OCR TF2: New Server forthcoming - new server IPs and other stuff

[Powerlord]

I have a problem with ZUZ. Earlier today, three of them were using an Uber-Ubersaw chain to camp the enemy's spawn doors near the end of pl_badwater and at certain points during cp_well.

Normally, I'd deal with this, but since they are members of the guild Bahamut is in, I thought it'd be a good idea to mention it here.

I do wish I'd screenshotted it, though.

The players in question were [ZUZ]SeldonAtreides*Recruiting, [ZUZ]Vahn_Paktu, and [ZUZ]pavlvs magnvs.

P.S. Even if spawncamping weren't involved, it absolutely killed the server population: It dropped from 20 to 8 on cp_well during what is normally peak playing time.

[Zephyr]

I'm a witness, they received multiple warnings and they kept doing it. With three perpetually ubered medics running around the game got a lot less fun. It's an effective strategy, but so is sticky spawn camping. I don't think we should allow it in the future, at least not for 2 maps straight.

[Powerlord]

Atmuh was nice enough to upload a screencap of one of the round scoreboards during a round they were spawncamping. I would post my level scoreboard image, but since I tabbed out to post my previous message during the round end, TF2 apparently just saved a blank image instead of the scoreboard (I have the option to autmatically save scoreboard images on level end turned on).

He also had this to say:

the point is not that they simply uberchained, its that they were really gay about it and continued to do it even though they had done a pretty good job already of proving that they could roll a team by doing it. they always play in fairly dumb manners that has more than one people from ocr that i know of playing LESS ON A SERVER FOR THE OCR COMMUNITY. yesterday on turbine zircon and me had to deal with plenty of gay stuff as well, and we couldnt do anything about it.

[zircon]

Yeah, it's really getting out of hand. These guys need to listen to admin requests or be banned.

[SirChadlyOC]

Yeah, it's really getting out of hand. These guys need to listen to admin requests or be banned.

Seconded. .

[Vahn_Paktu]

First off, Bahamut being in ZUZ has nothing to do with it. We aren't asking for favorites here.

Now with that out of the way, take a look at that screen shot. Notice the pyro, what weapon is he holding? That would be the backburner. Bad choice right there.

The easiest counter to a medic chain would be one air blast pyro on the team. One single pyro stops a medic chain full force. Not once, in the entire time we chained, did any pyro airblast us. Even though, there was more then one pyro coming after us.

Another way, would be to have your own uber to prevent the charging. Harder but still pretty doable.

tl;dr Why ban people for the easiest strategy to counter?

[Rambo]

First off, Bahamut being in ZUZ has nothing to do with it. We aren't asking for favorites here.

Now with that out of the way, take a look at that screen shot. Notice the pyro, what weapon is he holding? That would be the backburner. Bad choice right there.

The easiest counter to a medic chain would be one air blast pyro on the team. One single pyro stops a medic chain full force. Not once, in the entire time we chained, did any pyro airblast us. Even though, there was more then one pyro coming after us.

Another way, would be to have your own uber to prevent the charging. Harder but still pretty doable.

tl;dr Why ban people for the easiest strategy to counter?

There are easier strategies to counter. Like a team composed entirely of spies. I have discredited your post.

[zircon]

Vahn, the issue is that most people that play on this server are very casual gamers. Even moreso, most of us are simply not that good. That's sort of the fun of the game (and the server) for almost everybody here... we're not pros, if we were, we would all be in clans or whatever doing scrims every night. The problem is that while there are a LOT of people that aren't very good, the small percentage (including you) that is outstanding tends to play more than everybody else by a considerable margin... which makes it a lot less fun for everybody except, well, that small percentage.

[Bill Lumbergh]

First off, Bahamut being in ZUZ has nothing to do with it. We aren't asking for favorites here.

Now with that out of the way, take a look at that screen shot. Notice the pyro, what weapon is he holding? That would be the backburner. Bad choice right there.

The easiest counter to a medic chain would be one air blast pyro on the team. One single pyro stops a medic chain full force. Not once, in the entire time we chained, did any pyro airblast us. Even though, there was more then one pyro coming after us.

Another way, would be to have your own uber to prevent the charging. Harder but still pretty doable.

tl;dr Why ban people for the easiest strategy to counter?

ok fine this is atmuh using my brothers account and if you mods wanna go ahead and ban this thing right afterwards thats fine i guess its not like ill use it more or anything though

now then

the point is not that they simply uberchained, its that they were really gay about it and continued to do it even though they had done a pretty good job already of proving that they could roll a team by doing it. they always play in fairly dumb manners that has more than one people from ocr that i know of playing LESS ON A SERVER FOR THE OCR COMMUNITY. yesterday on turbine zircon and me had to deal with plenty of gay stuff as well, and we couldnt do anything about it.

the point is you guys are really good at being complete fags and continuing to do so until the cows come home

take a lesson from me, when dudes with authority tell you do to do something, you do it or you get banned

i tend to disagree with zircons "youre better than us and you killing us a lot makes us mad"

i have not problem with that

its when you become a complete and utter ballsack about it

[zircon]

I didn't mean to say that we're mad because we get killed by them, but if they're playing CONSTANTLY, using the same tactics that the same groups of people are unable to counter... then that makes the game not fun. Like you said, it's one thing to get rolled, it's another to get rolled 2, 3, 5, 8 times in a row.

[Dhsu]

I dunno, I tend to just take it as motivation to suck less.

For example, their infamous dual-engie Turbine setup is pretty much impossible to break if you let them get it up, so after getting rolled twice with that strategy, I switched to Heavy, went straight for the battlements, and mowed down half their team.

[Bleck]

IF YOU SEE SOMEBODY SPAWN-CAMPING IN ANY WAY AND YOU HAVE THE MEANS TO KICK AND/OR BAN THEM, DO IT.

I'm getting pretty sick of this 'oh well I dunno cuz so and so is clan whatever' or 'der i tink legmate stortegy' shit.

[Meeting_Gman]

I wouldn't want to see ZUZ banned or anything. Every so often they add a bit of fun and liven up the game with their antics. I think the OCR server would be a bit empty without them. That being said though, they should stop when people get upset about it, at least, it's the sportsman-like thing to do. I wouldn't want anyone else to leave because of their behavior.

The ZUZ are pretty skilled at what they do and in the end it helps everyone else get better.

Well my post was worthless, but I wouldn't want to see anyone go, so hopefully a civil solution can be agreed upon.

[Bill Lumbergh]

I wouldn't want to see ZUZ banned or anything. Every so often they add a bit of fun and liven up the game with their antics. I think the OCR server would be a bit empty without them. That being said though, they should stop when people get upset about it, at least, it's the sportsman-like thing to do. I wouldn't want anyone else to leave because of their behavior.

The ZUZ are pretty skilled at what they do and in the end it helps everyone else get better.

Well my post was worthless, but I wouldn't want to see anyone go, so hopefully a civil solution can be agreed upon.

ok i am going to have a little bit of fun with this one and then i promise i wont post again

how on earth do you find them fun in any way

outside of wish they have absolutely zero personality and wont so much as say a single word to you unless it is pertinent to SUPREME VICTORY

i one played with just me and 3 of them on 2fort with alltalk on and i tried to talk to them and whatnot and the only thing that the dude on my team said was "my tele goes here" so i dont see how you find them fun in any way

the server would be a bit empty without them?

i can name at least 3 people right off the bat that leave as soon as they start to show up, and im sure the list is longer than that

and dhsu i tend to agree with you except most people will just leave

[Zephyr]

Good games everyone, had a good time. Reset is really good.

[Rambo]

Like you said, it's one thing to get rolled, it's another to get rolled 2, 3, 5, 8 times in a row.

Yes, it's nice when people are considerate enough to even up the teams to keep everyone fairly equal. It's not terribly fun nor impressive when one side is stacked. For anyone. Unless those people are assholes.

[Bahamut]

ok i am going to have a little bit of fun with this one and then i promise i wont post again

how on earth do you find them fun in any way

outside of wish they have absolutely zero personality and wont so much as say a single word to you unless it is pertinent to SUPREME VICTORY

i one played with just me and 3 of them on 2fort with alltalk on and i tried to talk to them and whatnot and the only thing that the dude on my team said was "my tele goes here" so i dont see how you find them fun in any way

the server would be a bit empty without them?

i can name at least 3 people right off the bat that leave as soon as they start to show up, and im sure the list is longer than that

and dhsu i tend to agree with you except most people will just leave

I've only seen people leave due to team stacking. And people doing supremely retarded things breaks the game far more to me than a lack of chatting outside of the game.

[Powerlord]

The easiest counter to a medic chain would be one air blast pyro on the team. One single pyro stops a medic chain full force. Not once, in the entire time we chained, did any pyro airblast us. Even though, there was more then one pyro coming after us.

Another way, would be to have your own uber to prevent the charging. Harder but still pretty doable.

tl;dr Why ban people for the easiest strategy to counter?

Two things I feel I have to point out:

1. Having used the Pyro air blast to push enemies before, it doesn't always work that well, particularly if we don't know where the enemy is going to be.

Which is the case of spawn doors (notice I mentioned spawncamping in my earlier post), since pl_badwater's second Blue Team spawn, pl_badwater's Red Team spawns, and all spawns on cp_well have doors.

In the case of pl_badwater, the Red Team's starting spawn only has one working spawn room door prior to point 2 being taken, the other is locked. Don't believe me? Go check.

I was stuck behind that door as my teammates all tried to kill the medic-chain there. During that time, the cart moved from the tunnel before point 1 to nearly point 2... I barely got through the far door that locks when point 2 is taken (and then died immediately to the Heavy pushing the cart... I was playing Engineer at the time).

It also doesn't work well even in non-spawncamp times when you have other teammates with you.

2. As zircon has been already pointed out, we play for fun. Essentially, you're saying "Why don't you just change your play-style?" Simple: We're not a clan; we're a bunch of people playing to have fun. This includes complete strangers who connect to our server by finding it in the public servers list. We don't have some huge organization there where we say "You have to go do this."

We can encourage it, but not force it. And yes, it's a serious problem when the server population drops by 12 people on one map in the middle of our normal peak playing time... the server population never completely recovered from the mass exodus last night. On this graph, the huge downslope that started in pl_badwater directly corresponds to when you started medic-chaining:

If you want to practice clan techniques, I hear there's a great server for that at 8.12.70.175:27015 ("[ZUZ] Vanilla Server")

[Sensai]

I'm going to throw in a pair of shiny pennies on this.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Uber Chaining. That's all fine and good, and no one should be punished for that at all as it is clearly just for fun. Along these same lines, no one should be punished for playing X class in Y way, ever.

That being said...the server explicitly states that Spawn Camping is banned. Why? I dunno, it never really presents itself as much of a problem for me. But those are the rules that are, and we should play by them.

I think it's safe to say ZUZ has been told quite a few times that this is against the rules. I'm not saying what should be done or hinting at what should happen, I'm just throwing that out there.

@ atmuh, others: I've had a lot of fun playing with ZUZ. I have to disagree and say that they do talk, not as much as some people, but enough. I remember one time when it was 5 of us in the server, playing some awful map (I think it mighta been Fastlane) and we all had a pretty good time, dicking about and talking about it.

(Oh, P.S. @ ZUZ: you guys picked up Reset? Nice find...he's really pretty good.)

[starla]

Sorry to say but I have been playing less and less on the OCR server because it is no longer fun with this kind of thing going on. Pretty much the only times I come on is to melee battle with Tensei, otherwise it's just too competitive to be fun anymore.

You know, the whole "game = fun" laughable concept.

[Tensei]

<PrincessTensei> because, see, you can say it's easy to counter, but fact is, an entire team couldn't counter it, so it's not like you could have made much of a difference on your own.

<PrincessTensei> besides, it shouldn't be about countering a clan strategy, it should be about balanced teams having fun

<PrincessTensei> which is why it's also really gay how those ZUZ guys always go to the same team

<PrincessTensei> I'm like "Yes, we get it, you guys are awesome at this game and you are a coordinated team, now stop fucking around plz"

Just figured I'd throw my opinion out there

[Bleck]

You know, the whole "game = fun" laughable concept.

no games are only fun if I WIN ALL OF THE TIME TO SHOW I AM BETTER THAN OTHER PEOPLE

[Bahamut]

I'm going to throw in a pair of shiny pennies on this.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Uber Chaining. That's all fine and good, and no one should be punished for that at all as it is clearly just for fun. Along these same lines, no one should be punished for playing X class in Y way, ever.

That being said...the server explicitly states that Spawn Camping is banned. Why? I dunno, it never really presents itself as much of a problem for me. But those are the rules that are, and we should play by them.

I think it's safe to say ZUZ has been told quite a few times that this is against the rules. I'm not saying what should be done or hinting at what should happen, I'm just throwing that out there.

@ atmuh, others: I've had a lot of fun playing with ZUZ. I have to disagree and say that they do talk, not as much as some people, but enough. I remember one time when it was 5 of us in the server, playing some awful map (I think it mighta been Fastlane) and we all had a pretty good time, dicking about and talking about it.

(Oh, P.S. @ ZUZ: you guys picked up Reset? Nice find...he's really pretty good.)

Spawn camping has never been banned. Only spawn camping with sticky bombs.

And I'm going to reiterate, doing stupendously retarded things is far more fun breaking than you know, actually playing the game. If learning to play a game is considered competitive, then why the heck do you even play games? That line of excuse is one of the lamest excuses I ever see and only used to justify playing retarded to get a rise out of a team's frustration through intentional lack of cooperation.

[Bleck]

If learning to play a game is considered competitive, then why the heck do you even play games?

read; fun

some people like to just play games without needing to be good at them

[Bahamut]

read; fun

some people like to just play games without needing to be good at them

So what, some people like to play games to lose? That disrupts any notion of fun for the majority who like to try to win at games, and the notion of a game period. If you want to intentionally play mediocre, then why play any multiplayer game? Just that mindset disrupts the whole communal notion of a multiplayer game, video game or non-video game, with the only person having fun being the one who probably has no business playing any game.

Nobody said you had to be super serious when playing a game, but if you're going to play any game with other people, you should be trying to play to win naturally. Otherwise, quit spoiling the fun for everyone else who don't want to play games to lose.