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Schwaltzvald

MGS... should I..?

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Imagine playing Super Mario Bros and then playing Super Mario Bros in Super Mario Allstars. It's just not the same experience with the slight overhaul.

That actually sounds like a reason you'd *want* to play Twin Snakes. Super Mario All-Stars was awesome.

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Explain further. I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the improvements made were technical, and that the story was only enhanced, not diminished. In preparation for MGS4, I want to play through the entire series thus far (including the GBC and PSP games) and, since MGS is from the realm of bad (by today's standards) 3D, I figured I'd play the updated version (which I haven't played yet). So tell me why I shouldn't.

Some dialogue was changed in terms of writing AND delivery. Original dialogue was much better but they DID explain the whole identical genes yet different appearances thing between Solid and Liquid a bit better in Twin Snakes.

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That actually sounds like a reason you'd *want* to play Twin Snakes. Super Mario All-Stars was awesome.

I don't disagree. Both are great for different reasons. But the original just has that different flair. As if it was meant to be played that way.

Pezman, I enjoyed Twin Snakes too so I'm not saying you shouldn't play it. But the definitive experience is with the original. The warts and all. Maybe it's only me, but I don't have such a big problem with the heavy pixels of the Playstation 1 era. Technically, it really does look bad but I think the gameplay stands on its own.

As for the different physical appearance issue with Liquid/Solid, I think that could'be been construed from the way Liquid kept saying he was of inferior gene when just about everyone else in the game said otherwise. Maybe that was a bit too cryptic for many gamers.

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Explain further. I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the improvements made were technical, and that the story was only enhanced, not diminished. In preparation for MGS4, I want to play through the entire series thus far (including the GBC and PSP games) and, since MGS is from the realm of bad (by today's standards) 3D, I figured I'd play the updated version (which I haven't played yet). So tell me why I shouldn't.

Let me tell you something. Twin Snakes is good. It has a graphics overhaul. It looks shiney.

The orignal MGS has music and mood and an attitude that feels lost in newer version. The voice acting isn't as great (not bad, but not as good as the original). They rechoreographed some of the cutscenes (making them a little over the top imo... too many damned flips through the air that are just silly), added in A LITTLE extra information, and THEY CHANGED A LOT OF THE MUSIC (which I believe is one of the biggest problems). For instance, some memorable songs are all removed and they've thrown in some wild electronica stuff, which is cool, but it doesn't feel the same as the stellar, classic music from the original. Sure you get MGS2 moves in TwinSnakes, but it just doesn't feel as magical or as captivating as the PS1 version felt. Plus since the MGS2 controls were never intended for the maps of MGS2, you can take out entire squads of guards with the first person view, which you were unable to do in the original. And I don't want to spoil anything for you, but a few very dramatic parts in the PS1 version just feel watered down in general...

***SEMI-SPOILER***

there's one scene in the snow where Snake has to finish off a fallen enemy, and it just doesn't have the dramatic effect that the original had... the original was so good and so moving. I'm trying to keep it vague for those of you that haven't played the game... although citing something as a spoiler that is almost ten years old does seem a little silly to me.

***END SPOILERS*

It's just not as emotionally moving.

The entire experience on the Gamecube just feels watered down. Play the PS1 version, the way MGS was intended from the beginning, because it's a phenomenal game.

Play the PS1 version. It is superior in it's lasting effect. Just do it. Go. Stop Reading. Go play MGS on the PS1. G'WAN!

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Thanks guys for clarifying the differences between Twin Snakes and the original release. Honestly, hearing about the differences make me wanna get this MGS collection just to experience these differences for myself.

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If you think Twin Snakes is too easy, jack up the difficulty.

I've played both versions of MGS, and I find that Twin Snakes' improvements in play mechanics, control, graphics and environmental interactivity give it a rather substantial edge over the original as far as the overall presentation of the game. I don't have a problem with the accents being missing from Twin Snakes; Naomi and Mei Ling have both lived in America for many years and are likely to speak as such. And I also don't have a problem with the Matrix-y cutscenes, given that 1) they are awesome and 2) even in the original game, Gray Fox could hold up MG-REX; it makes sense that any character capable of hurting him in hand-to-hand combat would be superhuman, and Snake is explicitly identified in the storyline as

the result of a genetic supersoldier project

. A normal human punching a character like Fox (through a powered exoskeleton, no less) would be more likely to break their hand than to inflict damage. All of this isn't to say that the original isn't a good game, but its play control is less smooth and more awkward than Twin Snakes, and at this point, the original's graphics are hard to look at without injuring one's eyes.

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If you want a balance between the shinier graphics of Twin Snakes and the grittiness of the original MGS, go for the Windows version. All the textures and graphics are in high resolution, but other than that, nothing was changed to my knowledge. Same atmosphere, same controls, same dialogue (way better than Twin Snakes), same awesome music.

Unrelated -- Naomi Hunter (the English girl who betrays Solid) is freakin hot.

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I've played both versions of MGS, and I find that Twin Snakes' improvements in play mechanics, control, graphics and environmental interactivity give it a rather substantial edge over the original as far as the overall presentation of the game.

The missing music affects the presentation a lot as was the superior voice acting and the minimal play mechanics of the original. Like others have said, MGS2 moves in MGS1 = you can literally cheat your way through the entire game with FPS mode. Also, some scenes totally missed the gravitas evident in the original. If you're comparing the cinematic impact of the two, I don't think it's any contest really. MGS1 did everything right, Twin Snakes perverted a lot of what made it great originally, though it still ends up being a great game because it milked off the original.

And I also don't have a problem with the Matrix-y cutscenes, given that 1) they are awesome and 2) even in the original game, Gray Fox could hold up MG-REX; it makes sense that any character capable of hurting him in hand-to-hand combat would be superhuman, and Snake is explicitly identified in the storyline as

the result of a genetic supersoldier project

.

Gray Fox holding up the Rex was otherwise pretty straightforward and didn't involve flipping around in the air needlessly. They're two totally different things in the way they're presented.

Also, Solid was known to be a genetic supersoldier though not said so explicitly. It was implied under the more subversive writing of the original game.

I don't have a problem with the accents being missing from Twin Snakes; Naomi and Mei Ling have both lived in America for many years and are likely to speak as such.

The problem isn't just with the accents. The voicework is just all around a bit worse for the wear. The thing was that the accents were just done so well done, taking it out just doesn't do the original game justice.

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Alright well it finally arrived this afternoon and I soon discovered... I'm not gonna be able to play MGS on my PS2 unless I had a PS1 mem card... yay...

While I still have a mem card it's real iffy in that at rare times it has suddenly lost all memory of anything I've saved on it.

SO... I had little choice but to play MGS on my pc via emulator with disc in drive.

As for the game, the the simple VR training missions surprised me. It's well thought out. No doubt vets snub at my statement but yeah I was impressed with the short VR training missions at the beginning alone.

Later on I'll get to have more time playing MGS. :)!!

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Seriously. I got the Game Boy Color game, and went through every single VR mission before I even touched the main game. So good.

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As for the game, the the simple VR training missions surprised me. It's well thought out. No doubt vets snub at my statement but yeah I was impressed with the short VR training missions at the beginning alone.

Later on I'll get to have more time playing MGS. :)!!

Sucks about the memory card, but there's no shame in loving the VR Missions. Keep in mind they were so good that they released an entire game full of about 300 of them, which were also so good that I completed all but 1 of them (in my defense, it was the single hardest in the game. I knew how to do it, but that was only part of the battle and I just got too frustrated to finish). Playing through those would make someone a god at the original MGS. Hopefully you're playing with some sort of controller connected to your computer though. I shudder to think how the game would play trying to use a keyboard.

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Seriously. I got the Game Boy Color game, and went through every single VR mission before I even touched the main game. So good.

I heard a lot of good things about the Gameboy Color Metal Gear Solid. Apparently it's even above the PSP ones. Also, every Metal Gear game should have the VR modes. It's like a precursor to the strange puzzle games like Portal.

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As I've said before, MGS is pretty much my favorite game of all time (if you couldn't tell from my avatar and sig). In fact, I currently have in my possession:

Metal Gear Solid

Metal Gear Solid 2

Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (not the limited edition, unfortunately)

Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops

Metal Gear Acid

Metal Gear Acid 2

Metal Gear Digital Graphic Novel

(Take that, blueblazer :smile:)

Though I have played the GBC Metal Gear, I was never really a fan of the 2D versions. IMO, Portable Ops (the PSP one) was better, even if it wasn't as true to the series in terms of gameplay and presentation (though I love the art style used for the cutscenes). I can forgive that though, since it was really tailored for a portable system, and is only meant to be played in short segments.

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I wasn't a big fan of the 2D Metal Gears either until I kept playing and it grew on me. Then I realized that 90% of all Metal Gear Solid gameplay derived from Metal Gear 2. MG2 is still my favorite Metal Gear game of all time. Maybe that could change once I buy the GBC version.

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I've only played Metal Gear.

Not sure what all this "Solid" crap is about, but I might buy the Essentials at some point to see. Not a big fan of 3D. I mostly just want Metal Gear 2 (MSX) but apparently this is considered some kind of cheap "bonus" material now, rather than actual content, and was excluded from the Essentials set.

Pretty lame. Anyway, it comes back to Konami in the end. They can be assured I won't buy MGS4 as long as I can't get my hands on Metal Gear 2.

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I've only played Metal Gear.

Not sure what all this "Solid" crap is about, but I might buy the Essentials at some point to see. Not a big fan of 3D. I mostly just want Metal Gear 2 (MSX) but apparently this is considered some kind of cheap "bonus" material now, rather than actual content, and was excluded from the Essentials set.

Pretty lame. Anyway, it comes back to Konami in the end. They can be assured I won't buy MGS4 as long as I can't get my hands on Metal Gear 2.

If you want MG2 that badly, you could always track down a copy of MGS3: Subsistence. You'd probably be able to get your hands on it for cheap by now, and you'd have the bonus of being able to play what is to this date my favourite game in the series. Honestly, whether you're into 3D or not, by not at least trying the MGS series I think you're missing out. Whenever I look at all the shovelware, rehashes, yearly sports games, wondering where all the innovation and originality in game design is, I can look at the MGS series and remember that Kojima has hoarded most of it for himself, so there's not much left for everyone else (except maybe for Fumitu Ueda). Seriously, games like MGS are the reason I play games.

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If you want MG2 that badly, you could always track down a copy of MGS3: Subsistence.

I could be wrong, but was under the impression that since Subsistence was included in this collection, that MG/MG2 would be included in the package.

Also, since I just recently bought Subsistence since I didn't hear about this collection till after, I can tell you it goes for $14 at EB/Gamestop.

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I could be wrong, but was under the impression that since Subsistence was included in this collection, that MG/MG2 would be included in the package.

Also, since I just recently bought Subsistence since I didn't hear about this collection till after, I can tell you it goes for $14 at EB/Gamestop.

Yeah, I figured it would include MG/MG2 because that is technically part of Subsistence.

Nice. I'll check a couple Gamestops for it after work. Ebay is a bit pricey when all I really want is the Persistence disc.

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I could be wrong, but was under the impression that since Subsistence was included in this collection, that MG/MG2 would be included in the package.

Also, since I just recently bought Subsistence since I didn't hear about this collection till after, I can tell you it goes for $14 at EB/Gamestop.

I'm not sure if it comes with the bonus disc that had MG and MG2 though, and seem to be having trouble finding any site that can give me a straight answer on that fact either. I suppose it is likely it'd be in there though. Anyone who owns it (or is better informed than me) want to clarify. I never really kept up to date on what was in this collection since I already own all three (including owning Snake Eater and Subsistence).

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EC doesn't come with the second disk for MGS3:S

Having said that, I never got to play MGS3:S with the new camera and my god it makes the game a thousand times better

I also never could get a copy of MGS2:S with the Skateboarding and Snake missions and I couldn't find my copy of MGS1 so this pack is easily the best thing ever

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I also never could get a copy of MGS2:S with the Skateboarding and Snake missions and I couldn't find my copy of MGS1 so this pack is easily the best thing ever

I thought that the Skateboarding was only in the PS2 version, and the Snake Tales were in all of them...looks like I was wrong. Anyway, I've played the Skateboarding, and you aren't missing much.

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EC doesn't come with the second disk for MGS3:S

Oh, ok...didn't realize it was on a 2nd disc. In fact, I didn't even realize there was a 2nd disc since I didn't even open MGS3 yet :P.

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