Left 4 Dead 2 - now $6.80 on Steam!

[EdgeCrusher]

I looked on Steam, but I didn't see any links to pre-ordering it there. Am I completely missing it somehow?

Gamestop preorder. 5 dollars down on it gets you early access to the demo plus 5 bucks off the game not counting the 5 dollars you are depositing.

[Bahamut]

Gamestop preorder. 5 dollars down on it gets you early access to the demo plus 5 bucks off the game not counting the 5 dollars you are depositing.

But on the flip side tax is almost $5. Also, Valve may do a deal like what they did with the 4 pack last year...so I personally will wait.

[EdgeCrusher]

Eh, I can't wait that long for a l4d game If I could, Id get it from g2play

[The Damned]

Damn it, I want to pre-order on Steam now.

[big giant circles]

Chadly, you should convince your real-life friends to be smart and play it on PC. 'Cause that's where Big Giant Circles hangs out. >>

Fixed that for you.

Fixed that for you.

Yeah man, but seriously, that's cool that they're your real-life friends, but there's just as many cool/fun people to play it with you online. And seriously, your friends need to wise up and play it on the platform that

1)costs less

2)receives updates/fixes/new content more frequently

3)rinse & repeat

[Triad Orion]

Fixed that for you.

Yeah man, but seriously, that's cool that they're your real-life friends, but there's just as many cool/fun people to play it with you online. And seriously, your friends need to wise up and play it on the platform that

1)costs less

2)receives updates/fixes/new content AT ALL

3)rinse & repeat

Fixed this for you, BGC. XD

[JCvgluvr]

Umm...well...wow. If Valve can convince the leaders of the boycott...maybe I had no reason to complain in the first place...I just really didn't think that 1 year was enough time to produce a quality product.

But maybe it is, when Valve is on the job. As of now, I'm more optimistic in regards to the issue as a whole. Sweetness.

[big giant circles]

Damn right you had no reason to complain in the first place.

I'm just tired of people finding every possible reason to be dissatisfied. It's completely preposterous. Remember back when you had to pay for every sequel, and nobody complained? I don't seem to recall anyone being upset when, say, Sonic 2 was released in '92 after '91 had already produced Sonic 1.

My theory? Because back then people were just excited to get a new game. They weren't a generation of greedy, self-entitled, whiny douchebags.

[EdgeCrusher]

People are greedy fucks now. Theres actually a petition going on right now concerning Aion, because the first 3 days of the open beta had horrible lag. People are petitioning to push back release date of the game for a set amount of time because they couldn't play those 3 days.

[Hale-Bopp]

What would one expect to pay nowadays for a relatively decent PC that can handle all these wonderful Steam games, including newer ones like L4D2?

/PC gaming n00b

[EdgeCrusher]

I paid 900 bucks for this Dell XPS 420 system I have at walmart, and bought a 100 dollar Geforce 9800 GT, and less than 30 bucks for 3 extra gigs of ram for it. Runs TF2/L4D1 and just about every other game Ive thrown at it at 1440x900 (max monitor res) with great framerate.

[DusK]

I paid about 800$ total for mine. HP Pavilion with an AMD Phenom 8400, 3GB RAM, and a 640HDD for about $500, then popped in a GameXstream 700w PSU and an ATI Radeon HD4870 512MB which ended up totaling about $300 in upgrades.

That system handles everything I throw at it my max res (1440x900) with at least 2XAA at a solid 75FPS with vsync, 'cept Crysis.

That was just the tower, though. Monitor was from my last PC.

[Rambo]

I'm just tired of people finding every possible reason to be dissatisfied. It's completely preposterous. Remember back when you had to pay for every sequel, and nobody complained? I don't seem to recall anyone being upset when, say, Sonic 2 was released in '92 after '91 had already produced Sonic 1.

The two are incomparable. This is an online game.

Presumably, everyone who liked L4D will be buying L4D2. The people who don't have the money for it, or don't want to get it are going to have to deal with a massive community drain. There will be far fewer servers to pick from, and likely a lot fewer friends to play with. This is inevitable, but it usually doesn't happen in such rapid succession.

People bought L4D expecting the lifespan of a conventional online game. And it's not going to deliver. People buy 1P console games expecting a 1P console game. And they get it.

This all being said, I don't own or plan to own any L4D game. But I can understand people who are a little ticked off at this turn of events.

I'll agree with you however, that people are much harder to please today than they used to be.

[Hale-Bopp]

Wow, those sound like some bad ass systems. I don't think I will be able to afford anything like that anytime soon, actually. Nice to know what's best though.

[big giant circles]

The two are incomparable. This is an online game.

Naw man, that's a sorry excuse. It's a single player game that has online playability, plus, that's beside the point entirely.

But I can understand people who are a little ticked off at this turn of events.

Well, there's nothing to understand beyond the point that people are greedy little squats nowadays. That is the ONLY reason people are pissed. Every reason people have thrown out that they're bitching at Valve for is complete and utter BS. They're mad because Valve didn't release updates/addons for L4D? Give me a break. They've fixed a zillion things and given us more vs maps and survival mode (and Crash Course is due shortly). "But L4D2 is being released too soon" Give me a damn break. Seriously.

I shouldn't even have to reiterate all the completely NEW stuff that's going to be in L4D2.

Again, it's complete greed that is flat out DOMINATING this issue, and it disgusts me.

[EdgeCrusher]

Its not that its lacking in terms of online games. L4D has had more support than a large majority of PC games. People are just whiny mccrybags about it cause its a Valve game, and they expect TF2 fan service from them now. And I hate to tell that to people but thats not always gonna be the case. Valve has been very kind in terms of TF2, but L4D is not TF2. It is just showing how greedy people are by making boycotts and saying "Gabe is trying to fuck us hurrrrrrr". Might as well post that on fatwallet.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I don't mind L4D2 either. And honestly, in this age of DLCs everywhere, does this really surprise anyone? I find it hilarious that the so called 'hardcore' L4D players and PC elitists find it so hard to swallow especially when you'd think they'd be used to this by now.

At least it's not as bad as many PS3-add-ons that goes anywhere from $15-$50+(Disgaea 3) for the DLC packs.

May as well go with a new game if they have to pile on the DLCs that way. ODST is a pretty smart move by Bungie from that line of thought as well. Same for the GTA4 episodes.

[Triad Orion]

People bought L4D expecting the lifespan of a conventional online game. And it's not going to deliver. People buy 1P console games expecting a 1P console game. And they get it.

Though, let me throw this out there. The average lifespan for a so-called conventional online game *really* isn't that long. You have rare gems like StarCraft, or Counter-Strike, or Call of Duty 4, or what have you, but in modern times the competitive, popular online aspect of many games dies out as quickly as it begins. Most games that offer online capability don't see massive long-term popularity; more often, it's games from a specific company.

Yes, Left 4 Dead had a short shelf life, but only in context of Valve released games. Many other shooters see either sequels or a drained community within the period of time Left 4 Dead and its sequel. And really, I'm just inclined that people became bratty and took it personally when Valve said they would support it with content and then they backed out. Yeah, I see why people are pissed, but as I've said before, you purchase a product based on what it is when it comes out of the box, not what it might be after a couple patches. The problem is the same it is with anything: you take a risk when you invest in something.

Then they go pissing and moaning to Valve because they don't think they got their investment worth. It isn't going to solve anything for them. L4D's "fans" often just don't seem to get this, and it's quite frustrating. A lot of these so called fans have probably played the game for forty hours, so they got the same wear out of it they would've if it was single player anyway!

And really, when thinking from a design standpoint, I honestly think Valve is telling the truth about the difficulty of adding new things into L4D without fundamentally changing its design. This is especially the case in Versus mode. A new Survivor weapon could either be utterly worthless, or it could just as easily end up better than the other weapons. Likewise, maps were not designed with new Special Infected in mind either. Imagine a Spitter from L4D2 showing up in L4D and blocking off chokepoint corridors with DoT spit. You don't have a way to avoid it, and it can quickly turn into something easily exploitable. And if it's not easily exploitable, a new special infected, like a weapon, could simply be useless.

Really, a whole new game makes sense in this context. Yeah, it came out fast, but mechanically after releasing Left 4 Dead, Valve realized just how much more they could make the game, and making it an expansion ultimately was just not an option. And if they turn out a high-quality product that is superior to the original game, I'll buy it. I had lots of fun with the original Left 4 Dead and I got my fifty bucks worth out of it. Support or no, it was still more engrossing and entertaining than many console games I've paid a similar price for.

[JCvgluvr]

Remember back when you had to pay for every sequel, and nobody complained? I don't seem to recall anyone being upset when, say, Sonic 2 was released in '92 after '91 had already produced Sonic 1.

Eh, not to nitpick, but I wouldn't compare a short, 16-bit game with an online, current gen game if I were you.

[big giant circles]

Eh, not to nitpick, but I wouldn't compare a short, 16-bit game with an online, current gen game if I were you.

Come on guys, I'm losing complete faith in some of y'all here.

It's the principle of the matter, for one. Look at the differences from Sonic to Sonic 2. They're essentially the "same game" in the same sense. But there are new levels and new characters and bosses. Sound familiar?

Second, heck, most people were vocal that L4D was in fact "too short" when it was released. All 4 campaigns can be completed in ~4 hours.

I'm a little bothered that I have to remind you (again) that Valve HAS supported L4D with bug fixes and new content.

[Triad Orion]

Adding on to BGC's post, I would also like to add that Valve has supported it through massive balance fixes, particularly for Versus Mode. A lot of other online games don't bother much with balance fixes beyond one, maybe two patches. Valve has explicitly tried to polish the Left 4 Dead experience further beyond its release to make it more enjoyable and intense for Infected and Survivor alike.

[JCvgluvr]

I hear what you're saying BGC, but shouldn't there be a lower level of expectations with Genesis games then there are with Xbox 360 games? Games back then didn't cost as much to make, had less staff, had a different demographic, etc.

[big giant circles]

I hear what you're saying BGC, but shouldn't there be a lower level of expectations with Genesis games then there are with Xbox 360 games? Games back then didn't cost as much to make, had less staff, had a different demographic, etc.

And I reiterate that you are missing the point entirely.

Besides, think about what you just said.

They cost more to make now and require more people. And now after you have acknowledged this, does it not strike you as senseless that people are demanding it as either a free/cheap expansion?

The demographic is completely and entirely irrelevant. I used Sonic because it's the first example that popped into my head. I suppose you can make the same point with, say Metroid Prime if you want a more recent example with a larger team of programmers. Look at the differences between 1 and 2 (of either game). The gameplay is more or less exactly the same, only in 2 there are some new abilities, new levels, new enemies and characters. Does this sound familiar?

My point is that nobody boycotted either of those games pissing and moaning that they should be free expansions. And the whole "but BGC, L4D is an online game, that's totally different" is not now, or not ever going to be a valid or relevant point in this discussion. A game is a game.

The whole fickleness of gamers nowadays is part of the core reason for my disgust. Especially concerning a company like Valve. I mean, out of every game producing company, compare Valve to any other and I don't believe anyone in their right and fair mind can deny just how generous they've been to gamers. Not only have they consistently put out some of the most amazing (and popular) games of all time, but they created Steam, which is an absolutely fantastic medium for playing and purchasing games. They constantly have really great sales and bundled deals that I really don't seem to recall any other company matching before. They've given us fantastic upgrades and support for these games.

At no point was Valve ever required to provide any expansions for TF2, but I imagine they did because 1) they've always been really good to their fans and 2) based on the staying power of games like CS and TFC, they probably realized that offering small enhancements from time to time would probably sustain sales as well as the game's appeal to long-time players.

Furthermore, they were never required to give us any new content for L4D, but they did. Not to mention all the tweaking that was done as an effort to balance out VS play to the maximum degree. And they're STILL giving us new content for it.

This whole situation is the prime example of "Give 'em a finger and they'll take the whole hand", except it really ought to be amplified to say that Valve gave us the whole hand, and people want to take the whole damn arm.

Can you really, truly, honestly, and sensibly deny that that is exactly the case with the boycotters?

I certainly hope not, but if so, I suppose naivety and shortsightedness are some things people actually ARE entitled to.

[The Damned]

I was almost about to "tl;dr" that, but I did read it, and I must say bravo, BGC, bravo.

People are demanding a lot from the series, and that it's a very young one that still has a lot of room to grow into. We haven't really seen what we can expect from it, content-wise or other. So I can't really understand why people are so insistent on getting more from it.

[JCvgluvr]

And I reiterate that you are missing the point entirely.

Well, not entirely. After all, I did just admit to changing sides on the boycotting issue.

They cost more to make now and require more people. And now after you have acknowledged this, does it not strike you as senseless that people are demanding it as either a free/cheap expansion?

Well, for a long time, I was in agreement with those people, so no, it doesn't strike me as senseless. Selfish? Perhaps, but I can understand how they feel.

The demographic is completely and entirely irrelevant.

That's rather harsh, don't you think? Surely the demographic plays some part, whether large or small?

Look at the differences between 1 and 2 (of either game). The gameplay is more or less exactly the same, only in 2 there are some new abilities, new levels, new enemies and characters. Does this sound familiar?

While your point seems logical at first glance, there's something worth contemplating. A person's first playthru of Metroid Prime 1 and/or 2 would most likely last longer than a person's first playthru of L4D, would it not? There is much more variety in Metroid Prime's gameplay than in L4D's gameplay, is there not? Fresh out of the box, a person seemingly reaps more rewards in both money and time spent with Metroid Prime 1/2 than with L4D. Do you see what I mean?

And the whole "but BGC, L4D is an online game, that's totally different" is not now, or not ever going to be a valid or relevant point in this discussion. A game is a game.

What makes you so quick to write off that aspect of the conversation?

The whole fickleness of gamers nowadays is part of the core reason for my disgust. Especially concerning a company like Valve. I mean, out of every game producing company, compare Valve to any other and I don't believe anyone in their right and fair mind can deny just how generous they've been to gamers. Not only have they consistently put out some of the most amazing (and popular) games of all time, but they created Steam, which is an absolutely fantastic medium for playing and purchasing games. They constantly have really great sales and bundled deals that I really don't seem to recall any other company matching before. They've given us fantastic upgrades and support for these games.

At no point was Valve ever required to provide any expansions for TF2, but I imagine they did because 1) they've always been really good to their fans and 2) based on the staying power of games like CS and TFC, they probably realized that offering small enhancements from time to time would probably sustain sales as well as the game's appeal to long-time players.

Furthermore, they were never required to give us any new content for L4D, but they did. Not to mention all the tweaking that was done as an effort to balance out VS play to the maximum degree. And they're STILL giving us new content for it.

This whole situation is the prime example of "Give 'em a finger and they'll take the whole hand", except it really ought to be amplified to say that Valve gave us the whole hand, and people want to take the whole damn arm.

I don't really have anything to say agaisnt this. It's all true, as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I think this generation of people in general suffer from this mentality, not just gamers.

Can you really, truly, honestly, and sensibly deny that that is exactly the case with the boycotters?

I certainly hope not, but if so, I suppose naivety and shortsightedness are some things people actually ARE entitled to.

While I don't deny it, I feel that you might be writing off their argument too swiftly. It might deserve a second look.