Heroes of Newerth

[zircon]

Really? I don't see that in the patch notes anywhere. Even if that is the case, they have like 80 hp anyway.

[Capa Langley]

Pharaoh's priority is to trap the range heroes. And his hooking is more similar to Devourer's, only the opposite where he moves to his target. Cast Hellfire only AFTER the hook. You'd only waste damage if you cast it before running in. Though I can agree he would probably need a babysitter early and late game.

Also, mummies can't be walked through anymore. Probably was intended that way. If Pharaoh is the one losing the trap battle then he can kill a mummy and try to run away. The mummies also work great at lane blocking or even that little ramp from the jungle where the other team likes to gank from.

I think the best thing about Pharaoh is his LOLEYEROCKET. He can basically watch an area on the map by constantly casting on that spot. Did I mention that spell has a 99999 range?

[zircon]

Yes but Scout or Keeper can illuminate an area too. Pharaoh has to use his ulti to get in, so he's not even good at blocking and trapping. Why not Behemoth with Port Key? Fissure will stun at range. Magmus can run up and stun, and people will want to run from him very badly. There are many other heroes with similar abilities, but are better overall. Pharaoh's mummies can be killed even if you don't walk through them, and his damage/stun from hellfire is pretty weak all things considered.

[Tensei]

Did some reading up about Pharaoh. Actually I think he should be alright with laning due to his decent strength gain and the nuke which he can use to last-hit/harass (though not too much because of his low mana-pool).

As it is now, in midgame, the ult into mummies into hellfire chain should be able to take out most heroes in 1v1. The low mana pool shouldn't really be an issue once you've farmed up your bottle and you're running ganking and refilling it with runes.

Another interesting use for his nuke seems to be long-distance lane pushing, i.e. targeting creep waves without being anywhere near them. The wall of mummies can probably be used as an escape mechanism as well, by blocking off a chokepoint with it then hitting one mummy to get out of it (it actually takes three hits to take down a mummy for everyone but the pharaoh).

Hellfire seems to do damage to based on how many targets there are around (similar to moonqueen's ult?), so it can do up to 1120 damage on level 4 to a single target.

I should try him out some time, he seems interesting.

[eternal Zero]

Zircon. Find a competitive guide to Clockwerk. This will illuminate his power much more than I ever could. As an anti-initiator, he can hook himself to the enemy Behemoth/Tempest before they immune up and blink in as his team follows and win team fights. Also I recommend watching some replays but that might be asking a bit much since not everyone watches pro DotA, haha.

[Tensei]

eternalZero, I have friended your smurf account but I don't know what your main account is. I'd definitely be interested in playing with you sometime, since I'm still looking to improve.

Anyway, to everyone concerned, sorry about acting like a bit of a dick in our game earlier. I understand it's annoying when you're new to the game and you get killed over and over again, but you have to remember my connection is often terrible (2 second response times for my hero sometimes), so in times when my connection is actually good I really want to make the most of it, and being told to 'go easy on us and stop runewhoring' etc. can be very frustrating in turn, given that it's relatively rare that I can play unhindered.

That said, I do think it can be beneficial to play against someone more experienced as long as you try to find out why they're exactly doing that well (I've been there myself in my matches against c3lly and donut). Sure, I can hold back and just keep on last-hitting instead of constantly harassing you with every nuke I have because you're low on health and far away from your tower, but that's not something that would happen in a 'real' game.

And yes, I guess I can stop runewhoring, but you could also just get a bottle yourself and counter-runewhore or try to ambush me while I'm out of position.

[eternal Zero]

eternalZero, I have friended your smurf account but I don't know what your main account is. I'd definitely be interested in playing with you sometime, since I'm still looking to improve.

Main: antigrav

Alt: eternalzero

Alt I'm starting to use more: ZeroEdition

And like I said. I don't idle ingame much so if you want to play me just find me on AIM. Chances are I will say yes.

[eternal Zero]

You guys misunderstand. Even if I go hot early with any character some just can't win games...Slither for example...haha

[Tensei]

For the record, I would have done a lot better that game if I hadn't gotten a hero I had never played before.

[eternal Zero]

For the record, I would have done a lot better that game if I hadn't gotten a hero I had never played before.

If you had gotten it sooner I play a solid Valkyrie so I could have done that.

[Tensei]

Well I got it traded at the very last moment because SOMEBODY had to play Armadon no matter what.

[relyanCe]

Zero is permabanned from playing Madman

[eternal Zero]

Zero is permabanned from playing Madman

Don't be stingy!

[Tensei]

And so the "... is banned from playing ..."-jokes started all over again!

[relyanCe]

Dont blame me i just got here

[zircon]

I just played a match with Puppet Master where I dominated hard. However, it didn't really seem to be due to any of his abilities, though once his damage ramps up, his splash becomes insane (I could literally kill an entire creep wave endgame with ONE attack.) His "disables" are OK, and while the puppet is useful earlier, I just didn't seem to use it much later, as people could escape it quite easily. Early on though the abilities seem to be useful, for example hold -> puppet, or getting in some harass shots after using the dance skill. His best trait, I suppose, is that he pretty much NEVER needs mana allowing him to focus entirely on damage (his splash passive also improves base damage in and of itself.)

So, maybe not garbage.. C, B at best. You can do lots of damage with him, but Jeraziah can do periodic splash damage too. And Legionnaire. And Moon Queen.

[BardicKnowledge]

For DotA players making the transition to HoN, one BIG change:

Orb effects mostly stack. Anything called an "exclusive modifier" stacks, but only one of each type. You can now have lifesteal, Sange&Yasha's cripple, manaburn, bash, and chain lightning on the same character, and they will ALL trigger.

There are two items and some hero abilities that will stack with everything above but not with each other, here's the list:

Attack Modifiers

Frostwolf's Skull (grants Frost Attack)

Shield Breaker (reduces target's armor by 6)

Slither's Toxicity

BooBoo's Tangle Claw

Accursed's Sear

Magmus' Volcanic Touch

Source: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=2044

[Tensei]

My biggest issue with puppet master is that none of his attacks is a 'true' disable. Enemies can still cast spells with the hold on them, and puppet show is more like a silence than a disable. His ult does amazing damage, and I've gotten a lot of kills that way, but you have to remember it has a huge cooldown and it only works on one target basically.

Whiplash is pretty great, though, and I guess it's possible to play puppet master like a DPS carry.

[Clefairy]

The way I look at it, all stuns are disables. But not all disables are stuns.

And yes, while Puppet Master technically doesn't have a spell that prevents the enemy from doing anything, you get a lot of utility in return. Hold is a snare with snapback; if your positioning is favorable, you can use the new tablet of command with that. Crazy is a silence but also a mind control; it's tricky to pull off, but the extra damage you get by forcing an enemy to hit one of his allies can be a table-turner.

Also, forcing them to attack their own puppet, possibly even killing them that way is hilarious and causes them to rage in chat. Moments like that are the validation I need to avoid despair and subsequent uninstallation.

EDIT: I hate repeating myself, but I suppose this bears repeating.

I know it seems like I take this whole thing very seriously, but it isn't like that. I'm clinically depressed; overwhelming feelings of failure are just part of my daily life. This game, its death mechanism in particular, really doesn't help at times. That's a large part of why I act as I do, and I'm sorry to anyone who's annoyed by that.

[Arek the Absolute]

For DotA players making the transition to HoN, one BIG change:

Orb effects mostly stack. Anything called an "exclusive modifier" stacks, but only one of each type. You can now have lifesteal, Sange&Yasha's cripple, manaburn, bash, and chain lightning on the same character, and they will ALL trigger.

There are two items and some hero abilities that will stack with everything above but not with each other, here's the list:

Attack Modifiers

Frostwolf's Skull (grants Frost Attack)

Shield Breaker (reduces target's armor by 6)

Slither's Toxicity

BooBoo's Tangle Claw

Accursed's Sear

Magmus' Volcanic Touch

Source: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=2044

lol what

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[Tensei]

Yeah I already knew about most of the orb effects stacking, but it's nice to have an exact list with the ones that DON'T stack. Dark Lady with frostwolf skull = mass slow and silence.

[relyanCe]

In the aforementioned game where Zirc dominated as Puppet, I played Dark Lady and matched him for kills (i had 2 more deaths though).

I dunno if she's been mentioned in the thread before, but I feel she is a really powerful hero if played and itemed right. That and she was a completely fresh experience for me, who just joined this from DotA. My first build was steamboots, helm of black legion, whispering helm, and frostwolf skull. While frostwolf is good, I only got it by accident and probably won't get it on her again. I think the newerth equivalent of Diffusal Blade (idk what it is) along with stun hammer and lightning hammer would be a much better damage build as her active stun isn't very potent. If you could keep your target in one spot long enough to get 6 seconds of Dark Blades out on them, she could shred pretty much anything.

[zircon]

Everyone seems to think TDL is crappy. I think it's because she relies on all active skills, her ult isn't that great, and she needs a lot of levelling/farming to get good. But the fact that she effectively can turn her normal attack into a big AOE is crazy, especially if you have proc/silence effects. It probably helped that we had Glacius too to help with your mana.

BTW, I take back what I said about Pharaoh. Just played a *balanced* 3v3 game and dominated with him. His abilities are far better than I thought.

[eternal Zero]

The Dark Lady is comparable to Chronos in how limited her use is. She's solid when farmed but does crap early game. Though unlike Chronos solid teamwork and communication can prevent her ult from being super useful. I can only recount one time where she has been a factor in my losing a scrim.

Edit: Also all bash effects share the same cooldown so you can't permabash for all you DotA folk. Another reason why Chronos isn't so viable anymore.

And to the orb stacking this is why Magina is pretty good as a hard carry when farmed now instead of his usual super tank build. With Satanic and his attack speed he can have nearly infinite effective hp until he's gotta run away.

[relyanCe]

The Dark Lady is comparable to Chronos in how limited her use is. She's solid when farmed but does crap early game. Though unlike Chronos solid teamwork and communication can prevent her ult from being super useful. I can only recount one time where she has been a factor in my losing a scrim.

Edit: Also all bash effects share the same cooldown so you can't permabash for all you DotA folk. Another reason why Chronos isn't so viable anymore.

And to the orb stacking this is why Magina is pretty good as a hard carry when farmed now instead of his usual super tank build. With Satanic and his attack speed he can have nearly infinite effective hp until he's gotta run away.

Most of the kills I got were early-mid game o.O

And yeah, I can attest to Magebane's orbstack carry-potential. Once he's farmed he's nigh-invincible.