Final Fantasy VII - Fighting (Rock Remix)

[SnappleMan]

So your not arguing the point of better sounds? What would you suggest then?

edit: Ah, man musical content again? (sorry didn't see that) I don't agree. I think that it has a lot of musical content. Why? Because the notes that are hit are the exact notes that came out of what I heard in my imagination.

Your imagination needs an imagination. The arrangement is bland and boring. Stop being overly defensive or you'll never improve as a musician, and believe me when I say, you need to improve as a musician... we all do...

[James_The_Composer]

Your imagination needs an imagination. The arrangement is bland and boring. Stop being overly defensive or you'll never improve as a musician, and believe me when I say, you need to improve as a musician... we all do...

What do you mean improve as a musician? Do you mean improve in the field of sound or the field of music?

[SnappleMan]

You're a lost cause, friend. I give up

[Rozovian]

I've found that crappy drums can sound half-decent if they're EQ'd and otherwise processed right. There are a lot of crappy drums available for free on the net. There are also some decent ones. Find them. That actually goes for every sound, there _is_ stuff out there.

I feel a bit responsible for the drama this wip thread has led to, tho I must say your attitude hasn't been the most constructive either.

Dunno how much you listen to ocr music, but do it. The creative and production standards means only the best stuff gets posted nowadays, so if you listen to stuff from the past few years, you should only be hearing stuff that's creatively arranged and well produced. Take the time to study it, learn form it. Personally, learning to listen has been the single most useful music skill I've ever learned. If you learn to listen, you can dig up music form anywhere, eg synth rock from the 80's and early 90's, and learn from it.

And the whole nitpicky focus on what's wrong is because one thing done right rarely makes up for one thing that's wrong. When nothing is done wrong, the music sounds... well, better.

[Tensei]

Fake Guitars based on free soundfonts WILL always sound horrible. It's not artistic liberty to go and say "To my tastes this sounds good!" when it comes to this. Your dismissal of suggestions for alternatives and improvement from the many people who have posted in this thread is dumb, if not outright rude.

You are fooling yourself by claiming the only way you can musically improve is through better samples. Want to know how to make shit sound better for free? Get a better (FREE!) string soundfont, learn to do shit like realistic velocity editing, automating the volume, adding vibrato, working with ADSR envelopes and using the proper articulation for each need (And this is only the strings I'm talking about!). A realistic sound is not achieved by slapping a more expensive sample library on a midi track, but by knowing how to work with the stuff you already have.

As for arrangement, again, compare it to like, any remix of this song you can find out there, and you'll see how bland this is in comparison. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, you have a shitton of things to learn before your arrangement will come anywhere near what I'd call 'good'.

Edit:

I don't understand...just 2 or 3 years ago MIDI Samples seemed to work perfectly. They were used in professional productions a lot more. I really liked the music in Naruto for example.

The music in Naruto Shippuden, though, uses all real instruments. I like sampled strings. They can have less reverb, and be more video-gamey rather than dramatic real instruments, which aren't working as well for it. The focus used to be more on the music and now it's more on the sound.

I'd also like to point out that this is a really dumb example in this case, because the Naruto OST has ALWAYS used real guitars and drums. With good reason.

[James_The_Composer]

Fake Guitars based on free soundfonts WILL always sound horrible.

That's not true. It's a matter of taste. Also, I did work really hard on the arrangement, even though I did only spend...I guess 30 minutes creating it. It's the MIDI guitar sound that I like within it. I guess the panning suggestions have come in handy, though.

Also, the fake guitars are based from the Sonic Refills Gold Collection.

You are fooling yourself by claiming the only way you can musically improve is through better samples. Want to know how to make shit sound better for free? Get a better (FREE!) string soundfont, learn to do shit like realistic velocity editing, automating the volume, adding vibrato, working with ADSR envelopes and using the proper articulation for each need (And this is only the strings I'm talking about!). A realistic sound is not achieved by slapping a more expensive sample library on a midi track, but by knowing how to work with the stuff you already have.

I already know this. Maybe you should check out my String Quartet Video Tutorial.

As for arrangement, again, compare it to like, any remix of this song you can find out there, and you'll see how bland this is in comparison. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, you have a shitton of things to learn before your arrangement will come anywhere near what I'd call 'good'.

Yes, I've compared the song to many, and I still enjoy what I've created. I would say that I find many of the remixes to be bland, especially those that use even BETTER samples. For example, the S&K3 collection with that final boss theme. It had a great sound, but melodically I thought that it fell short of the original. Why? It didn't keep the repetitiveness. It went on into guitar soloing and didn't focus more on the melody. He or She that remixed it could have created another melody completely that complimented the first one. Instead you hear soloing for half the song.

I've heard many songs that are slower, especially in the FF7 Remix Album in where you have some tracks in where your like "wait...what was the original melody for this song?"

I've found that people AVOID doing MIDI songs like the one I've presented. You either love the sound or fear the sound. I happen to love it. I think it's a great experiment, and a great breakthrough of directly converting GM MIDI into an MP3 arrangement.

Why do I look at it melodically over sonically? Well, listen for yourself to the Elder Scrolls 3 and 4 composers arrangement of the Final Fantasy 6 Theme. He has taken out most of the melody. This is what happens when you focus more and more sonically and less and less melodically. You end up with chords. Flat, no-tone chords.

I liked the part in where I had changed the melody around when the strings take the melody and I DO like how it sounds. That's why I've called it final. I will have more remixes that I do release here and they WILL have a focus on melody NOT a focus on sound.

[Tensei]

Don't post your stuff here anymore. It's already perfect, you don't need feedback from low-lifes. You're a musical genius!

[James_The_Composer]

Don't post your stuff here anymore. It's already perfect, you don't need feedback from low-lifes. You're a musical genius!

That's not my point. I've already thanked those that have given me advice that actually helps, but some have given me comments like "It would be like shooting yourself in the foot to call this complete".

[Tensei]

That's not my point. I've already thanked those that have given me advice that actually helps, but some have given me comments like "It would be like shooting yourself in the foot to call this complete".

Oh but it is your point. You choose to selectively disregard advice and suggestions about your mix based on whether or not you like it. This is not open-minded, this is arrogant. Never mind the fact that most of the feedback you seem to disagree with comes from actual remixers like me and Rozovian as opposed to wip-forum lurkers (no offense, guys ).

"Thank you for saying you like my mix! No, it can't be improved, I like it how it is LAAALAAALAAA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" <- This is you.

Doing some panning will do barely anything to improve this mix when the biggest issue is simply that the arrangement is incredibly bland. You can keep on making excuses involving personal taste, but fact is, this mix does not stand out at all if you compare it to other mixes of the same source with a similar concept.

[Necrotic]

but some have given me comments like "It would be like shooting yourself in the foot to call this complete".

They're probably just lying, anyways... right?

But seriously listen to Snapple and Tensei. They're actually not trying to discourage you from being good at making music. Quite the opposite.

They're just incredibly blunt and don't massage their thoughts to spare your feelings.

[James_The_Composer]

Oh but it is your point. You choose to selectively disregard advice and suggestions about your mix based on whether or not you like it. This is not open-minded, this is arrogant. Never mind the fact that most of the feedback you seem to disagree with comes from actual remixers like me and Rozovian as opposed to wip-forum lurkers (no offense, guys ).

"Thank you for saying you like my mix! No, it can't be improved, I like it how it is LAAALAAALAAA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" <- This is you.

Doing some panning will do barely anything to improve this mix when the biggest issue is simply that the arrangement is incredibly bland. You can keep on making excuses involving personal taste, but fact is, this mix does not stand out at all if you compare it to other mixes of the same source with a similar concept.

Hmmm...I guess your right.

They're probably just lying, anyways... right?

Man, I sure hope so.

I kind of feel bad for my taste for older soundtracks like Guilty Gear... Or even older soundtracks in where entire synthetic orchestras were used...Or even older soundtracks in where fake rock guitar was used (extremely rare!) and accepted (and these sounds for the most part are completely accepted by non-musicians/the-masses). I guess sometimes I have to think, why can't it come back?

There are songs I know that fellow musicians will say "Meh! It sucks!" to, and yet they can't feel the love that I feel for those songs. Oh well...

I think I've learned this much. Love does not know preference. If your looking for people to love your music, sound will not buy it.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Well James

as the other guy just said

They're not trying to discourage you.

Solo set aside (don't flame me if this hurts your feelings as a composer):

It's too close to the original, the lead is washed away so it can barely be heard, and it's slow so it doesn't have much energy. My brother Darkesword told me this:

"You need to have development. Highs and lows. Lots of energy and then low energy."

Tis what I've been trying to get into my head. It's hard, but it just takes a while. It'll turn out better, just give it time. It sounds good, so far. You've gone too far to give up on this, just keep going.

[jabond23]

Yeah, if your just gonna post a song just to post a song, don't do it in this forum. If you actually want feedback and criticism, this is the place to post your WIP.

Apparently though, this isn't a WIP anymore, and never actually was when you posted it here. I have 3 posts here so far, but i've gathered all the feedback and applied it to my WIPs. I'm still waiting to hear back on the last mix i submitted before i can sumbit my Zelda WIP, which i'm still correcting here and there based on what people said or have said about it.

Its good for you that you think your song is done and perfect, but with everyone telling you different maybe you should consider going back and maybe making some changes based on the feedback you've gotten so far and not take it so personally.

[Rozovian]

Yeah, if your just gonna post a song just to post a song, don't do it in this forum. If you actually want feedback and criticism, this is the place to post your WIP.

Actually, it's WIPs & Releases, but you're gonna get a critique pretty much regardless.

[Dj Mokram]

I've got nothing against a little dramarama, but let's save everyone some time by considering this:

That's my final version.

Now, I'm not taking anyone's side in this, but at least give the man a chance to prove himself by posting another song.

Then, if it goes well, we can all tag along and sing Kumbiyah together at some bonfire later.

[sephfire]

Nothing wrong with synth strings and guitars, but you have to know how to use them (listen to one of Protricity's mixes. Or Darkesword, I'm pretty sure he uses nothing but free samples and his stuff sounds fantastic).

Your problem isn't that synth-y sounds have mysteriously fallen from grace, it's that the arrangement you have right now is bland. It starts at one energy level and doesn't deviate from it much at all. You could really use some dynamics in there; some rise and fall in the energy level. The mix is muddy, too. It's hard to pick out the lead synth from everything else. And you haven't really got an ending, either. The mix just keeps going at its steady pace, just like it started, then it just stops.

Also, I did work really hard on the arrangement, even though I did only spend...I guess 30 minutes creating it.

There's your problem right there.

Here's a track that sounds roughly similar to the genre you seem to be aiming for. I can't tell if the guitar is fake or not, but you can hear how the energy keeps changing throughout the track.

http://www.sephfire.com/music/spreadyourwings.mp3

Don't be discouraged or take offense to the criticism offered in the thread. Though harsh, many of the points made here have been valid. This is an ideal environment to take feedback and improve your work. And feedback from peers is one of the best ways to improve at anything. Keep at it!

[SnappleMan]

It would be great if James' song had an intro, and an ending, and was a real song and not just a random clip cut out FROM a song. But whatever. Kids these days are too busy being told they can do anything and be anything, and feel like anything that they do is good enough cuz they like it, or they tried, or whatever else. You can't reason with them.

With experience comes the ability to tell that you really aren't a fraction as good as you thought.

[jabond23]

Actually, it's WIPs & Releases, but you're gonna get a critique pretty much regardless.

Oh yeah, its right in the forum NAME! lol

[sephfire]

With experience comes the ability to tell that you really aren't a fraction as good as you thought.

This is absolutely and soul-crushingly true.

[Gario]

Alright, James, get this through you mind - the people here are trying to help. They tell you what sounds bad so you may fix it and not have it sound bad anymore. Listen to the people here - they know what they're talking about. Everything that I say basically confirms what they're saying, so this isn't anything new.

Your mix is not perfect. It, in fact, has a long way to go before achieving that status. It's repetitive, the samples are mediocre (could be made up for with the proper use of reverb, btw), nothing stands out as a theme so the mixing could use an incredible amount of work (please take some time disambiguating the instrumentation, here - nothing is in the forefront nor background - the song sounds like mud, due to this) and finally (and most importantly) I can't find anything new in the music, thus claiming it as yours is pretty close to plagerism. You may be under the impression that it sounds good right now because the source was amazing and you practically repeat it note-for-note (with a few instruments added here and there). It's not your mix, right now - it's Nobuo Uematsu's music that sounds good. We need something that's involves your own rendition of the music in here (the bits you've added do not change the original nearly enough). By the way, I like the solo for the guitar starting at 0:51 seconds, but it is in the background so it doesn't sound like a solo (again, the mixing is terrible).

If you don't like constructive criticism (which is all you've gotten here) then I highly recommend not getting into music, at all. I'm serious. Everyone needs constructive criticism to grow as musicians, so if you don't use it your hindering your growth, thus leaving you as a stagnate, mediocre composer for the rest of your days. As much as you don't like it Tensei-san nailed it on the head - your picking and choosing what you like, not considering all of the criticism given.

What are your qualifications? What gives you the right to tell people they don't know what they're talking about (and disregard the advice that they spent their time and effort trying to give)? What you've said in this forum shows us you need to mature a bit before posting again - and don't take this lightly, either.

With experience comes the ability to tell that you really aren't a fraction as good as you thought.

Snappleman, that's a great bit of wisdom, there - it's now in my sig. My brother says the same thing... I agree with it completely.

[Aizen]

Hey James, I like it just how it is, I liked the original version too. Have it saved, listen to it plenty, has a real good rhythm and flow I think.

Seems most people get egotistical in their criticisms, sad.

[Tensei]

Hey James, I like it just how it is, I liked the original version too. Have it saved, listen to it plenty, has a real good rhythm and flow I think.

Seems most people get egotistical in their criticisms, sad.

There's this site called youtube.com, I think your feedback might be more suited to their standards.

[SnappleMan]

Hahahahah, well played tensei.

[jabond23]

Everytime there's a new post here, i HAVE to read it now! lol

This gets funnier all the time.

[SnappleMan]

This happens every time someone can't get past his own ego and accept the truth about his work. Eventually this will turn into a lulz thread, and then it'll either be locked or just abandoned. And we'll never hear anything else from James_The_Composer ever again. He'll get on his live journal and write stuff like "So what a let down OCRemix was, I thought they would be nice people but it turns out they're dicks. Oh well, I'll just release my music here anyway." And his 12 fans who don't know any better will support him until he disappears into obscurity and never touches music again.