lasting impact with a T rating. The blood/violence isn't really for maturity but for "shock value", which... the game IS called BioShock (Love that game BTW) Earthbound: $10 is technically super cheap for Earthbound if you compare it to the $150+ it goes for on eBay. I still think their VC games are still a priced too high overall, but if any game deserves a slight premium it would be EB. Who is going to throw a tantrum over a $1 anyways? It isn't like they are charging 50% more or higher. Though it is strange they charged the US more, and released the game for .30 for a limited time in Japan... kinda backwards.

DarkSword: If a game doesn't have blood/guts/cursing/etc, but have elements such as loss, love, dealing with things on a mature level, it gets rated as Teen. Blood/Guts/Cursing ARE generally what bumps up a game to M. Constantly saying you have to be M to have mature story elements is wrong.I'm not even talking about Nintendo BTW, just stating games in general. Doesn't matter what platform or company is being discussed. This applies to videogames in general. (However, I already mentioned Nintendo generally doesn't bother with 2nd/3rd party items. They wouldn't touch the game if Atlus became 2nd party, but I really doubt that Nintendo is going to buy them.) Mass Effect containing those elements doesn't make it good. Being a good game makes it good, and containing those elements enhanced that. If the underlying game wasn't good none of that would matter. Being M doesn't magically mean it will contain those elements either, nor does not being M mean it wont have any of those elements. The M has little to nothing to do with why it is a good game or what the game contains. M is simply a content rating. (ESRB M due to: Blood, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content, Strong Language, Violence.) I still don't buy into the "I'm an adult, so I play M rated games". It seems incredibly immature and that was precisely the response i got when I said "I don't understand peoples obsession with games having to be rated M rated" But since I'm not even talking about Nintendo or Wii U at this point I guess I'll move on.

Again indicating you can't have any of these elements if your game isn't M rated. The Love one really gets me, because obviously you need blood/guts/cursing/etc to show a tale of people who are in love with each other. Obviously you can't be sad over loss unless there is blood/guts/cursing either. Again these statements just seem to be ignoring the fact that there are so many games out there, especially RPGs, that have these elements and aren't M rated. The Mass Effect 2 and Fallout examples: Those are elements within a great game. I don't think anybody bought them specifically because they were M and they expected those situations. What I don't understand is why any of this is required for a game to be good in the first place, and why specifically people seek these dark "mature" things. Again, specifically wanting nothing but dark, unhappy, dramatic games seems off balanced. I don't think people naturally seek these things, especially just "because they are an adult" People should (and often do) just enjoy good entertainment. It shouldn't matter if its E, T, M, G, PG-13, R, etc. If you can't enjoy a good film or game or TV show just because blood isn't pouring down the screen, you really can't be much of an "adult" Other M: Personally, I didn't enjoy how it was very little to do with Metroid in general. The gameplay was more like a 3D brawler that happened to have a Metroid skin. Walking around with a Dpad instead of using a nunchuck seemed a dumb decision, and it made aiming your missles with the pointer akward and even dumber. They could of done a 2.5D Metroid and made the game way better. However, Brandon thinks Super Metroid is a dated and terrible game too, so I wouldn't take his opinion too much at heart either.

I don't think a mature adult would want to watch entertainment SOLELY with "adult" themes. That is like only wanting to watch rated R movies. How "adult" is it to imply anything less than R "isn't for adults"? Same there here. Implying anything less than M "isn't for adults". Especially the part implying that T rated games have no plot, no dialog, mature themes, people that even die, etc. Its like ignoring the ENTIRE RPG genre, the PW series you posted, etc. That is ridiculous If you want to limit yourself to M games, whatever I guess? I don't find that very mature myself but whatever floats your boat. I've played most of those games on the list, I can't say I would of rather played ONLY those than EVERY SINGLE GAME OTHER GAME EVER CREATED because "they aren't M". And those games aren't good because they are rated M either, they are just good games. If some of the content was cut and the rating lowered to T, they'd still be fantastic games. I'll stick with playing everything under the sun that is good, you can stick with your M rated stuff if you want. Seems like a problem to me though focusing on an ESRB rating instead of enjoying a game. And far from "mature"

Nope! Take some simple examples: GTA series, Saints Row series, Conker's Bad Fur Day, nearly every single FPS made from Doom foward (especially Duke), Mortal Kombat, heck you can probably throw any action game with tons of gore in there (God of War comes in mind) in there. "Mature"/"Adult" games generally aren't mature in content. Most games that deal with things in a mature/adult manner actually get rated Teen (Most Japanese style RPGs for example). Obviously there are M rated games that aren't quiet as immature (HL2, MGS, Deus Ex, SS2/BioShock, Mass Effect, etc) but those are fewer compared to the giant mass of M rated titles. Doesn't look like it. :/ Err... I wouldn't go THAT far.

Ah yes, obviously you can't have anything mature and on an adult level without being rated M. Everything below M is childlike and not worth playing, because you sir, are an adult. In my experience, most M rated games are generally the most immature games. Blood/Gore/Violence/Cursing does not make a game "mature" IMO. I don't know how being obsessed with playing M rated games would make you an "adult" either honestly. Seems kinda childish... or a condition. Again this coming from a guy (also "adult" I guess?) who plays M rated games regularly (I don't pick them because they are M, they just happen to be). A games ESRB label shouldn't matter. I thought the previous PW games were pretty dark / mature as is. Either the ESRB is cracking down or something weird has been added to this new one. (psst, also, not only not Nintendo, but not even a Wii U title, way off man)

Nintendo just needs to release some damn games to help get itself turned around! The 4th can't get here any faster Yeah, but M rated games aren't exactly rare these days. There are an overabundance of them. Fire Emblem is fantastic as an E or T rated game, there isn't a need for it to be M for example. I'm just saying games don't have to be M to be good. I wouldn't play Dues Ex, RE(4 and earlier), SS2, MGS, etc just because they are rated M. I play them because they excellent well designed games Also, judging by RE5 and RE6, it would take a miracle to make the next RE game good. Being E would probably be the least of its problems.

Internally, Nintendo generally doesn't like to make M titles. They have 2nd parties (ie Rare (once upon a time), Silicon Knights, etc) and publish 3rd party (Platinum) material for M rated stuff. If Nintendo did acquire Atlus, they would more than likely become a 2nd party, therefore no issue with M rated material. But... does an M really make a game any better per se in the first place? Seems like a lot of people are obsessed with a game having that M on it. Also as mentioned, Nintendo generally doesn't go out of their way to acquire large companies. So rumor probably isn't going to happen. Atlus and Nintendo do have a pretty cozy relationship right now either way

I mentioned this quiet a few times: Big publishers tried to put games on the Wii U to cash on a possible repeat of the Wii. That didn't happen. So publishers (Well mostly just EA) are pulling support because they are only interested in large numbers. Ubi isn't pulling support by the way, they are making plenty of games on Wii U. They still have quite a few big titles coming out on Wii U (Watch Dogs, Rayman Legends, Splinter Cell: BL, AssCreed 4, etc), just nothing exclusive as of right now. Saying they dropped support isn't true. I don't care anyway because I probably wouldn't get the Wii U version of any 3rd party multi platform game myself. Anybody who bought a Wii U solely for 3rd party games is a bit goofy anyways (Completely ignoring reviews/facts and trends/history and the impending new consoles) Multiple times mentioned this too: Nintendo is the only one that can get Wii U's numbers up. No 3rd party will magically rescue them. Nintendo is attempting to repair the situation by releasing a bunch of their hits here in the near future. This is bound to increase sales. Once the numbers go up, some publishers/devs might return/invest more into the Wii U. Nintendo is at fault for the Wii U nose diving because instead of creating a bunch of quality titles, they released a few tech demos and tried to let 3rd parties have the spot light. Terrible idea. You can get these games elsewhere, and better. "You can get the same games here, they run almost as good (sometimes maybe not), only we are more expensive" isn't a good campaign No I do not think they will ever reach Wii numbers at this point, and probably wont even nearly reach PS3/360 numbers. Third party support may not even return, especially once devs start dropping 360/PS3 level games. But as long as there are good games made / published by Nintendo (and any 3rd party who takes a chance on the machine), who cares? For example: Pikmin 3! Finally!! Its coming and I can't wait! Also in case you guys didn't see earlier: EARTHBOUND on Wii U VC is out today!! For those who haven't experienced the magic of this game, HIGHLY recommended.

System Sellerrrrr!!

I'm pretty sure it is running in real time. You could change the lighting and camera angles on the tech demo. They used tons of lights to show off realtime lighting, it would be weird to be prerendered Unless I'm missing something. Now of course, this is just a graphics tech demo. The scene is running without physics, ai, etc but still looks nice to look at. Either way, this Zelda looks better than that picture you posted. That looks pretty bland to me

Zelda Tech Demo running on Wii U looks way better than that

See guys? System Sellerrrrrrr lol

Brushfire: I agree with you there, Saints Row is a pretty colorful game. He didn't list Saint's Row. Half of what he listed was bunch of dark gritty games that only had small splashes of color here and there. Big difference. Saint's Row still has an overall dark tone to it though I don't think Saint's Row is happy go lucky family oriented fun at all =p I listed the games I was talking about that more so matches the definition. A whole bucket load of games. I don't know why you keep listing a dictionary definition of just the word colorful. Even that barely matches the games that were listed. You guys are being very nitpicky. I've come up with a whole giant list of games I was refering to and all you guys keep doing is bringing up games full of blood and violence. What is wrong with you guys? lol Its a pretty sad state though when you guys can't find many AAA high quality big publisher games that ARE NOT full of blood and violence. Keep in mind, I just finished Last of Us (I loved it). I'm not saying these games aren't good, or beautiful works of art on their own right. They are clearly a different type of game than say, Mario and Sonic. 0_o Again that is why I have multiple consoles. The blood filled / gritty games on PS3/360 (and soon PS4/XBO). The happy go lucky fun family oriented games on Wii & Wii U. Sometimes you can get one on the other, but this is generally how it works for a majority of the library. Moving on: Super Luigi U! Pikmin 3! Someone talk about the actual games on the Wii U. Too much negative vibe Here is a bunch of "bad graphics": Platinum:

*Sigh* Well before this winds up a bunch of people yelling at each other again: Pikmin 3 is coming out next month. Who here is picking it up? I am

Hmm. An incredible game as Bayonetta you call a poorly made DmC clone, yet you love Dante's Inferno which is literally a poorly made GoW/DMC clone. Hmm. I'll actually agree with you on this one. No they shouldn't of. It was an extremely dumb idea and did not push any units as a result. It may have actually worked if they had a decent CPU in the unit and the 3rd party ports worked well and the unit was the same price as other competitors, but none of this happened. Complete failure on Nintendo's part. And they are rectifying it by doing what they do best: Making Nintendo games. Errm... No Ni Kuni was on the PS3 (Weak GPU, difficult CPU). Most of the "bad ports" on Wii U I mentioned, while chug compared to the 360 game, some still out perform or match the PS3. Wii U's issue is its CPU, not its GPU. No Ni Kuni isn't even a graphical powerhouse on the PS3 even, its strength is in its beautiful art, animations, etc. That just needs talent and disc space (Wii U has a 25GB disc). Some of its textures are pretty bad actually and it has a lot of blocky background models here and there. Great game though but if it can run on PS3 it can run on Wii U and then some. You've played Nintendo Land right? That is a game designed solely for the Wii U, even with its simpler style it should give you an idea of what the Wii U can handle in terms of sheer graphical prowess. Its really hard to tell if you aren't trolling all the time Brandon. I feel bad if you aren't though :/ Neblix; Look if you want to put Sleeping Dogs and happy go lucky colorful family oriented games in the same category you can. You'd be wrong, but you can. I made a giant list of games I was referring to. Again, here is the list of games I was refering to: I even forgot Rayman. No violence doesn't negate color, but you know... when you pick games that aren't even particularly colorful (a splash of color on a gritty bland background isn't colorful) AND are full of violence, when I was referring to the style Nintendo uses (obviously) its a bit odd.

Err except when I said "outside of the Indie scene" and you list Indie games. :/ Indie games are more colorful because they are games usually created by people who want to make games the way they want rather than focused on what will sell. They make them more artsy and creative because that is what they wanted to do. I'm a very very large fan of the Indie scene and probably have played more indie stuff than AAA in the last couple of years Oh if we could only have such luck :/ DarkeSword: I dunno, I don't consider much of what he posted as "colorful", just dark gritty games that have a splash of color in them. Sleeping Dogs for example... what color does that have other than neon lights in the city? It isn't a colorful game. Its a dark realistic GTA alike. Most of the examples he provided are also full of violence, which I guess you can technically mix violence and color but it seems weird to provide these as an example when talking about Nintendo style games *shrugs* When I think "Colorful" i think Mario, Sonic, Kirby, Crash, Spyro, Klonoa, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Tomba, Bomberman, Sparkster/Rocket Knight, a lot of JRPGs (like the ones he mentioned), Kingdom Hearts, several Treasure games, etc. These games are ACTUALLY colorful. Not... Darksiders, Sleeping Dogs, Brutal Legends, etc. The hell is "colorful" about those games? He has also been heavily trolling, saying everything Nintendo makes looks bad and calling happy light hearted fun games "fisher price games" :/ I think he hates happiness I do like the list of games he provided though. They ARE some examples of the industry doing something other than the status quo (kinda). It still is a pretty small list, spread across multiple companies, multiple consoles, and across an entire generation. But a good list of why obviously more than one gaming machine is needed to enjoy the full spectrum of gaming. Bayo 2 is the closest thing to the kind of style Brandon likes on the Wii U published by Nintendo (developed by Platinum). (Note: he also says he likes the way Pikmin 3 looks. Yet he never says anything good about Bayo2/Pikmin3 while he bashes the Wii U over and over. Convenient!) I wouldn't expect to see too much of these types of games he listed on the Wii U by Nintendo simply because those types of games aren't Nintendo's style. They aren't into hyper violent games, the only "violent" games Nintendo has published games have usually been 2nd (Rare, when they had them) or 3rd party (Platinum). If all you are interested in is violent games, Wii U is a pretty poor choice. If you are interested in colorful happy fun that can be enjoyed by the entire family however, Wii or Wii U is generally your best bet as it will have generally more of that kind of content than PS3/PS4/XBO/360. Most of it by Nintendo themselves!

RPGs (like No Ni Kun and KH3 mentioned earlier) still try to capture that colorful style. They are few and far between though compared to brown shooters and now "realistically styled RPG" that seems to becoming more and more popular. Nintendo did have Earthbound... they need more Earthbound :/ They still have Fire Emblem and Mario & Luigi though. Most of these (sans a few "colorful" ones) are dark gritty games full of violence/bood and for the most part some of these are pretty realistic. The hell Brandon? Youre definition of "colorful" is a bit odd Probably goodish example, but it wasn't exactly Nintendo level of polish or quality. Pretty damn good though! Oh hey, these are some of those indie games I talked about, and totally not AAA games made by big publishers. Right on! Why are you listing them though? Well by colorful I certainly didn't mean completely colored in red blood. Monster.

BioShock Infinite is a a "colorful" CoD clone full of violence and blood. I beat it already. Boring gameplay (remember my comments in the Infinite thread? still sticking to em) IMO at least. So instead of it being a "Brown shooter" it is a "slightly less brown shooter". Not a good example. How the heck can you stick BioShock Infinite in a colorful happy fun game category anyways, you monster? (j/k lol) No No Kuni is a pretty good example, but rare. It was made by Studio Ghibli for God's sake. How many games can say they have an entire animation studio behind it? Thats it? Heck i can provide more examples that actually fit: KH3 (Coming sometime in the future on PS4/XBO) Knack (Coming to PS4 exclusive, but looks like its just a colorful brawler. Nice Pixar like FMVs though?) Ratchet & Clank (Kinda hard to call this series colorful though, its in space so mostly black, and he uses big guns and shoots things all over the place. Its light hearted at least, and the ONLY 3D Platformer series left outside of Nintendo) This isn't a huge list

Try naming a couple Brandon. And we're talking A+ material, not licensed crap or bargain bin games nobody would play. I play a crap ton of games on every single platform. Do tell me where all these wonderful colorful top notch games are

^^ This The Wii U is exactly opposite of PS3/360/PS4/XBO in this respect. I am looking forward to all the happy colorful beautiful games coming out for it, which I know will play awesome because Nintendo is one of the best in the business. I will get all OTHER types of games elsewhere (PS3/360/PS4/XBO) but I can't find many colorful games on a AAA level on those platforms. Indies generally are the only ones making colorful games and most of those don't even come to consoles.

Animal Crossing was pretty stable on the DS/Wii too though from what I recall.. there isn't much going on anyway Fighters are a completely different story. They are notoriously hard to do online. Smash only increases the difficulty because of 4 players and all the crazy stuff going on the screen. Others have tried just doing regular fighters through multiple generations (like Namco Bandai) and have finally got it right. Nintendo has only tried it once... not so good.

I haven't played Mario Kart 7 yet (just got a 3DS last month), but Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon while really fun is bugged like crap in its online mode. As long as you don't come across a game breaking glitch its super fun and pretty smooth, but when you hit a bug you just have to wait for your team to lose. Happens about 1 out of 10 times I play give or take. So that is my only experience with Nintendo's online service on 3DS :/ Plus a fighting game is a LOT harder to do than a racing game online. I don't remember even Mario Kart Wii having very many issues VS SSBB. What fighting game has Nintendo themselves made on 3DS to prove they've improved?

Brandon: You either haven't seen previews of ANYTHING they showed at E3, you have very bad eyesight, or you are trolling. We will also definitely have to disagree on Mario 3D World, because that looks awesome from a graphics/style/aesthetics viewpoint. Not Mario Galaxy level of awesome art style direction, but awesome none the less. If you are going to tell me that: Nintendo Land Mario Kart 8 Mario 3D World Super Smash Bros Wii DKCR:TF or what they are publishing with: Wonderful 101 Bayo 2 X All have bad/undetailed/bland graphics: You are wrong and/or you have bad opinions. Sorry. You also think Pikmin 3 looks good yet you've told us you have no interest in it. So what the heck do you want? Brushfire: I am going to assume you are joking =P