Sil

Sounds good to me. You're probably done with the arrangement, but for future reference, try not to make the accompanying harmonies just a wall of block chords. I know this sound is typical of vg music, but if you really want to go for the classical sound, listen to some Ravel or Vaughan Williams and get a feel for the moving string parts that can make up the harmonic backdrop. I think I hear something to this effect at 2:37 in the clarinet and harp, but it's way too quiet. Why not make those horns play syncopated quarters? After the crescendo at 2:18, instead of whole notes in the strings, why not half notes? You'd want to use the same kind of rules in choral part-writing, especially in the bass line to fill in those empty ranges, and changing the rhythm from whole notes to something smaller drives the piece forward. Another effect you could use is to avoid the downbeat and have the harmony come in on beat 2 (along with timpani and anything else) which creates the illusion of counterpoint. Speaking of counterpoint, there isn't much here. I recall Uematsu had some descending figures in the horns that you decided not to use. If you ask me, the best kind of counterpoint for string-based pieces is plucked bass pizzicatos in any sort of slow, dance-like rhythm (this goes hand-in-hand with syncopated horn rhythms as well.) Faure's music is a good example of this, and I'm sure you could really enhance the first 2 minutes of this piece with some light, plucked downbeats an octave below the cellos. Keep at it!

Don't worry about it. I think the reason it doesn't sound too realistic is because it's awfully high for trumpets. You have them on a B, C, and C# when the highest you want to go, especially for being able to play staccato, is G (an octave and a 5th above C.) Have them play in thirds (I think you're already doing that) at least an octave lower. Use note velocities to make the hits on the beat stronger than those off. Good work. What I was suggesting with the trombones is to treat them like a choir. For example, you already have a choral backdrop at 0:43. Trombones, along with pretty much all brass, can do something similar, but fading in on one harmony while fading out on another. At 0:43 they would fade in on an F# minor chord and fade out in the next measure in D major. If it doesn't sound good, don't bother. Composing is all about the trial and error. If you ask me (never a bad decision) what you need is a contrasting B theme. Williams is great at these. Take Across the Stars from AotC for example. The B theme starts around 0:37 into the track and builds up to a return of A, making A more "rewarding" in a sense. The return of B around 2 minutes in goes through even more development and harmonic shifts leading into this march-like variation on A. Using A Link to the Past as a guide, you can see which themes have prominent contrasting B themes. The Light World and Dark World themes especially. Some would even go as far as to say the Death Mountain theme is inspired by Williams. Anyway, the idea of how to structure your piece is simple: ABA. Typically, most music is a variation on this, sometimes even introducing a C theme. The contrasting B theme can vary in a number of ways: harmony, rhythm, instrumentation, even tempo. At 1:30 you might want to change up the theme right away, because while repeating the main motif is okay, even in another key, the rest of it is too dragging to have so many appearances. It really sticks out and would act against you in the judging process. Nice. I still think at 0:43 when the horns and violins are holding that note (it's an A) the trumpets should repeat that F# G# A theme. The effect in the end will sound like F#5 G#5 F#6 G#6 A6 because the A5 will be under the F#6. I know, it sounds complicated, so contact me via AIM if you want to hear it.

This has potential, so here's some things you can do to really bring out the motivic capabilities: 0:45 To really add to the second iteration of the horn theme, make the violins or violas double the horns in unison so that the sound is more full, and have trumpets echo the 3-note motif in the horns an octave higher (it should be obvious what I'm suggesting here.) I think you have violins doing something up high already, but it sounds way too quiet and unnatural. Lower the octave and increase the volume significantly. It sounds like you've added a light choral hum in the background. That's nice, but I think a better sound would be some trombone triads fading in and out, or better yet, a trombone chorale that drives the harmony forward. 1:08 The ending to the horn melody is really dragging, so why not add some of those Williams-ish fanfares in the trumpets, similar to those in the piece this is inspired from. You know, triplet/16th-note staccatos and all that. 1:25 Oh, what a great opportunity to suddenly modulate to B minor instead of staying in F#! Trust me, put this section in B minor (up a fourth from the F#) and this piece's energy will increase 10-fold. Also, get rid of the piano and let trombones have the lead or something. Otherwise, it's going to sound really static and repetitive, not to mention subdued by the soft nature of the piano line. 1:45 By this point things have become too static and more Philip Glass-like than anything, especially given those exposed violin arpeggios and ostinatos. How about adding some winds to play some runs and give the violins an opportunity to play some strong lines and harmony? It's what they're best at. There are a few other issues with the orchestration, such as odd timpani hits here and there, but what you need to concentrate on more is the counterpoint. You have a lot of voices available and a lot of room for some extra melodic material. 2:00 I don't think a soft piano interlude is the direction this piece was heading, but if you must go there, why not change up the key? Another way to bring out this section is to double the piano with strings on every note. Instead of a simple background tremolo, you could do something more Rachmaninov-like. Also, it's a great opportunity for solo winds to chime in once and a while with some motivic echoing of the piano line. Keep at it. I like that you have a model in mind for how you want the piece to sound, so all I can suggest is to listen to even more Williams scores to get ideas for driving the piece forward (hopefully with more changeups in the ostinato.)

Is this the entire score? Nevertheless, what's there sounds pretty amazing and very original.

Despite what everyone thinks of rapidshare, it was the first one that allowed me to upload it smoothly and quickly: http://rapidshare.com/files/49465056/SAM_Timpani.zip This is Project SAM's free timpani they made available on their site 4-5 years ago. It's in giga format (*.gig)

Although the bass line is great in the opening 30 seconds, it now needs to be doubled even more to become stronger. Double basses should be playing an octave below the cellos. Bassoon with cellos, contrabassoon with double basses (if desired), tuba optional. At 0:36, if there is a bassoon there, it's not loud enough. Bass line not loud enough at 0:45 either. Remember, an orchestra is about balance. I know at first it's easy to get caught up in the treble line, which is where most people hear melody, but the bass is so important, just listen to any orchestration. During the fuller/louder sections there isn't enough deep bass to sustain the timpani. At 1:01 the timpani is sounding a little fake. Find the free Timpani SAM was giving away all those years ago, it's great (msg me 4 giga). Also, the timpani is climbing in a melodic way it usually doesn't do. Keep it on the same note (the first one it plays) and continue the ostinato until it is double forte, and double it with your basses down the octave. I know the section is climbing harmonically, but one of the most awesome sounds an orchestra makes is any movement above a static bass. As it gets louder, add trombones or bass trombones to the ostinato to give it that punctuated brassy texture. Get the horns to do some cuivre. Awesome use of pizz bass. At 2:17, again you need a deep bass to sustain the timpani, either with pizz bass or arco. Awesome crescendo at 2:30, needs trombones playing just as loud, if not louder than the trumpets (trumpets should be able to pierce through, with piccolo's help.) Do you have any samples that sound more brassy? Try trombones playing in fifths or any other open chord. Things are okay at 3:00, but one thing I would watch out for is having too regular a rhythm. It's hard to explain, but it seems you chose to do more timpani-based ostinato instead of counterpoint to the top melodic voice. Counterpoint is much better at 3:30. Agan, need that deep bass as things build. At 3:50, try to keep that timpani confined to two notes, it seems like it's all over the place. Not needed if you can get the basses to play that quarter note ostinato in octaves. The ending really needs a better timpani set and louder trombones. Good work overall. Big improvement on your past movements too.

An RPG opera where all the dialogue is sung a la Wagner's Ring Cycle! Huge orchestra, huge chorus, dozens of pro opera singers... Why? Every talking RPG I've seen makes me realize how silly the dialogue in these games is and I refuse to believe it's just bad voice acting in 100% of cases. Whenever I think about it I could imagine the design and interplay of music and action, along with story and artwork, become a staple of the video game era that surpasses film. Heck, turn Wagner's Ring Cycle or any Shakespeare play into an RPG and you'd might even find these games in schools. Remember tomorrow's homework, kids: level grind until Siegfried has enough skill to forge the Nothung and defeat the dragon Fafner. Where do you think FF got the idea of summoning Norse gods anyway?

You're right that there is no official title for someone who works with synthesizers. However, additional composers for synthesized film scores, instead of remaining anonymous, typically get a "synthesizer programmer" credit. The wikipedia article on this seems a bit misinformed considering the vast number of "synthesizer programmer" credits listed on imdb. I prefer "music engineer" myself because the word "synthesizer" to me evokes the idea of 80s pop music and all that.

Awesome. It's as if Gershwin wrote a string quartet (and was an avid Mario fan.)

I don't understand what's being argued here. Of course digital musicians are musicians making music and can express humanism in their own way. There is no question that what they are making is art. If they're composing their own works, I'd say they are even more artistic than any non-composing musician. But are they more skilled in their craft? No. I’ve yet to hear anyone show any kind of virtuosity when it comes to recreating the humanistic qualities of music through a synthesizer. As digital musicians we have all day to muddle through a trial and error approach to music-making. Yes, we can be artistic about it, but we are far from making it a skill that combines our mental and physical agility with our musical sense of rhythm, timing, tone, etc. What we (as digital musicians) do in an hour, a skilled performer can do in seconds, and much better than us, and that’s definitely something that deserves respect. But if his skills are limited solely to performing, that’s when he loses a certain aspect of humanism. Is it any wonder why many music teachers today despise the "trained monkey" approach to musicianship? If you want to sound like a recording, just go and play a recording.

Right now it looks as though there is going to be 5 movements as we've accumulated only so much material to work with from the game that can be translated into our particular brand of choral music. What material might that be? Well, it’s going to be a surprise as each part is released, on ocremix or otherwise. What I can say is that the rest of the organ music is going to be coming up (goddess and doom), but probably not the progressive rock portions from the final Kefka battle. Other tracks from elsewhere in FF6 will be making an appearance instead. As of now the midi for the second movement is clocking in at 6:20 and the third movement at 7 minutes in length. By the end we’ll have a good half-hour of music in tribute to Uematsu’s genius.

I'd be willing to contribute something along the lines of an Italian aria if there's someone willing to lend their vocals to the task. Ave Marin? One can only dream...

Those are some pretty effeminate men singing then. Maybe we should add that castrato section afterall...

I know just what you're talking about. It sounds to me like a sound artifact in the octave B of the choir that is being amplified because both the ostinato and bass are in C. It's a problem in the one sample itself: too much tone, not enough consonant.

What you need is a model. Whether you’re starting out composing, or have been composing for many years, you should focus on finding models in classical or film repertoire to give you ideas on how to structure and texturize your work. Don’t expect to come up with some completely new and revolutionary feat of orchestration on your own. Ever hear "Good composers borrow, great composers steal"? Well, let’s just say that I myself could be going away for a long time. Anyway, what you’re missing at 0:51 and throughout the ostinato is a bass foundation. You could just simply put a pizz bass down there on the root of each chord and it’d make a world of difference. Then you can make it slightly rhythmic, for example, with pizz on beats 1 and 4 of each measure, so you’re essentially doing a 1-5-1-5 march thing, except it’s not 1-5. Start small, then build it up with percussion: timpani, tambourine, snare, all that good stuff. Moments such as those at 2:23 with how the timpani comes in there are really great. But never neglect the pizz bass, it’s like 50% of what they play these days. Everything you have here sounds great so far. Make it longer. Add more winds.

Some good points raised, but a major factor is the title of the piece/song. If you call it something like "Final Fantasy Remix" and it contains a little snippit, even just a vague reference to some tune that is not your own, then it is copyright infringement. Call it something else; it becomes a matter of note similarity. If the note similarity is negotiable, then it should be your own. eg. I arranged a tune from Star Ocean 2 some time ago and the only similarity it had to the original was 9 notes long, or about 4-5 seconds of material I transformed with some fancy classical-style counterpoint, among other things. I changed the style, instrumentation, key, tempo, flow, rhythms, added new melody lines, etc. Ultimately, I feel I’m safe in calling it my own (if I ever had to.)

0:00 Is there any thing you can do to make the harp less prominent? One effect is if you brought down the volume a little, you can double it with a clarinet (like Debussy.) Also, that trombone has got to go, so give that line to a bassoon, and make it less repetitive by making it more bouncy and staccato. See if you can turn it into some counterpoint to the melody, and bring out the cellos more. If all we can hear is melody + ostinato, it's pretty boring and not original enough. 0:51 I like the bass line here in the pizz bass. See if you can make that stronger. The melody by this point should have transferred to violins playing in octaves. What you have the violins doing now should be in the winds. The harmony in the horns needs some dynamic contrast, like crescendoing and decrescendoing. But seriously, get those violins playing the melody in octaves. 1:21 The violins here just sound like noise. If you want a neat effect, keep the melody in the violins, and give the cellos some tremolo playing some kind of counter melody. There's lots of room for some slow, stepwise quarter note movement that isn't just bass line ostinato. It feels like the chord at 1:41 should be the trombones playing a harmony that crescendos to a climax at 1:44 along with a timpani roll. By this point the melody would have transferred to trumpets and horns. At 1:44, violin chords would still sound great here. I hope you have some plans as to how you're going to develop this theme further!

This is some pretty amazing stuff. Besides the composers you already mentioned, who else influences your work? Are you planning to write anything for a large ensemble such as concert band or orchestra?

That piece is just way too close to John Barry's theme (and subsequent hit song) from the movie Born Free. For my tastes, at least. Maybe Uematsu is a Barry fan, because it sounds a lot like him in other ways as well.

It explains what, but not who or why. Who are these people? Why do they do this?

Sounds really good, especially the bass line at the begging (the most overlooked of all lines.) While the use of timpani and low strings in unison is a great effect, there's too much timpani accompaniment in spots that would work perfectly for pizz bass plucks instead (and would give the timpanist a break on the retunings.) Long tones can be handled by cellos and bassoon. At 1:12 it feels like the bass line should be supported more by trombones rather than cellos (cellos can instead start doing what the violins have been doing all along for greater effect.) At 1:40 the timpani has overstayed its welcome and should really be pizzicato bass by this point. 2:06 is a good spot for it to come back. It's best to keep the use of timpani sparse so it can be easily retuned. Again, what the basses are doing at this point (long tones) can easily be accomplished using trombones and bassoons. By 2:30-3:00 the overall sound is becoming a bit too string/timpani-centric after a long portion mainly dominated by strings. You should try cutting out voices for effect and give parts to other sections in a sort of "ensemble" style of writing. The bassline during the march at 3:00 is not as clever as the opening of the piece and is really stagnant. If you ask me, it sounds like the violins/violas are playing what the horns should be playing, the bass should be staccato in the rhythm of the timpani, and the timpani should only be hitting lightly every half-note so its sound isn't so dominating. There's also just a surprising lack of brass except for the trumpets. I'd get rid of the piano, its usage here is a bit too corny. If you want glissandi, use a harp. Melody can be taken care of by everything else. At 4:15 the brass should really be taking over the melody, and the counter-melody could be in the violins and horns instead of oboe. While you do attempt to break up the rhythm at 3:39, you have the same quarter-note pulse going for 2 minutes straight, which is far too long for a piece that is 5. A good way to change that up would be to end with a more direct approach, like an oom-pah pulse in half notes (and that makes it easier to accelerate towards the end.) It’s hard to explain, but I think you can hear how the quarter-note pulse is driving the rhythm and it sounds a bit boring without any change, or syncopation, or even elision.

One day? How many rehearsals is that? I have an arrangement, but it would take at least 4-5 rehearsals if your band plays at the grade 4 level (at the least.)

Sam Horns + Trumpets. Getting Trombones really soon. The quality of brass sampling these days is top-notch. Not perfect, but when compared to the god-awful string section sampling in even the most pro libraries out there, light-years ahead.

If tendency tones are what made chord resolutions stronger, then a diminished vii chord would be stronger than V7. I think V-I is stronger because V7-I puts the emphasis on the 3rd of the I chord, whereas in V-I the resolution of the leading tone to the root is more prominent. Try playing V7-I and what stands out the most is that 3rd (in C major the F moving to the E stands out.) The strongest cadence is the one with the leading tone B->C playing a more important role. But even more important is what precedes the V chord, and in that case I would say your V6/4 V I progression is the strongest of all.

I look forward to any orchestral arrangement posted on ocremix because it’s always interesting to hear the different approaches to orchestration generated by a love of game music. And since I’m familiar with the source tunes, it’s very easy to see how the material was interpreted. The use of celesta in the first minute reminds me of Silvestri’s Back to the Future score; very nice and atmospheric. The harmonies with the bassoons at around 0:47 are also very nice, and especially Herrmann-esque. I think the oboe becomes a little too dominant during this moment, though. The use of winds overall is a plus in my book. The cello solo and subsequent sustained dissonance would benefit from a sample upgrade. When you start doing more ambient effects with the orchestra (as opposed to melodic/harmonic) with all those solo bits, the sound really becomes dependent on the instrument and not the writing. The switch from a dissonant Ab harmony to Ab major at around 1:40 sounds confusing for two reasons. For one, the dissonance is not resolved in a pleasing way, though it's a good idea. Also, once the Ab major theme starts, there doesn’t seem to be a heavy enough bass to carry the harmony. I’m not too sure about the harmonic progression beginning at 2:11 to reach 2:20. (The exact times keep switching on me, so I can best describe this as the part leading up to the F in the trumpets with the cymbal crash.) However, the part that follows is great because it has a strong harmony supported in the trombones. The march is really well orchestrated. You make use of different combinations of instruments, every line is strong, and I get a real Star Wars vibe from it, especially in your use of counterpoint (excellent use of low strings). Speaking of which, I think the whole counter-theme section at around 3:14 is the highlight of the piece. The key change near 3:48 is also great, and I’m sure you got that idea from the Imperial March. The Stravinsky-like crescendo at around 4:00 is again one of those things that sound better coming from real instruments. The following climax too suffers from problems with the ranges the instruments are sounding in (too much treble.) I think the trumpets could be doubled with the trombones an octave lower just to get more of that brassy sound in the mid-range. I think you should try to get this performed. It would work really well in that capacity.