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I just came out of lesson in which I wrote a little about who Laura is.

The main thing I wrote about was concerned with the following exchange:

James: What's a little girl like you doing here anyway?

Laura: Huh? Are you blind or somethin?

Most people use this line to assume that Laura has some deeper meaning for being in the game, but I have my own theory that it relates to James and Laura having met one another prior to the games release.

Well, if she spent alot of time with Mary in the hospital, then when James came to visit, he probably met Laura.

EDIT: I like my postcount

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I just came out of lesson in which I wrote a little about who Laura is.

The main thing I wrote about was concerned with the following exchange:

James: What's a little girl like you doing here anyway?

Laura: Huh? Are you blind or somethin?

Most people use this line to assume that Laura has some deeper meaning for being in the game, but I have my own theory that it relates to James and Laura having met one another prior to the games release.

Well, if she spent alot of time with Mary in the hospital, then when James came to visit, he probably met Laura.

He DID meet Laura. In Mary's letter to Laura it talks about James. I can't remember the exact text but it's something along the lines of "Don't hate James, he's a sweet guy, he's just very quiet".

It's the same letter which says that Mary and James intend to adopt her...which explains why Laura leaves town with James in the Leave ending.

So in that respect, she serves (to James at any rate) as an incentive to carry on. Find out what happened and get a daughter, y'know?

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I just came out of lesson in which I wrote a little about who Laura is.

The main thing I wrote about was concerned with the following exchange:

James: What's a little girl like you doing here anyway?

Laura: Huh? Are you blind or somethin?

Most people use this line to assume that Laura has some deeper meaning for being in the game, but I have my own theory that it relates to James and Laura having met one another prior to the games release.

Well, if she spent alot of time with Mary in the hospital, then when James came to visit, he probably met Laura.

He DID meet Laura. In Mary's letter to Laura it talks about James. I can't remember the exact text but it's something along the lines of "Don't hate James, he's a sweet guy, he's just very quiet".

It's the same letter which says that Mary and James intend to adopt her...which explains why Laura leaves town with James in the Leave ending.

So in that respect, she serves (to James at any rate) as an incentive to carry on. Find out what happened and get a daughter, y'know?

But why doesn't James remember her then?

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This is why I see it being beneficial to move beyond just that type of gameplay and towards a richer level- where emotions and feelings, like uneasiness and fear, are expressed in a more meaningful and consistent way. Where just the atmosphere alone or seeing something wandering around can start making you sweat. Where you don't even have to be surprised once to be seriously scared in a game.

This is what I'm hoping Silent Hill delivers, or at least touches on. 8)

It's funny that you say this, because the original and its predecessors do this. Personally, I think the first game was the master at it, not only because it was the first, but because it kept a theme throughout the game. It was a constant frightfest. Yet, it provided so many twists and turns to the idea of "scare tactic." There are the things that make you jump, but at the same time, the game has things that make you jump that aren't supposed to be scary at all. I can't count the number of times I've fired blindly at the fog because I thought something was there.

It's a great experience. I hope you enjoy it.

Silent Hill 2 Spoilers

There'd been three years since he last saw her.

That and he wants to repress everything that happened in Silent hill the last time he went (IE: Mary getting killed)

Actually, it doesn't say the last time James saw Laura, but we do know the time-frame to which most of the story took place. Still, there is a big chunk of time missing between when Mary got sick and when Mary died.

1.) James and Mary visit Paleville and South Vale.

2.) Mary gets sick and is diagnosed to live between 6 months and 3 three years.

3.) Mary meets Laura who possibly meets James.

4.) Laura's 8th birthday

5.) Mary writes letters to James and Laura. Mary plans to come home for a short stay. Gives letters to Rachel.

6.) James kills Mary. Blocks the last three years from his memory.

7.) Laura steals letters, runs away to look for Mary and goes to Silent Hill. Possibly taken there by Eddie.

8.) James goes to Silent Hill via South Vale.

9.) Maria wakes up.

10.) The rest of the story.

We know the time between Mary's letter to Laura and James' arrival in Silent Hill: about a week. Laura tells us so. It is quite possible that Laura's running away and Mary's death could have occurred on the same day or within two days. It is also possible that James' arrival at Lake Toluca and Maria's awakening occured simultaneously.

We know that James didn't visit Mary as often as he should have. So he must have spent that time elsewhere. Even so, James may have devoted the time he did spend with Mary strictly toward her and didn't give much attention to anyone else. "Who's Rachel?" ring any bells? When he blocked his memory of Mary's death, he probably believed that his time was spent elsewhere after Mary "died." So any people attacted to his visits to the hospital were probably blocked too.

There is still one more explanation as to why James doesn't remember Laura: his drinking. James admits to being a borderline alcoholic when you examine the liquor bottles in Heaven's Night. James probably spent most of his time drinking, instead of being by Mary's side. (Working at a bar has made me realize how much time you can waste on a $10 budget. A lot.) So, it is possible that James was either drunk or hungover during his visits to the hospital. This could excite his grumpy nature and also contribute to his lack of memory of anybody else associated with the hospital.

The truth is the is no real way to know why James didn't remember Laura, he just doesn't. Even after James remembers the truth about Mary, I'm not convinced that James even remembers Laura from the hospital. For all we know, Laura could still just be a figment of his imagination. That just depends on your beliefs of the story.

One last thing. Mary didn't really plan to adopt Laura, nor did James agree to such an arrangement. The letter states that IF things had been different, Mary (and Mary alone) was hoping to adopt Laura. Despite this, I think that having James adopt Laura does give him incentive to move on and helps carry on Mary's legacy. The intentions were correct; it's just the details that were messed up. I won't hold you to it.

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26 pages. Heh, I thought I liked Silent Hill. :) My current fave is the original, before it got a bit...weird. The voice-acting was really quite good, and the game felt distinctly American, and thanks to that felt like this could very well happen in some town down the road, you know? The game felt more fresh and interesting than most RE games, and the story had more beef to it than your average Living Dead movie rip (ie, Resident Evil.) I didn't much like the sequels, simply because they went a bit overboard with the strange cultural references and consequently lost a chunk of the game's originally "close to home" feel (you'll never look at hallways the same way again.) Silent Hill really resuscitated the sruvival-horror genre with a new kind of horror that didn't revolve around "big evil thing jumps through window," but rather through subjecting the player to a unique, psychologically-centric environment that is still underappreciated today. Wow--can't I run my mouth...

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Wow. Another Kentucky resisdent on OCR. Woo-hoo!

I agree. The game had a huge depth to it that it did almost feel alive. But, like I said, that was because the game as a whole had a consistency to it that made it memorable. I think though, that the sequels had a greater Japanese influence than the original, but still tried to be American. That hodge-podge of cultural differences could have broken the illusion of the town-next-door. Still, it should be noted that none of the sequels have actually crossed the path of SH1.

SH2 is relatively close, with the Lakeside Hotel being a stone's throw away from the Lakeside Amusement Park. Though SH3 is supposed to follow Harry's trail in the Amusement Park, the vibe is just not the same. This may be due to the concept that Konami wanted to express; that the experience through Silent Hill is different for each person who visits.

You could always fall back on the reputation of Team Silent's liking to cutting corners. Especially now, with them trying to create a new game in a shorter amount of time each sequel. I don't think it's easy to create the same kind of world if your deadlines get shorter and shorter.

But, I've noticed something about the fans of Silent Hill from talking to them and listening to the forums. There seem to be two schools of fans: the SH1 school and the SH2 school. In other words, those who came into the series through the first game versus those who were exposed to the sequel. The SH1 fans are more hardcore about the plotline and fright-factor of the games, while the SH2 fans focus on the story and well-being of the characters themselves.

Realizing this, I found myself in the SH1 catagory, but at the same time opening myself up to the SH2 side. Both are fun and neither is bad, but it does influence how you view the other games. Some say that SH2 wasn't a scary enough atmosphere, while others say that SH1 was too hard to relate to. I don't want to judge anyone this way, but it is important to think about how you view the games when trying to compare one another's views.

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What the hell do you mean, "woo-hoo," dammit?! lol, seriously though, I really do get where you're coming from. Though I enjoyed all three SH games immensely, and have in fact become a bit of a hardcore fan of the series (I'm listening to Silent Hill: Nay Tomorrow right now, man!) I have to say that the original just feels more like...er, Silent Hill. It's hard to describe, but the feeling of treading about a creepy, fog-laden town filled with things that would very much like to make you lunch is better realized in the original, and the bizarre, alien feel of the story resonates as much more creepy simply because it's so darn different than what you find in most games. I gotta hand it to Konami, they made a game that challenges the minds of its players still today, and continues to have us guessing as to what final, conclusive link the series-ending game will reveal, where the story weaves the incredibly different plots of each of the so far three different characters together, and what final mystery will be solved, finally showing us what each and every little clue actually MEANS. I mean, look at how many replies there are in this forum--it's just like Half-Life in it's peak. Silent Hill is THAT different, and THAT intriguing. It's not about blowing away mutated freaks (though that's in there for a nice effect) or running for your life (there, also in occasion,) but is rather more about discovering the hidden secrets of each character, every one having his or her own story to tell, which the player gradually learns about in sometimes disturbing ways, and therefore makes the series that much more compelling. A survival-horror game with CHARACTER?! Hm...discuss.

By and large, Silent Hill has affected a lot of us in the light that the game itself broadened our perspective of horror. Those dumb slasher movies (which might've terrified the hell out of us a few years before Silent Hill's release) now just seem stupid having witnessed something completely different, which actually uses the eccentricities of the mind to instigate fear, which Silent Hill does quite well. Instead of using buckets of blood and gore to chill you, Silent Hill actually taps into the subconscious, using horror effects from the likes of childrens' books or such out-of-the-norm sources of media to leave its own mark in the genre. Of course, it's not a particularly terrifying game, and it's really not meant to be, but it does on it's own end make you think, and the chills you get walking down a long, dark hall aren't entirely from the dread of accidentally stumbling upon a hellish apparition, but rather stem from the morbid anticipation of what strange new direction the plot will take once you go through a door to meet a pivital character another time. Its that creative use of the plot elements that makes the game score so well with me: the desire to find out what the hell is happening next, or what that weird scrawling of grafitti decorating the walls stands for. The beauty of it is, you really never quite figure it out, and it leaves you thinking at the end like a good book, instead of being another simple, static "story" with a simple beginning and conclusion.

Another great example is the weird air surrounding the protagonist of the second game. From the start, just by the overall design of the character, you know he's a troubled man. From his voice to the clothes he wears, he exhumes an aura of...for the lack of a better word, darkness. It's these clever design niches that seperate the series from it's others, and make it a truly different game. I went into the first one expecting a simple RE clone, in which you were charged with the over-worn task of blasting hordes of zombies. I was quite surprised--especially with the second game. It REALLY took an interesting twist when you find out that the main character actually is responsible for...well, I won't spoil it (if it hadn't already been revealed earlier in the forum.)

I think I've babbled enough, so I'll shut up now.

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Actually, it doesn't say the last time James saw Laura, but we do know the time-frame to which most of the story took place.

True. I'm just using my common sense here.

It is also possible that James' arrival at Lake Toluca and Maria's awakening occured simultaneously.

I woulda thought that this one was obvious, man.

Maria came to life because she was created to be the perfect version of Mary...who dies a lot to torture James for what he did (I cant be sure, but I think it says this in the DVD)

Laura could still just be a figment of his imagination. That just depends on your beliefs of the story.

I would say the fact that she leaves Silent Hill makes her real and not just in James' mind.

SH2 is relatively close, with the Lakeside Hotel being a stone's throw away from the Lakeside Amusement Park.

I worked out how SH1 and SH2 link to one another.

County Highway 26 (the road with the billboards on it) is connected to Sanford Street (where Lakeside Amusements and the Lighthouse are).

I'll tell you I was pretty pissed when I found out you didnt get to explore new areas of SH1 like the box promised.

Though SH3 is supposed to follow Harry's trail in the Amusement Park, the vibe is just not the same. This may be due to the concept that Konami wanted to express; that the experience through Silent Hill is different for each person who visits.

Or that heather doesnt follow Harry's route at all.

Heather approaches the merry-go-round from the direction that, to harry, was nothing (IE: The metal floor had been ripped up, nothing there). Similarly, Harry heads straight ahead to the merry-go-round, whereas heather has to make a left.

For further proof; harry never went in the front gate at lakeside amusements, Harry never saw the shopping ring, he never went into the shops, he didn't see a roller coaster (let alone walk on one) and he didnt see HALF the stuff heather sees (Teacup ride, Stage, Fortune teller, haunted house etc)

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This dividing the SH fans into two groups... I don't like it. Atleast not those groups. I, myself, first played SH1, and I have never been so scared in my life, as the first time I played it. I love that game. After that I actually played SH3, and lastly SH2. Although the atmosphere is different in every game, I enjoyed the SH2 atmosphere best. Some parts of SH1, and 3, seemed almost clisché(sp?), with a god-trying-to-take-over-the-worldish kind of thing, although that's not exactly what it's about. But SH2 had a special twist to things, and it made me feel... well... comfortably uncomfortable. I don't know, but I liked it, even if it wasn't that scary. It had alot more surprises that made me think "so THAT'S what happened" and such. I don't know, maybe this qualifies me to be in one of those two groups, I just didn't like the generalisation.

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Silent Hill 4 UPDATE: Spoiler Warning

And now the news. Yesterday, in Ashfield in the woods near Silent Hill, the bodies of five apparent murder victims and a sixth severly wounded female were discovered. The woman was immediately rushed to St. Jerome's Hospital, but died a short-time later of her injuries. She has been ident....

So the Silent Hill 4: The Room trailer has been released at the E3 convention. This is only the edited version so that too many spoilers would not be released. However, the full trailer (9"06" total) gives you a much better experience, the lyrics below and the news report mentioned above. You can find that trailer and the high quality "edited" trailer at www.sh2004.com in Room M. (Please note that a LZH decompressor is required to view the videos.)

For those who can read Japanese, maybe you would like to fill us in on what the site is saying. There are cards scattered on the site with some strange connections and images on them. I'm interested in knowing what the connection between the bottle, the doll's hair and the camera are, among others.

I already know what the connections to the previous SH games to SH4 are, but I figured I wouldn't say anything as to not ruin the surprise. So I won't. But, I will say that there are more than one. Though most sites claim to suggest that these references don't have any connection, I believe that they do. Once the game is released, I'll jump into the discussion.

Anyway, we finally learn the name of the Henry's next door neighbor: Elieen Gavin. Since, this is what I'd heard before, I assume that the name of the other woman is Cynthia. You know, the one with all the fancy jewelry. She along with a few others are still not confirmed as to their English names.

Lastly, for those who want the music from the trailers, you can find them here. (This is an Angelfire site, so bandwidth can very easily be consumed.) The song "Room of Angel" was taken from the "edited" trailer, so the extended lyrics (which are written below) are not included, but it still provides enough to listen to if repeated.

You lie, silently before me.

Your tears, they mean nothing to me.

The wind, howling at the window.

A love, you never gave, I give to you.

...really don't deserve it.

But now, there's nothing you can do.

So sleep, in your only memory.

Help me, my dearest mother.

Here's a lulaby to close your eyes.

It was always you that I despised.

I don't feel enough for you to cry.

Here's a lulaby to close your eyes...

[/spoilers]

Though I enjoyed all three SH games immensely, and have in fact become a bit of a hardcore fan of the series (I'm listening to Silent Hill: Nay Tomorrow right now, man!) I have to say that the original just feels more like...er, Silent Hill. It's hard to describe, but the feeling of treading about a creepy, fog-laden town filled with things that would very much like to make you lunch is better realized in the original, and the bizarre, alien feel of the story resonates as much more creepy simply because it's so darn different than what you find in most games.

Hardcore fans listen to "Mothes" by Akira Yamaoka. :wink: But anyway, the atmosphere of SH1 was more convincing because the game included rural, residential areas such as homes, schools, local businesses and neighborhoods. It was this very familiar environment that made it seem so tangible. (At least for people familiar with that sort of environment, which I know Corinth is like.) The sequels used locations that appealed to people in more urban, commercial environments, such as southern California and Portland, Oregon; which are the locations that the town was modeled after.

The only reason I made that "woo-hoo" comment is because I live in Lexington and I only know of one other person who visits OCR. So don't take it as a stab against people from Kentucky; I am just excited that there is someone else nearby that likes Silent Hill.

This dividing the SH fans into two groups... I don't like it. Atleast not those groups.

I didn't use the word "groups," I said schools. This means the place that influenced you the most in the experience. Now by saying this, I realize that is redundant to say the above. I just thought that was apparent. Anyway, the game that influences you the most will tend to influence the way you view the series. I was just suggesting that when you approach the others, including the new one, that you consider multiple angles to get a better understanding. That's all I wanted to point out.

Though SH3 is supposed to follow Harry's trail in the Amusement Park, the vibe is just not the same. This may be due to the concept that Konami wanted to express; that the experience through Silent Hill is different for each person who visits.

Or that heather doesnt follow Harry's route at all.

Heather approaches the merry-go-round from the direction that, to harry, was nothing (IE: The metal floor had been ripped up, nothing there). Similarly, Harry heads straight ahead to the merry-go-round, whereas heather has to make a left.

For further proof; harry never went in the front gate at lakeside amusements, Harry never saw the shopping ring, he never went into the shops, he didn't see a roller coaster (let alone walk on one) and he didnt see HALF the stuff heather sees (Teacup ride, Stage, Fortune teller, haunted house etc)

I really should have said that you cross Harry's path rather than following it. However, you do go to the same ice cream stand that the save pad was on in SH1. I found that save pad by accident when I got lost in the amusement park. Also, please note that I said "Heather follows Harry's path," not the other way around. You can follow someone's path and make your own at the same time. Still, Heather doesn't trace it step-by-step. I mean we don't even get to see the Sky Flower ride.

With reference to the details about Laura and Maria, I understand that most of the info seems obvious, but I've learn (somewhat) to say the things that may seem obvious to some, but not to others. It helps keep the air clear, since some people believe that Maria awoke before James arrives in Silent Hill, while others believe Laura is just an illusion. It's good to list your assumptions when making an argument in any direction, especially with Silent Hill, but you already know that. So I won't push it further. Sorry about that.

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i've been a fan of silent hill since the first one...

i've been keeping up with sh4 since it was annouced (comes out next month, wootage)

i just wanted to put my word in that akira yamaoka is a musical genius...

i love all of his music, and can't wait for his next sound track

incase you missed it i made this post of my own version of SH1's no tomorrow (played by yours truly on the piano)

http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35974 <--- link to post

any who, am i the only person that feels SH1 was the most freaky of them all? it may have been cause no one had ever seen anything quite like it before, i still have the PS magazine that announced SH1 was in production, and the one that reviewed it.

and comparing resident evil to SH isn't really a fair comparison, because RE is much more of a "jump out of no where and scare you to death" and SH is much more of a "omg wthat the hell is that?" type of scare that you can't sleep for a week after playing it, their both great games.

i just like SH more...

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Welcome to the discussion. Is there anything you'd like to add to the discussion? I know that there are numberous unanswered or unaddressed questions lying around. I mean there's 27 pages of discussion to elaborate on.

Anyway, nice to have another person on board. And just so you know, videogame remixes/rearrangements go in the Works In Progress: OC ReMixes. I'll listen to it soon.

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incase you missed it i made this post of my own version of SH1's no tomorrow (played by yours truly on the piano)

http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35974 <--- link to post

I just listened to it, and it was pretty good. It gave the feeling I got in the game, in that scene with Lisa.

I should also say, welcome to our thread. I hope the kind of theories that were discussed in the beginning, come again. Those were the most interesting ones. Do you have any theories you want to share?

Btw, ifirit, are you never on msn anymore, or do I just suck at timing?

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Now, let's revive that old discussion!!

I thought about Mary hanging upside down and stuff. The tarot card The Hanged Man (which is one of the cards used in SH3 to open to final door) is a card of a man hanging upside down. Although the hanged man is on a cross, Mary's "cross" could be her hospital bed perhaps. If you look at it, it resembles a metal hospital bed, without a matrass(spelling?) and such.

Quoting from a site with a description of its meaning:

"The Hanged Man often refers to taking time out for spiritual searching, perhaps using "unconventional means" of searching. It involves changing directions or perspectives. There is an element of waiting involved and sometimes sacrifice. It can indicate a Rite of Passage, an initiation or a transition. The card has sometimes been called the card of the Dying God. The Hanged Man means listening to your inner self, sometimes even when it seems to go against logic. It means looking at things in new and different ways. It also indicates unconventional behavior. It is a time of being alone often and reflects the need to withdraw from time to time in order to recharge or regroup your inner energies."

Now, I see several similarities here, with SH2. (Also they had several references to hanged men in the game) I don't have time to interpret all of it at this moment, but maybe you can to it for me. But the card being the card of the Dying God, could be referring to remains of Samael's power perhaps? He is dying, since the encounter with Harry, but he linguers in Silent Hill still.

There was talk of the Hanged Man card also had alot of connections with water. Don't see any connections with the game here, except for maybe the lake, and the In Water ending.

"Astrologically, the Hanged Man is connected to the planet Neptune, and there are some obvious and clear connections between the two. Some of the negative traits of Neptune do not normally apply to the Hanged Man, however. The color of the Hanged Man is blue, the musical note is G sharp, the Hebrew letter is Mem, meaning water or waters (such as an ocean). The Qabalistic Intelligence of the Hanged Man is Stable Intelligence. (This really seems like a strange choice to me. I would not characterize the Hanged Man as stable at all.) Other attributions of the Hanged Man are the concepts of reversal and the suspended mind. The Esoteric Title is the Spirit of the Mighty Waters. The Hanged Man is on the 23rd path of the Tree of Life, between Hod and Geburah. Robert Wang calls this card the path of baptism into the Maternal Water. He also says that it is a path of "eternally unresolved possibilities. It is openness without beginning or end."

Neptune is often the great dissolver; Neptune is also sometimes the planet of transcendental ecstasy, and that fits as well. Neptune rules the sign of Pisces (Moon card), and I can see the connections between the Moon and the Hanged Man. The Hebrew word that corresponds to the Tree of Life path that the Hanged Man is on, is Mem, meaning water or waters. I think that both Neptune and the Hanged Man are each more closely related to Mem, water, than they are to each other, but the entire connection seems to work quite well here."

I don't recall the other tarot cards that were used in SH3, except for the priestess. Could someone check up on these?

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I thought about that too, about her hanging upside down and stuff. The tarot card The Hanged Man (which is one of the cards used in SH3 to open to final door) is a card of a man hanging upside down. Although the hanged man is on a cross, Mary's "cross" could be her hospital bed perhaps. If you look at it, it resembles a metal hospital bed, without a matrass(spelling?) and such.

Quoting from a site with a description of its meaning:

"The Hanged Man often refers to taking time out for spiritual searching, perhaps using "unconventional means" of searching. It involves changing directions or perspectives. There is an element of waiting involved and sometimes sacrifice. It can indicate a Rite of Passage, an initiation or a transition. The card has sometimes been called the card of the Dying God. The Hanged Man means listening to your inner self, sometimes even when it seems to go against logic. It means looking at things in new and different ways. It also indicates unconventional behavior. It is a time of being alone often and reflects the need to withdraw from time to time in order to recharge or regroup your inner energies."

This is offering some very good insight into the meaning of Silent Hill 3. I mean, you've gotta admit the plot to the sequel was very easy to follow, but it was hard to tell if there were any deeper connections than the obvious. Yet, looking at the relevance of the "Hanged Man" card, I can make some better theories and connections.

Silent Hill 3 was the only game to seriously look at religion from the follower's perspective and not a by-standers or historian's. The focus just seems to be about Claudia's search for love, since it seems she was not shown much. Her only real source of love, affection or whatever you want to call it came from the seven-year-old Alessa. Claudia just wants her back, sort of the same way Laura wants Mary back.

Though I can see some ties with SH2, I think it is more relevant to the plot or philosophy of SH3. Once I sort everything out, I'll report my findings.

Now, I see several similarities here, with SH2. (Also they had several references to hanged men in the game) I don't have time to interpret all of it at this moment, but maybe you can to it for me. But the card being the card of the Dying God, could be referring to remains of Samael's power perhaps? He is dying, since the encounter with Harry, but he linguers in Silent Hill still.

I don't think the "Dying God" part refers directly to Samael, but more towards the Older Gods mentioned in the "Lost Memories," "Crimson Book" and the various files around the town. Remember, there are other gods like Lobsel Vith, the yellow god and Xuchilbara, the red god. "God created beings to lead people in obidience to Her... many gods and angels."

You're also right about the many references to hangings in SH2, so I understand the idea of being upside-down. Yet, the references all have the person hung right-side up. Maybe a better explanation is the skewering form of execution. Remember how Maria dies the last time before the end? She is hung upside-down in the "skewering cage" (not sure what else to call it) and then speared by one of the Pyramid Heads, a formal execution in the Toluca Prison. And, when you fight the demon form of Maria, she is still in that same cage and position. Also, if you notice after the Pyramid Head fight, there is no body or sign of Maria's death.

I believe that there is some significance of the bed as Maria's final form, seeing as how it was Mary's murder site. Yet, I don't see it as the only source of influence. Though, we can tell the art designer's were trying to pick a scary design for the final boss, maybe they also played on some hidden fears in James. Maybe James had an aversion to things that were hung upside down. Maybe he was afraid of bugs, which could explain the use of swarms and the scorpin-like tail. Maybe James had some experience with the scewering form of excusion, causing an emotional scar that Maria exploited. I'm not saying that James was executed, even in that manner, but that maybe he had some contact with it in the past and it manifeasted here.

Wait! I just thought of something. Since I think Maria's final form looks like a form of execution performed in the Toluca Prison, Maria's form may represent the idea of being executed. Mary had been sick for a long time and towards the end had accepted that fact that she was going to die. So, she was just waiting for death. Then, James took her life in a short, but exection-like manner. (Note that he tucks her in, fluffs her pillow, and kisses her on the forehead before he smothers her.) It causes him a lot of pain later that he did this and especially so in the hotel. By taking the form of being executed, not only earlier in the game, Maria is trying to exploit his pain about being a murderer. She was just conveying the thing he regretted most.

There was talk of the Hanged Man card also had alot of connections with water. Don't see any connections with the game here, except for maybe the lake, and the In Water ending.
"Astrologically, the Hanged Man is connected to the planet Neptune, and there are some obvious and clear connections between the two. Some of the negative traits of Neptune do not normally apply to the Hanged Man, however. The color of the Hanged Man is blue, the musical note is G sharp, the Hebrew letter is Mem, meaning water or waters (such as an ocean). The Qabalistic Intelligence of the Hanged Man is Stable Intelligence. (This really seems like a strange choice to me. I would not characterize the Hanged Man as stable at all.) Other attributions of the Hanged Man are the concepts of reversal and the suspended mind. The Esoteric Title is the Spirit of the Mighty Waters. The Hanged Man is on the 23rd path of the Tree of Life, between Hod and Geburah. Robert Wang calls this card the path of baptism into the Maternal Water. He also says that it is a path of "eternally unresolved possibilities. It is openness without beginning or end."

Neptune is often the great dissolver; Neptune is also sometimes the planet of transcendental ecstasy, and that fits as well. Neptune rules the sign of Pisces (Moon card), and I can see the connections between the Moon and the Hanged Man. The Hebrew word that corresponds to the Tree of Life path that the Hanged Man is on, is Mem, meaning water or waters. I think that both Neptune and the Hanged Man are each more closely related to Mem, water, than they are to each other, but the entire connection seems to work quite well here."

Another interesting connection to water: the one reference to Metratron I was able find related to Tarot about the Ace of Cups, which represents a cup that flowed a fountain of water, similar to the "Holy Grail."

I don't recall the other tarot cards that were used in SH3, except for the priestess. Could someone check up on these?

The other four cards were the "Priestess," the "Fool," the "Eye of Night," and the "Moon" cards. The numbers on the cards may also have some significance. They are II, 0, XXII, and XVIII respectively. The number for the Hanged Man is XII.

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I checked up on the Eye of Night tarot card, since it doesn't really exist in any tarot deck of cards. But the only thing I could find, was a book called "The Eye of Night", where the main character is a female magician. I will quote some stuff from a review:
The Troubles coming down from the North threaten to engulf the world in chaos. Even time and reason seem frayed to the breaking point. Jereth, disillusioned ex-priest of the Rising God and sole survivor of a shipwreck, finds his own life the perfect mirror of a world spiralling toward catastrophe. He has nothing; he has nowhere to go. But then one night he meets two mysterious women, a prophet and a fool, each with her own secrets. They involve him in a quest to save the world from death by traveling into the heart of the Troubles, bearing a talisman of night. He follows them without really understanding their quest – for their dark vision gives him his first glimpse of hope. But what can three penniless vagabonds, unarmed and unprepared, do about forces that threaten to crack the world?

Magic is alive in the world but it has insignificant affect on the troubles in the North. Kingdoms are at war with one another; plagues sweep the land; and earthquakes destroy whole cities. The weather plays havoc on the crops; drought is common; and the cattle dies from extreme thirst. The people in the North are traveling but that will do them no good because the troubles accompany them southward.

Three people on a quest are moving against the trend by heading northward. The mystic Hwyn, the beautiful simpleton Trenara, and the former priest Jereth follow the instructions of the Sky-Raven's Egg. Hwyn knows that the Eye of the North is readying itself to give birth and that it could mean the death of civilization or something quite wondrous.

THE EYE OF NIGHT is a beautiful epic fantasy starring three protagonists chosen by the gods to play a pivotal role in the rebirth of a world. Readers will be surprised to realize what these roles will be but it is all tied together in a way that makes sense. This is Pauline J. Alama's first novel but with the talent she displays with this strong tale, the audience will realize there will be more forthcoming. Just having patience to wait will prove nerve wracking.

And then some things about the main character and her main adversary:

Inner Struggle Yes

Plotlet: - search for identity/new understanding - coping with mental/magical powers

Sound like Heather?

Main Adversary

Identity: - natural phenomena - Male

Hmm...

I also found it mentioned here, if you search for eye of night there. Don't know what it means though. But I think the Qabalah is the book used to inerpret the tarot cards, but it says here Book of Numbers.

Perhaps the locations of the five cards in SH3 has some meaning. I will quote from a faq, the location and description of the different cards, that you could read in your inventory:

Item Name: "Moon" Tarot Card

Location: On the table in the Library of the Church, 1F.

Description: Found this in the archives. I don't think it's an expecially good card.

Item Name: "High Priestess" Tarot Card

Location: On the bed in Claudia's room in the Church, BF.

Description: Didn't this card mean something like "Genuine Belief"?

Item Name: "Hanged Man" Tarot Card

Location: On the gurney in the morgue in the Church, BF.

Description: This was in that morgue-ish place. It's such a pitiful card.

Item Name: "Fool" Tarot Card

Location: Inside the book in the hospital room in the south hallway on BF.

Description: This was in my old room... in a hospital room. What did this one mean again?

Item Name: "Eye of Night" Tarot Card

Location: On the ledge behind the altar in the Chappel on 1F, Church.

Description: Found this in the chapel. Is this a real tarot card, though?

There. Can you make something out of this?

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Silent Hill 3 & 4 Spoilers

Thanks SZ for reviving the topic. Sorry, I haven't gotten around to posting anything. Anyway, for those just tuning in, I wanted to revive this discussion because I uncovered some new info from Team Silent regarding the relevence of the Tarot cards to the games in Silent Hill.

So, as it goes, we were drawing references and meanings from the cards found in Silent Hill 3 as a means of looking deeper into the connections with SH2 and the paired story from 1 & 3. There were questions regarding the similarities between the Hanged Man card and the visual imagery of hanging used in SH2. The style really set the tone for the darker aspects while still drawing on it's relevence to the plot and subsequent theories.

But from interviews and documentaries with members of Team Silent, the use of Tarot was also extended to the major ideas of the games, as well as the minor. (You can find the source information on this site. I recommend visiting the whole site, as it is the most organized, condensed and comprehensive site regarding the details of Silent Hill and it's sequels. Though, it is a little biased on certain details.)

Anyway, the site used the Tarot representations of the Town of Silent Hill, otherwise known as "Misty/White Silent Hill," and the Alternate version, known as Alternate Silent Hill.

The Town of Silent Hill is given the association with the Tarot card of "Strength." Though the card does not mean literal strength, it does refer to the power that holds influence over others, such as in a reading: the influence that is causing a problem or dilema in the person's life. Since most people think of the Town of Silent Hill as the actual town itself, the site suggests that the power innate to the town comes from the very land it sits on. This is quite logical considering the town's history and heritage. However, I would like to broaden this theory to the concept of the power itself, as location isn't particularly important considering that most of SH3 takes place outside of Silent Hill. This is also inferred by the quote from Lost Memories.

The Tarot card used to represent the Alternate side of Silent Hill is "The World." This card most commonly represents the completion of a cycle or the summation of all things. It refers to the attainment of truth or wisdom. However, it has negative connotations as well; it can represent the fear or lack of vision that prevents one from proceeding further. It also can represent the concern for the environment or one's surroundings, an abuse of laws of nature. The Alternate Silent Hill can be a place that either hinders or progresses one's path to the truth, as many of you know. Though, it can also be a place that brings things around full-circle, which is the form that "Nowhere" commonly assumes.

I wanted to show people the Tarot representations of the faces of Silent Hill as means of another representation that people can use in order to better understand the purposes and meanings of the games. Think of this as an annex to the discussion above. There is no real direct connections to the games themselves, but it was a nice departure from the black-and-white analysis I normally take.

EDIT: I just want to give a few quick Silent Hill updates, now that E3 is over.

Well with regards to Silent Hill 4: The Room, besides the new trailers, Konami set up a life-size replica of Henry's main living quarters as the booth. It was highly accurate, despite the production values. Akira Yamaoka was present answering questions about the game. I found a few pictures of the booth, but sadly, none of quality or interest. Still, if you'd like to see them, PM me.

I found two videos of some interviews with members of Team Silent about SH4. (Japanese version only.) These videos also show some extra footage of the game, including a sample of Henry's voice. **Possible Spoiler Warning**

Video 1 (Link no longer available)

Video 2 (Link no longer available)

Also, it appears that new information has been released about the Silent Hill movie. At this year's Canne Film Festival, posters advertising the Silent Hill movie as well as Onimusha 3 were seen at the convention. I don't have any details as of right now, but I will find out more soon.

Movie Poster

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Man, I wish i could read the words on that poster... I like the use of the second's logo(at least, I'm pretty sure that's the same font used for the second game...)

It kinda reminds me of the mock-up poster I did when the movie was announced(the second time)... Let me see if I can scrounge it up.

sh-poster.jpg

...wow, that didn't take anywhere near as long as I thought it would to find...

Sure the date is wishful thinking, and it's 12 types of cheesy, but I didn't spend too much time on it, anyway. Can't wait for that movie to come out. Maybe now that we're getting a movie, we might finally get that Pyramid Head action figure :)

Sorry I don't have much interesting to add in the way of deep meanings or what have you to the storylines, but I never really was a deep kind of person. I do, however, love me some Silent Hill, and reading through this thread has given me the itch to go back and play through SH2 again.

Awesome thread, tho. I'm keeping my eye on this, everyone has some excellent input and it makes for some good reading.

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Rumor Control:

One of the details surrounding the movie is that it is rumored to be released by the end of the year. I don't have any confirmation on this, nor anything new as of yet. Konami has kept such a tight lid on this project since it's conception that it will take a while to dig anything up, unless there is an official press release.

Back to the theories. Part III. Silent Hill 1 & 3 Spoilers

I was just looking around at some stuff from SH3 and for some reason I had this explanation for the why the world is as such outside of Silent Hill. Since Heather, Cheryl and Alessa are all the same person now, why is it that people have not looked at the characteristics of one and applied it to the others? Heather has the same fears, aspirations, hopes and dreams as both Cheryl and Alessa. So, when a situation that occurs similarly to the first game, why shouldn't she react the same way?

Alessa created the Misty Silent Hill to escape from Dahlia who was trying to abuse her power. She used monsters to stop those who would persue her; she created puzzles and locks to prevent those people from moving forward. At the same time, she was trying to prevent Dahlia and her pawn from finding her, though she didn't have complete control of her powers. This is where Lisa and the Alternate Silent Hill came from. The Alternate universe created when Samael/Incubus was excited or threatened. It was a last-ditch effort to keep others at bay.

Cheryl had a deep love of her adopted father and tried to share that love with Alessa once they were together. Out of this shared experience came Lisa, but after her creation, her actions were not as easily controlled. From Heather's experiences, we learn that she wanted nothing more than to be with her family (as small as it was).

I explain this first as a way of showing the similarities between Heather and her predicessors. Though throughout the latter part of the game, we are continually told that Heather is Alessa and that she has some greater role to fill, but Heather does not identify with her as much because of her experiences. We learn of the person she identifies with from the Normal Ending.

Anyway, back to the point. Heather reacted the same way to being approached by "strangers" as she did in the first game. But first, a little more back story. From the notebook we find in the amusement park, we learn that Harry killed a person who was trying to invade his home, when Heather was 12. Douglas comments that it is just an "occult freak." Regardless, of whether or not it was a member of the "Hope House" cult, it rattled the memories that Alessa had about the search for her. Though it didn't explain why Harry choose to move away from that place. It may have been a combination of trying to evade further followers and Heather's reaction to a past, similar experience.

What is the reaction that she has? It is very possible that the reaction is recreating the Misty Silent Hill. I am basing my entire theory on this claim. The reasoning for this is from the reaction that Heather has to Douglas' initial questioning. Heather runs away, but at the same time, the power within her is helping her run away as well. The power is changing the world subconciously from Heather's mind. Similar creatures that appeared in Silent Hill are appearing in her town, her home. The only difference now is that Heather is caught in the middle. The monsters can affect her and kill her. So as a countermeasure, Vatiel may have been summoned to protect Heather or to watch over her as she tries to run away. (It also dongs on me now that her goal in the game was stated in the manual.) So, it appears that Heather is being rather self-destructive throughout the entire game. She has brought this world upon herself because she was scared to talk to a stranger.

However, Heather does not open up the Alternate universe on herself. We know that this is done so by Claudia. Claudia saw that the Misty universe was opened up and hoped that the Holy Mother had been awakened. However, when she met Heather and realized that her "true self" was still dormant, she pulled open the gate to the Alternate dimension. However, this too could also explain why Vatiel is summoned, so I'll have to leave him open-ended for now. Anyway, Claudia did this so it would cause Heather to remember the pain and suffering brought upon herself and reveal the memories of Alessa. Well, it worked, but Claudia did not expect Alessa to have changed over the years. Alessa was absorbed into Heather's being. If Claudia had known that in the beginning, would she still have tried to open paradise? My thoughts are probably, since I stated before that Claudia's motivation stemmed from a deeply rooted psychosis: her father.

There is so much more that I could get into now that I've found some of the deeper meaning in the game. Everything is intertwined and connected together in SH3, it could take a while to straighten it all out.

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