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Heroes of Newerth


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I have to agree on the basis that every time I see him played, his team wins. Still, I don't really understand why he's so good, since on paper his abilities don't look that impressive.

not impressive?

-At will speed-buff invisibility that damages anything it touches (throwback to Nerubian Weaver from DotA)

-A somewhat odd but immensely practical aoe stun

-2.2x Crit for God's sakes

-Absurd movement/atk speed buff for HALF A MINUTE as an ultimate (55 cd)

put this in the hands of someone who knows how to play and gear agi and he will win pretty much every game. I've beaten him a few times in pub, but usually he's High-Octane Pwnage.

That game we played where i raped with him? First play. That's how practical he is!

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not impressive?

-At will speed-buff invisibility that damages anything it touches(throwback to Nerubian Weaver from DotA)

This is cool, but NH has permanent Stealth, Scout has Vanish -> bonus backstab damage, etc.

-A somewhat odd but immensely practical aoe stun

Other characters have damaging AOE stuns.

-2.2x Crit for God's sakes

Other AGI heroes have crits.

-Absurd movement/atk speed buff for HALF A MINUTE as an ultimate (55 cd)

War Beast and Blacksmith can buff similarly...

So that's why I say it's not that impressive on paper. I guess the reason he's so good is that while those abilities are nothing special in and of themselves, it's the fact that they're all on ONE guy.

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Sigh, Zircon. You have much to learn. :mrgreen:

This is cool, but NH has permanent Stealth, Scout has Vanish -> bonus backstab damage, etc.

Stealth is not the benefit. It is always obvious where he will be running because you only get 4 seconds of it. It is lack of being able to be targetted as well as lots of damage. Backstab damage does not compare because 1. Scout is a worthless hero that will never ever see play outside of noob stomping and 2. That's only to a single target whereas Madman's can give him easy farm and harass an entire team for good damage.

Other characters have damaging AOE stuns.

That are also coupled with a max movespeed invis to allow for great positioning? Also one that doesn't compromise his position into the middle of the enemy team?

Other AGI heroes have crits.

Name another hero who has both a natural crit chance as well as a built in way to boost his attack speed to high levels. See how they stack up.

War Beast and Blacksmith can buff similarly...

Did you really just try and justify Blacksmith? No. The numbers simply do not compare.

Also War Beast only gets it for so long then has a long cool down of nothing. Madman still gets his max movespeed for 4 seconds with only 2 seconds of cooldown in between. Also it only has about 20 seconds of cool so it's still superior.

So that's why I say it's not that impressive on paper. I guess the reason he's so good is that while those abilities are nothing special in and of themselves, it's the fact that they're all on ONE guy.

While you're only partially (but not really because each individual spell is still better than the counterparts you mentioned even alone) correct about the moves being "nothing special" it is definitely the fact that S2 was dumb enough to put them all onto a single hero.

The only hero really worth the time they spent designing is probably Electrician. Definitely the only new hero that would be worth putting back into DotA.

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I don't know, I think Nymphora is quite good as well. Puppet Master could use tweaks but he's a great concept and not a garbage-tier hero like I thought he was (potentially amazing farming.) Malilken also seems solid.

And hey, I may be pretty new to the game but I'm getting to be beastly :P

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I think the biggest problem with madman is that he's similar to arachna, in the sense that he's supposed to play as a carry (though he scales even better than arachna in lategame), but he really has no trouble at all being effective in early and midgame as well (especially if you compare him to, say, Chronos).

The combination of the speedboost/invisibility and AoE stun gives him both a great way to escape and to initiate early ganks. The only real drawback for him is his low mana pool, which is why he pairs up so well with glacius.

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Kraken is now Garbage tier. Sorry but this guy has just no redeeming qualities. He plays like an INT char, but has the gains of a STR char... making him entirely useless. Yeah, whirlpool shennanigans, but besides that he's garbage. I'd also like to upgrade Glacius to A. He's pretty outstanding as a babysitter and has massive lane control.

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Kraken is now Garbage tier. Sorry but this guy has just no redeeming qualities. He plays like an INT char, but has the gains of a STR char... making him entirely useless. Yeah, whirlpool shennanigans, but besides that he's garbage. I'd also like to upgrade Glacius to A. He's pretty outstanding as a babysitter and has massive lane control.

is that all because of the game we played earlier?

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Yeah, that game earlier pretty much proved how crappy Kraken is; even with all the great items Zircon gave him, he still couldn't do much.

Also, I forget who was playing Arachna in the other game earlier, but sorry if I annoyed you. I'm used to playing pub games where everything has to be called out to them because they fail at paying attention, so I tend to just blurt out "GTFO" if I see people moving around you. Also, I honestly thought you were just not moving, didn't catch the stun, so again, sorry.

I like Single Draft best; yeah, you have a chance of getting the super amazing heroes, but odds are you'll GET GOD-DAMN ARMADON OVER AND OVER AGAIN. >:(

Or at least a selection of decent heroes that will do ok, and everyone has a fun time learning how to play something new.

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btw, Zephyr is at least A-tier.

He carries so well! :D

In the end I had like 10 kills, 3 deaths and almost 500 creep kills with what's essentially an INT-tank.

btw, for some reason I didn't really catch the enemy team's hero line-up at the start, so I thought we were royally screwed once I saw Defiler, Arachna AND Swiftblade.

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I think SD is the way to go after all. Personally in AP I either pick a hero I've been playing in practice mode and want some hands-on experience with, or a hero that I think will complement the team. Seems like I'm in the minority with that, though, since many people will just pick what they think is the 'best' hero (lolarachna).

SD at least somewhat forces you to think over your choice and pick something that would benefit your team.

Also, Armadon is a tank more than anything else. You don't necessarily need a tank for a balanced team, and even then, there are lots of heroes who can tank and carry way better than him (cough zephyr cough).

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Also, Armadon is a tank more than anything else. You don't necessarily need a tank for a balanced team, and even then, there are lots of heroes who can tank and carry way better than him (cough zephyr cough).

You should investigate Armadon more :( Especially his farming abilities, support abilities, initiator role and post-runed axe danger.

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