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Except once Dell throws out some of their insane deals/coupons, you can find deals that would cost thousands less than what you can get from Apple. There is no question for a deal seeker which is cheaper.

MSRP does not include Tax/Title/License/Doc Fee or any coupons.

Plus that particular model is not on sale at the present time.

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MSRP does not include Tax/Title/License/Doc Fee or any coupons.

Plus that particular model is not on sale at the present time.

Dell has sales fairly frequently. Apple very rarely has sales. For example, this past holiday, Dell had some of their most incredible deals ever, and for under $1000, you could easily get a laptop that functioned on par with the Macbook Pros, excepting maybe the video card. They also had some great bargain desktop deals as well, with 19" LCD monitor. If you want flexibility and better prices, Apple has never been the company to buy them from (excepting maybe ~1 1/2 years ago for that brief period when the Macbook was first introduced, combined with their free iPod Nano & printer deals) and to argue otherwise really is a demonstration of ignorance.

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For the desktops: (Dell Precision T7400, and Mac Pro)

Full client OS

2xIntel Quad Core Xeon at 3.16GHz

2GB RAM

DVD burner

1TB SATA drive

nVidia QuadroFX 5600

Apple: $7649

Dell: $8429

Anyone who's paid that much for a home computer, please raise your hand. I wish to spend the next few months making fun of you :lol:

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It's funny to see how non-knowledgeable all the people who say they have "used a mac and it's inferior" are!

If you are too stupid to understand how to use a mac wow just keep your PC for god's sake!

Also a same spec Mac and PC will get the same performance on Windows AND the Mac will get better performance on OSX. So the price is such a old-school excuse to bash Macs. It's like still saying Nintendo is kiddie....

I'm happy that PCs are still #1, that way, it still gets all the stupid people while I can chat with the wise ones...

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It's funny to see how non-knowledgeable all the people who say they have "used a mac and it's inferior" are!

It's funny to see the slew of retarded excuses the Mac fanboys dredge up. Why not use the good excuses, like the fact that the things all look like sex in a plastic or aluminum box?

So the price is such a old-school excuse to bash Macs.

Actually, the price is a good excuse. If I'm supposed to use a certain software package (because the OS is the candy wrapping) the cheapest thing that gets the job done wins. Unless of course you spend all day changing system preferences, moving files and resizing windows.

I'm happy that PCs are still #1, that way, it still gets all the stupid people while I can chat with the wise ones...

Your MSN for Mac and Adium have little icons next to people's names that say which computer they use?

Harbl. :D

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Wise ones?

Why would I pay more to have a pretentious product that does what a cheaper product does?

Why bother about compatibility with a maximum level of software (and not just games)?

Most mac people buy macs because they like feeling superior about it.

1: It's a freaking computer. My 30$ sledgehammer can still make it unusable whatever company made it.

2: It's an operating system, not a religion.

3: If you like it, good, stop bugging the hell out of me about it.

I have tried shopping for both Macs and PCs, and I always end up buying a PC because I know what parts I want, I can customize it, and it always comes off cheaper than the Mac with similar specs.

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So therefore any attempt to use a slightly better security model is pointless because market share will immediately cause "security" to evaporate?

Believe it or not, the answer to that question, is "Yes". Case in point. Remember when IE had about 95% of the market share of browsers? Then a open source project called "Firefox" came into existence. People loved it. Tabs, Add ons and most of all, security. Firefox 1.0 had much much better security than our friend IE. Fast forward a bit. Firefox now has closer to 20% of the market share and is at version 2.0, but, there are more security risks now for the browser than there were a couple of years ago. Does this mean that the people developing the product made the security worse? No, black hats saw the increased market share as a chance to attack more people and therefore, targeted it. Right now, arguably, Opera has damn good security compared to either, the second Opera takes off like Firefox did, you can expect that brick wall of security to crumble like it just got hit by a nuke.

Running as an unprivileged user for basic things _is_ a slightly better option than running as an administrator to do the same basic things. The problem is that 90% of end users on Windows are running as an Administrator.

Agreed.

Not that it particularly matters if you just call the UNIX guys, but ~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/AppName.crash.log for application crash logs and /Library/Logs/panic.log for kernel panic logs.

Very nice :). Thanks for the info.

It's funny to see how non-knowledgeable all the people who say they have "used a mac and it's inferior" are!

If you are too stupid to understand how to use a mac wow just keep your PC for god's sake!

Also a same spec Mac and PC will get the same performance on Windows AND the Mac will get better performance on OSX. So the price is such a old-school excuse to bash Macs. It's like still saying Nintendo is kiddie....

I'm happy that PCs are still #1, that way, it still gets all the stupid people while I can chat with the wise ones...

What's funnier is seeing Mac fanboys defending Mac OS X with arguments such as, "Windows users are inferior. My fellow Mac users are wise!"

Judging by your comment, I feel confidant that I can share a little secret with you: I know more about OS X than you.

This may come as a shock to you but if you will take a few deep ones, you may began to realize that you bought a Mac because Steve has a genius marketing team with genius strategies. You bought a Mac not because you were so wise that you can see through PC's clever ruse, but because you saw a commercial, and you believed everything you heard on TV and everything your read at Mac.com. Congratulations.

Next thing I'm going to hear is that Expose' and the Dock were originally Mac ideas...

While I'm here complaining about Macs, let me tell you another fun fact about Mac users that drive me nuts:

Mac users love to tell PC users that "Windows stole all of Mac's ideas and stuff /qq". Wake up, smell the world of PCs. There is a cute set of projects. These projects come in an infinite variety of flavors and together we call these projects, "Linux". You want to know where all of Macs pretty graphical "ideas" come from? Look to Linux three years or so before Mac implemented them. Oh, Time Capsule, you say? Windows Server 2003 Shadow Copy.

Mac isn't ahead of it's time with it's neat features. It's playing catchup.

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I have a Macbook Pro. They are overpriced, so that's why I waited on mine. I bought it with a 200 dollar student discount, free Ipod and free printer. All in all, it was almost as much as I would have paid for any other PC of its caliber.

Macs suit me just fine. single button is fine cause you double click with two fingers. Two finger scrolling is a pleasure. For me it works, and though I had just as many problem as I had with my PC, I'm not going to crucify Apple for making a product that tends to crash(all computers do after all.)

But I can still see the allure of PC's. Its a preference, what color do you like Orange or Red?

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So I'm guessing this thread is no longer about personal experiences (of varying levels) and preferences with Mac and PC OSs, and is now about "You're stupid!"/"Nuh uh, you are!"..

Pretty much. I'm happy with what I have, and I hope that all the PC people out there are happy with what they have.

I just prefer Macs, and the ones that I have are very good machines. It's good to have choice in the marketplace.

Bottom line is this: Get what suits you, and is what you want.

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If you are forced to Reinstall Windows because of crashes, then it probably is an issue with the end user. Windows is not nearly as mindless as Mac OS X is. You can break Windows pretty easily if you don't know what you are doing.

One instance of a force-reinstall: My dad made my PC - not the best, but certainly not bottom rung, and I only used it for some old games so that I wasn't on his. At the time it wasn't attached to the internet. I turned my PC on, then realized one of my favorite shows was on. Before I left, I saw that it was fully loaded and ready for me to use it (after five minutes of waiting as usual). The TV I used was on the other side of my bedroom, opposite my PC. At the first commercial break I turned around, wanting to load the game I was going to use after, but on my screen was the BSoD. I had only turned it on, not used it at all otherwise, and through the log in safe mode no one else had used it but me for almost a month (finals time - oh how I hate them). Even my dad, who has been a computer engineer for almost 30 years now was baffled. Nothing in the hardware was wrong. Nothing had been added or removed that was/wasn't necessary. Tell me that's user error, Kautzman.

And even when a Mac says "OS has encountered a problem" it gives the option to send the info to Apple, just like a PC. The only difference? Apple gets back with you to let you know what they're doing to fix it. Good luck getting that from Windows.

Sure, I like PCs to a point. I like Macs better. So what? The only reason we keep bugging you guys is because you keep bugging us about yours. Specs make the performance. My 1.83 GHz MacBook is running better than the 2.3 GHz monster that my dad has upstairs, which needs to be high-performance so that he can take work home. He hates Macs too, but knows that they do what they need to a lot better than a PC does.

Add that to the fact that OSX loads what it needs to first when it is booted, then starts to load all the programs you have set to load at the start. Windows tries to load it all at once, forcing you to wait five to ten minutes half the time, and even with upgraded parts it still takes longer than it needs to.

I tried to do another comparing option with the Macs vs Dell or HP, but only Apple gave me a site where I could add what I want to whatever I want, see its price in real time, and see its new specs, without having to actually order one. Dell's site gave a bunch of jabber and possibilities (the only one that came close to the base Mac Pro settings was the XPS 720 H2C Desktop at twice the price (and not as much available room or ability to max out as the Pro). HP had one though, but nowhere near the availability on their best home model as the Mac Pro.

And you can customize the laptops and desktops on the Apple website. Take a look. http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore Click on the one you want to check out, then click customize.

Enjoy.

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Pretty much. I'm happy with what I have, and I hope that all the PC people out there are happy with what they have.

I just prefer Macs, and the ones that I have are very good machines. It's good to have choice in the marketplace.

Bottom line is this: Get what suits you, and is what you want.

And I'm probably not helping. I agree. Get what you want, be happy with it. I'll stop ranting now.... :)

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The TV I used was on the other side of my bedroom, opposite my PC. At the first commercial break I turned around, wanting to load the game I was going to use after, but on my screen was the BSoD. I had only turned it on, not used it at all otherwise, and through the log in safe mode no one else had used it but me for almost a month (finals time - oh how I hate them). Even my dad, who has been a computer engineer for almost 30 years now was baffled. Nothing in the hardware was wrong. Nothing had been added or removed that was/wasn't necessary. Tell me that's user error, Kautzman.

You would be quite amazed at what can and will conflict on a PC. By user error, I don't mean that "User X is an idiot and decided he didn't need a Registry." I mean that unknowingly, you have configured, or edited a setting that will cause a crash. I have seen some of the most bizzare crashes in my life on Windows. For example, there was a time when we had a customers computer and they couldn't access Microsoft's online update. Everytime they tried to access it, the machine would hang for some 5 seconds and restart. We sat there puzzled because we tried everything that could possibly be associated with it and after a few hours of work, found out that the video drivers conflict with it...somehow...

Weird and unexplainable things happen and honestly, more often than not, you really can't point a finger at an individual, but at some of the weirdest conflicts you will ever see.

I'm just saying, with a moderate amount of know-how, these things can be diagnosed and fixed much easier on a PC than on a Mac.

Like I said, Macs have this habit of fixing little issue by itself and I love them to death for it. A few clicks and simple things like missing printer drivers are repaired. But if boot to a question mark on the screen, I'd rather not deal with the problem as a question mark tells me very little about what has actually happened.

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...why would you post such an inflammatory article? :???:

I thought it was interesting that people would do a study on this, When there are more important things going on in the world. Didn't post it to start arguments, just want to share that's all. sorry :|

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You would be quite amazed at what can and will conflict on a PC. By user error, I don't mean that "User X is an idiot and decided he didn't need a Registry." I mean that unknowingly, you have configured, or edited a setting that will cause a crash. I have seen some of the most bizzare crashes in my life on Windows. For example, there was a time when we had a customers computer and they couldn't access Microsoft's online update. Everytime they tried to access it, the machine would hang for some 5 seconds and restart. We sat there puzzled because we tried everything that could possibly be associated with it and after a few hours of work, found out that the video drivers conflict with it...somehow...

Weird and unexplainable things happen and honestly, more often than not, you really can't point a finger at an individual, but at some of the weirdest conflicts you will ever see.

I'm just saying, with a moderate amount of know-how, these things can be diagnosed and fixed much easier on a PC than on a Mac.

Like I said, Macs have this habit of fixing little issue by itself and I love them to death for it. A few clicks and simple things like missing printer drivers are repaired. But if boot to a question mark on the screen, I'd rather not deal with the problem as a question mark tells me very little about what has actually happened.

Ah... now I understand what you meant. Sorry I assumed.... :) No hard feelings? And you do have a point. I will agree that it's easier to find out things about an error on a PC. Gotta admit, though, I'd rather let it fix itself and let me get back to work.

Handy, that.

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So I'm guessing this thread is no longer about personal experiences (of varying levels) and preferences with Mac and PC OSs, and is now about "You're stupid!"/"Nuh uh, you are!".

Silent Mike- It's the computer version of the console wars argument. Happens every time.

Take this thread. Yes, all of it. Copy all of the text in it. Now, repost it at least once per week. Deja-vu? Welcome to the world of forums about graphic design. :)

I don't care whether you use the newest mac, a pc monster build, or a machine made out of wood that you have to hand-crank. If it does whatever it is you need it to do, however you want it done, then you have a successful computer/operating system.

Mac/PC/Linux threads are so tiring.

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Compare carrots to carrots. If you are going to compare a Mac to a PC, one should compare to a pre-assembled PC, as that is what the Macintosh targets.

Otherwise you are saddling the Mac with the cost of assembly (which you forgo when you order a set of components) and the cost to offer some kind of user support (which you forgo in part when you buy components). This is not even getting into profits that are made on the assembled hardware.

The correct analogy is that ANY pre-assembled computer is going to underperform compared to the components that can be purchased for the same amount of money.

But this is comparing carrots to celery.

No it is not. You pay the same money and you get the different calibur of products. There are PLENTY (IE: hundreds) of preassembled and delivered PC systems that cost around $1700 and you can actually get a quadcore AMD computer replete with monitor, keyboard/mouse, power source and printer.

And $1700 is the 'higher' calibur of the new MacBook Air.

I don't want to hear how the assembly costs actually factors into it. Because the same applies to PCs.

Like I said before, the thing you get out of Apple is the dependability and stability, while you get the raw power and sheer modifiability with PC systems. Obviously it depends on the user's preference, but I tend to stick to the highest calibur and I'm not sold on the hype that Apple is exactly on the cutting edge. It is a consistent platform, not definitely not the 'cutting edge' it's advertised as. And no, I'm not comparing the relatively inferior Vista to the Mac OS's. Just the hardware package of it all.

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The Mac Air is a cool machine to look at, but it only gives me 1 USB port and 13-inch screen. But the biggest dealbreaker for me is the battery. They tucked it in like with the iPod, meaning I have to send it off to service technician if it needs to be replaced. I don't know why Apple keeps doing this.

15" MacBook Pro is the better bang for the buck.

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