Bowlerhat

The funny thing about music is that everyone approaches it differently. A lot of people in the music industry don't really have the koalafications for writing music, and yet they still make money with it. Other people actually have a lot of knowledge about their field, but they don't manage to make enough money to feed themselves. You say you have all the tools to compose, but I personally find that a bit of an odd thing to say. All you need to compose is your mind. And if you also want to pass it along to other people you might need a pencil and some paper as well. In the current time and age that could also mean you've got sibelius, or finale or an account on Noteflight. But, in the current time and age it could also mean you've got a recording device and a piano, and you're composing your own piano compositions. It could also mean you've downloaded fruity loops, and are making some beats. Or maybe you bought a guitar and are now singing your own songs at the local pub every Friday night. Naturally ,it could also be something entirely else... Now, to come back to your original question, it greatly depends on the kind of music you want to compose. If you want to compose orchestral pieces, and have them played by real orchestra's, then I'd definitely say that grades matter. Because having a teacher who has experience with such things is crucial to such a complicated and time-consuming project. Schools that teach such things also have the connections and facilities to have your yet to be made orchestral pieces played, which is, as mentioned before, a must for starting composers. On the other hand, if you make your orchestral pieces yourself, in some kind of Daw and a midi keyboard, then you don't really need to have your pieces played, as you kind of play them yourself. It's the same with self played piano pieces, sing and songwriter love songs and generally everything that doesn't require other people to get the sound you want. But... it's quite complicated to determine if you need to follow some kind of education in order to make such music. Besides music being a very subjective and personal thing, it is still somewhat possible to see if music is 'good' or not. Some people do not have any education in music, and yet produce some very cool stuff. Other people do not have any education in music, and produce some very uncool stuff. It depends on the person. And, as I mentioned earlier, your music doesn't have to be 'good' in order to make money out of it. Something however which is kind of certain, is that, if you follow an education in music, it really improves your music. So, if you're not sure if you're a musical genius, and you want to make 'good' music, then I'd say that grades matter. Because that allows you to follow an education in music. Which doesn't immediately mean that you have to compose orchestral pieces. There are lots of music educations focused on electronic music, pop music, rock music and other such things. If you're already confident that the music you're composing is sure to sell well, and you know how get it to the general public, then you don't really need a teacher or a certificate or anything else school related. But, even then there is a difference between thinking that you're making 'good' music and actually making 'good' music. And the people who can tell the difference between those two things and help you in crossing that bridge are music teachers, working at conservatories and music schools.

This is just soooo good!!! I already knew it from their youtube channel, and I was already half expecting it to arrive here as well, but it nevertheless still completely blew my mind. In my humble opinion it's their best piece yet.

As someone studying composition I can totally relate to your problem. Right now we're doing this huge project, and for the last few months we've been working on it furiously. I'd work on my piece everyday for weeks, and every Monday at class we'd show it to him. Every time I'd be a bit excited and proud of the stuff I did. Coincidentally, after almost every class I'd feel like going home, cry, and just ly in my bed for the rest of my life. I didn't do such a thing, but our teacher is quite harsh and every week everyone would get quite a lot of criticism (feedback) on our compositions that we had been working on for so long and of which at least I thought was sounding quite nice but apparently didn't work at all. I'd be lying if I'd say it wasn't demotivating. And then yesterday, I presented my umptheemth version of the song, and then my teacher patted my shoulder and said: "okay, that was quite good". And now, when I compare it to my first version, it really is whole lot better. And I never would have gotten it that good without writing all that other less good versions. So, yeah. Keep writing, be prepared to be told that it doesn't work, ask how you can change it and keep repeating that process. The workshop here at OCR is a really nice place for that, but getting face to face feedback from some local composers is really helpful as well. All of the composers I've met so far are all really nice, and generally prepared to help new composers with their stuff.

Thanks for the feedback!!! I made a new version, which is shorter and more source oriented. I also tried to make the piano sound fuller, and I think it's better now. https://soundcloud.com/jorik-bergman/genos-gentle-goodbye-v-2 So, if anyone has some more improvements, or just some general advise. Or maybe something that he or she really liked, then be sure to let me know!!

Bump

Hey guys!! So I made this flute + piano cover of Goodbye Geno from Super Mario RPG. It's finished, but I'm not completely satisfied with it yet, so I might make a remake of it. Fun fact, this is already the 3rd remake. I'm a bit worried that it might be too hard to detect the source, and there are a few wrong notes in the piano. The flute playing isn't flawless as well. But since I might remake it anyway I didn't want to bother with the minor details too much. A few things I'm not sure about is the recording quality, the source appearance, the length, the tempo swing, the abstractism. The cover is inspired by GENTLE LOVE, as they are totally awesome. Any feedback or opinions regarding the things I pointed out, some things I didn't point out and even things that were already quite okay anyway is greatly appreciated and will earn my eternal gratitude!! Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TffGZpMLJpE My thingy: https://soundcloud.com/jorik-bergman/genos-gentle-goodbye

What I think is the coolest about this mix is that the nice voicings are reserved for the ending. This doesn't only make this piece climax at the end in a dynamic way, but also in a harmonic way. This makes it extra satisfying to listen to. Really cool mix!!

At the end, when the chanting, the "carry oooon" backing vocals and the main chorus comes together it's just so immensely satisfying. Not only because the different melodies complement each other so well, but especially because before that point we've only heard those melodies in other contexts. It's amazing how they tackled such a simple source in such a complicated and amazing way!!

This is definitely one of the best remixes on ocr in my opinion. The arrangement is just so creatively done. The combination of source material and original material is astounding. As a huge jazz lover I just can't wait for their next release.

I really like the reharmonization. But some of the orchestral sounds are bugging me. Especially at the horns. For example the oboe (?) that plays a few parts at the beginning. For example at 00.07 and 00.40. I can totally imagine 00.40 as a nice oboe part, but right now the oboe sounds too round and clunky. It's first of all really obvious that it's played on a midi keyboard instead of through breathing, and there's not an ounce of emotion in it. The strings and percussion sound so much better. Some other part that sounds really odd is the english horn (?) at 01.27. It's really high pitched and just generally unfamiliar. But the idea itself is really cool and the reharmonization and instrumentation really creates a nice ambiance.

This is just soooooooo good. The way they do so much, with so little notes is absolutely brilliant. This is definitely one of my favorite mixes on this site.

Yeeaaah, finally an undertale mix. And a good one as well. I really like the choice of instrumentation. It fits the different moods perfectly

Hmm, it's an interesting approach. I didn't notice that you didn't use an actual baritone, but it is noticeable that the bari sounds less good, and more out of tune, then the other lines. So I wouldn't say it's a bad approach, but learning to play multiple saxes really has its advantages, and is a lot easier and better in the end. I'm not sure a clarinet would add much in this mix. You don't really need much more at the higher end, imo. But, a clarinet is a really useful instrument, so I'd still advice to get better at it. As for your bass problem, I think it wouldn't be nessecary to have a bass in it. If you arrange your bari sound better, then you already have a better overall sound. When I arrange, most of the time I give the Bari and bass the same lines. But, if you were to get a bass, then it'd be easier, arranging wise. I'd personally just ask a bassist to help me, as I don't know how VSTi's work, but that's just a matter of personal preference. I think what's important to remember is that when you choose your instrumentation, it doesn't really matter what's usually used, or is easier to do. In the end it all comes down to what sound you're trying to get. Two weeks ago, I had a workshop from John Clayton, who is a really well known bass player and arranger for big band, and he told me: "There is no good or bad music. In the end, as a composer or arranger, you're trying to mirror the music inside your heart. And you can't judge someone's heart.". So if you imagine your mix to be something with a bass line, or with clarinets or whatever, then you should try to capture that sound. If you do not, then you should do whatever you can to get the sound you do desire. As for voicing, it really is complicated. The feeling I get when I listen to your mix is that you don't really know what chords you're using and that you're just playing whatever sounds nice. Which isn't really how arranging works. I think that before jumping into voicing things, you first should get some information on music theory, and then especially seventh chords, tensions and all that stuff. And getting some experience with transcribing is nice as well. I don't know if you figured this song out by ear, or by midi/sheets/anything else, but you really should do everything by ear imo. You're a good musician, so I think you'd be able to do that with some practise. (If you didn't already). Good luck!!

Yeah, voicing is quite hard. I think what went wrong in your mix is that you tried to include too much things in it. It kind of makes sense that you want to fill the soundscape as much as possible because you only have saxes and drums, but you can't fit so much lines of the same kind of instruments into one phrase. I'll try to analyze some parts a bit, and explain what you could improve. Something that's really odd about this mix is that you voiced everything for 3 horns. It may seem logical, because you've got three horns. But it's odd because you don't have a bass, or guitar, or any other kind of other instrument other than those three horns. So you're missing all of the bass tones. I'm not sure, but I'm going to assume you used an alto, tenor and bari. I'm not that familiar with saxes, so I could be wrong. But if my assumption is right, then I'd suggest to change the bari and tenor parts a bit. I think it'd be best to just have the bari play the bass chord tones. You could have a few lines in between, or leading from chord tone to chord tone, but at least give us, as the listeners, some harmonic context. Right now there is a lot of harmonic context missing, and it sounds quite empty. As for the tenor, when you're writing for 2 horns, the bari excluding, and you're using a lineair approach (since that's what you're doing), it's important that the two voices, when played above the chord tone, always imply the harmonic progression. That's also why it's important to have the bari play the chord tones. So, when the lead for example plays the third of the chord, the second voice could play the seventh, or perhaps the fifth. Not something like the sixth, or the tonic. And especially not the second or the fourth, since that clashes with the third. There are obviously quite some more things about voicing for 2 horns, but this is the thing that is going wrong the most. Your writing has a lot of countermelodies. Which is really nice, I especially like the last high alto line. But the melodies have to fit into the harmonic soundscape that you're creating. If it doesn't, it creates the clashing you've got right now. Also, for the tuning, it's especially in the baritone sax. For example at 00:59, but not only there. I hope this helped a bit!

Hey, I like most of the original work in it, but some of the part sound a bit awkward melodically. Also there are quite some harmonic clashes in your writing. Tensions are nice, but not when you play them on the top of your voicing. Some minor parts are a bit out of tune as well. But overal it sounds nice!!

Wow, I can't believe I almost forgot that... Thanks for reminding me!!

Just a quick question. if I were to, for example, write an orchestral arrangement of some kind of song and send it to ocr. Would it then be preferred to include the sheet music in the submission post, or should I send it somewhere else? Or is this question asked too early and isn't there any kind of standard for it, yet?

Hey, First of all, i'd like to say to you've definitely got the right attitude to improve!! Even though there is a lot to say about your mix, if you keep your mindset as it is, then you're sure to get better . Second of all, hip hop isn't really my forte, but I'm gonna try to help a bit anyway. What you should do, if you haven't already, is to listen to all the other remixes on this site on aquatic ambiance, and listen to the way they implemented the source material into their mix. What's really noticeable about your remix is that it is 100% source material, even though that isn't necessary. I don't know if you already know this remix, but I'm gonna throw in this hip hop mix as an comparison, so that you know what you could improve on. I'm not going to comment on your mixing, as there are a lot of people on this site who know a lot more about that. (If you do not know the source I'd recommend checking that out as well.) Structure: Your mix uses the same kind of harmonic and melodic structure the whole time. This makes it very repetitive and kind of dull. Especially since it's the same structure as the original source. It makes sense for hip hop, but you could/should throw in some kind of bridge or variation at times. In the mix I posted as a comparison the bridge it uses is 100% new material, which isn't necessary, but it does give a fresh feel to it. You should keep in mind to keep the same vibe in the bridge as in the rest of the song, though, since the bridge still has to be a part of the whole remix. Instrumentation: You switched your instrumentation quite a lot in your mix, which is nice. It wasn't always done perfectly, but it did give some variety. But, you should keep in mind that when you want to write nice music, the parts you write have to be nice as well. In "Memories Frozen in Time" there are a lot of layers, some ambient, some groovish, some countermelodic. In your mix it's the same, but what's essentially different between the two mixes is that the parts in MFiT make some melodic sense. It's more important to have the music be horizontally correct, than to have it vertically correct. It doesn't make sense to add some more layers, if the layers itself aren't fun to listen to. Source handling: You handle your source very direct. All of the parts from your remix, are in the same place as they are in the original song. There is no variation, expansion or any kind of switching at all. There is some delay until the main melody comes in, but that's it. If you listen to MFit, you can see that they put some vague source in the countermelodies, that there are some variations on the main melody and that the bass only starts playing the original bass line after the bridge. Which gives a really nice effect, because, if the original bass line would have been played from the beginning, it would have been pretty tiring to keep hearing the same bass the whole song. I'm not saying you should do the same thing, but you do need to keep in mind that there are other alternatives to implement a motive than what's used in the original song. Okay, that's it. There's probably a lot more to say about your mix, but that's all I can think of at this moment. I hope it was useful. Also, you probable won't get everything right at your next try as well, but if you keep trying and trying you're sure to improve. Experience is really important when you make music.

I personally think that when you make music, especially for a non-profit kind of thing like ocr, it's actually really important to see as much reviews as possible to your remix. Not necessarily to improve, but because it can be really motivational to see people like your music. And then not just some "wow, I really like this", but at least a "wow, I really like this, because..." kind of response. My mum says she likes my music, but she can't give as fine a reason as a fellow vgm lover that actually knows what I'm remixing. Seeing people liking your stuff, and besides that also knowing what you're actually doing, is so much cooler than just hearing some random bloke saying he/she likes your mix. And I think that the review panel is a really good place for that kind of thing. As I'm relatively new to this place I don't know how it was in its days of supposed glory, but I do know that right now it isn't really as nice as it could be. But, since I've never left a review myself, I don't really have any right to speak... Although, I think that after reading this topic I just might start doing it.

Hmmm, so much options... Democratically speaking, logic sounds like the best pick, but since I also still have to buy Sibelius, new speakers, clothes and pay €400 of service costs for my new room I think it'll have to wait a few months. In the meantime I'll try some of those free trial versions. Thanks for the dawesome advice, people!!

Heey, I recently bought a new laptop and I want to continue my recording stuff on it. But I'm not sure what DAW I should get. I'm fine with spending money on getting it, but I'm just a poor student so anything that's too expensive isn't preferred. I don't really make electronic music, since I've got no idea how to do that. But I've got quite a lot of instruments so I mostly just record and layer different instruments. Before I got a laptop I used Windows Magix Music Maker, but since I've got a MacBook now I don't think I can use that program anymore. Is there anyone here with lots of DAWly knowledge that would know a program which fits my needs and doesn't require me to sell my new laptop in order to buy it?

20 second tracks are the best kind of tracks to improve upon in my humble opinion. Personally I'm studying Jazz composing and arranging, and I can spend hours voicing only 4 bars of horns for big band ensemble. Just trying out different approaches and such. If you know what style you're going for and if you know how it works to arrange or compose in that style you only need 20 seconds of music to keep improving upon, until you've finally fully understood what it means to compose/arrange in that style. And then you can try out bigger ideas and tracks.

Oh, wow, I really didn't word that well... Sorry. With the synths I meant the electric piano thingies. I'm really bad at electric instruments so I always confuse them... I did think you were using a double bass instead of an electric bass, though. With clashing I didn't mean any dissonant clashing but more a clashing in a harmonic sense. The II-V-I progression obviously works well in jazz, so I understand the underlying thought behind it, but the main melody doesn't really harmonize as well to the progression as the other melodies harmonize to the I-VII-VI-V progression. So it isn't a bad reharmonization, but just not as convincing as the rest of the arrangement. I'd personally try altering the main melody a bit (notewise, not melody wise) to make it fit a little better. It's not as if everyone suddenly won't recognize the source anymore. I hope it makes a bit more sense now.

Hmm, I personally feel like there are a few odd things harmonic wise, in the mix. At 00.47, when the bongo's come in, there's some clashing between the main lead and the II-V-I chord progression. It just doesn't sound very natural, the combination that is. Because later at the epic organ solo it sounds fine. The ending is pretty abrupt harmonic wise, too. And, this might be a personal thing, but I'd personally choose a different instrument than the violin to play the melody at the loungy bridge thingy. It fits the melodic vibe, but considering that you're using a double bass, organ, bongo's and synths I'd expect something more loungier, like a flute or a trumpet. But using a violin is interesting as well, so it isn't really that important. You should lower the volume of every last note of the musical sentences, though. It may be the most important note, but I think you're accentuating it a little too much right now. But, nonetheless, this is really good!!

Okay, so I think I've improved the audioquality quite a bit. It isn't as clear and awesome as pianosound from that final fantasy track, but it's definitely a lot better. This recording does have a few mistakes, though. So I'm gonna spend some time on perfecting the arrangement and playing before submitting anything. But I do wanna throw in this recording to check if the audioquality is good enough now. https://soundcloud.com/jorik-bergman/route-de-art-enciel Thanks for all the feedback!!