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Ban backdooring imo.

Also I played a pretty mean pestilence that game! He needs to be at least A-tier!

I maintain that if the developers don't want us backdooring, they'll code around it. Until then it remains a viable tactic -- especially useful to turn around what can seem like a defeat.

In any case, Tensei's pest is getting really scary lategame -- pest is an amazing carry.

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New patch is out!

Most notable for me is the addition of Pandamonium, an awesome, much needed ganker/DPS strength carry (the only other two I can think of that fill that role are Pestilence and maybe Predator), major buffs/reworks for Magebane and Dark Lady, as well as the buff to Behemoth's heart.

Pandamonium is tons of fun to play, he has two skills that mess with the positioning of the enemy, an armor reducing slow and an AoE stun, as well as a channeled, disabling ult (very similar to Devourer and Succubus), making him a great ganker. Both his ult and his primary 'combo' attack do damage based on his auto-attack damage with a % increase, which makes him scale very well into lategame (his ult on level 3 deals 4 hits which do auto-attack damage +100%, this could easily be 4 x 600 depending on the armor reduction and items you have). Both the new behemoth's heart and the new riftshards work amazingly well on him.

The thing that makes this hero the most fun to play is the (un-forced) synergy between all his skills. It's amazing fun to open with flick, reducing their armor and throwing them closer towards your tower/team, follow up with cannonball for a stun, wail on them with auto-attacks until the stun wears off, combo with flurry so they get pushed farther into your tower/team, and finish it up with face smash. Barely anyone should survive that in early/midgame.

His main drawback, or rather balancing factor, is that he's got an absolutely pathetic mana pool and you shouldn't count on pulling off the aforementioned combo more than once without needing a refill at the fountain. Bottle/Mana Battery are pretty much core items on this guy, but he does synergize well with Glacius.

Edit: Messed around with the Dark Lady a bit, she seems at least 'decent' now, rather than crap tier. Her stats have been buffed, which gives her a much better mana pool and makes her an alright ganker in midgame. The damage+ silence+ attack speed buff you get from dark blades+ blink is very good for some quick burst damage. Her slow/nuke is very cheap as well. Once you get a runed axe (which should probably be a core item on her, it gives mana regen and farming ability), you can basically one-shot creep waves with dark blades/blink, which makes her a surprisingly good farmer (like, on-par with zephyr + mock).

Lategame she's nothing to scoff at: if you build her for attack speed and damage, it shouldn't be too hard to get her up to 500 damage per auto-attack with dark blades active. Coupled with her insane attack speed from blinking, she's definitely a force to be reckoned with.

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Magebane is now even harder to gank due to the effect his aura has on spells. He can now actually help out in team battles a lot more (by providing magic armor with his blink, and inhibiting spellcasters). He's also a lot stronger in a lane against nukers because they'll have to think twice about using spells to harass him. Still not really a top pick but definitely more useful than before.

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New Dark Lady is definitely awesome. I'll have to play more to decide how I really feel about her, but once she gets Runed Axe she becomes an amazing farmer later on - her blades/charge combo will basically 1-shot an ENTIRE creep wave, and with Insanitarius she can kill heroes easily. I had very few mana problems compared to before, mainly thanks to Tainted Soul being dirt cheap. Speaking of, she's better early on too since she can almost spam Tainted whenever the CD is up, do some harassing damage, slowing (for ganks) and just generally be a pest.

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I vote we boot Saatana from the clan. In a recent match, he ignored doing anything to help the team (eg. farming a Nullfire Blade to dispel Jeraziah as Andromeda), instead farming a Wingbow, which took him the entire game. Furthermore, he bitched at me constantly despite me playing a pretty good Accursed. Players like this shouldn't be given the privilege of playing with us.

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Quick notes:

Pandamonium: MEH. Seriously. He's too slow and too single target oriented.

Dark Lady: Good changes. Not good enough yet.

Magebane: He was already great with a hard early game. Now his early game is easier? Kthx I'll win every time nao! (Not really but he's definitely great)

New Int Blade: Awesome.

New Heart: Probably too good. But Awesome.

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I think I'm the only one who doesn't like the new heart.

I don't like how it forces differences between types of heroes. I'd rather have it be a toggle, like Steamboots. Heroes like Zephyr (agi) and Defiler (int) would much rather have the strength buff of regen than their own, and strength heroes like Predator and Pestilence would much rather have the agility buff of damage.

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I think the reason they did that was the make the hero types more unique. Didn't you think it was kind of silly that Zephyr, an AGI, could tank better than just about any other character?

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That's like saying a hero with low innate DPS won't do well with Nullfire blade because they don't attack fast enough and they should change it to tailor every heroes needs. Items have always favored certain heroes so what's wrong with more explicit differentiation as opposed to the implicit you have seen since day one?

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No, I thought it was unique, just like how some strength heroes are some of the best nukers in the game.

I don't know, I think that's a silly way of doing things. A STR hero shouldn't be focused on nuking, and an INT hero shouldn't be focused on tanking. If you want to make a nuker with survivability, put him in INT and give him high base str/armor and STR gain... like Blacksmith.

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That's like saying a hero with low innate DPS won't do well with Nullfire blade because they don't attack fast enough and they should change it to tailor every heroes needs. Items have always favored certain heroes so what's wrong with more explicit differentiation as opposed to the implicit you have seen since day one?

No, what I'm saying is that they're *trying* to tailor it to everyone's needs, and thus making it more restricting in other circumstances.

And zircon, I doubt you'd play a very good Behemoth if you think that Strength heroes absolutely should not focus on nuking.

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I don't exactly consider Behemoth a "nuker". When I think nuker, I think someone that does burst damage at range. Behemoth gets in your face and does AOE stuns/damage. I don't think he plays like any other nuker.

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I vote we boot Saatana from the clan. In a recent match, he ignored doing anything to help the team (eg. farming a Nullfire Blade to dispel Jeraziah as Andromeda), instead farming a Wingbow, which took him the entire game. Furthermore, he bitched at me constantly despite me playing a pretty good Accursed. Players like this shouldn't be given the privilege of playing with us.

I'd agree with the general sentiment that less bitching at other players would be good. However, unless Saatana (what's his forum name anyway?) makes a regular habit of pissing multiple people off, I can't agree with a decision to boot him.

Look at it this way: if DarkeSword banned everyone that has ever pissed him off on the forums, there would only be like 10 people around. :P

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Yeah, I get what you're saying, but consider I've never made a complaint about anyone ever despite over 100 games with OCR guys. That's how bad THIS bitching was. I mean he was CONSTANTLY complaining about and insulting me for absolutely no good reason.

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I have to agree with zircon on Saatanas being a dick ingame, with no understanding of teamplay. He was on our side in that game where we lost to the backdooring scout and he'd spend most of the time solo pushing a lane as swiftblade, and subsequently getting ganked. And he'd of course give everyone sass who told him to stop soloing etc.

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I have to agree with zircon on Saatanas being a dick ingame, with no understanding of teamplay. He was on our side in that game where we lost to the backdooring scout and he'd spend most of the time solo pushing a lane as swiftblade, and subsequently getting ganked. And he'd of course give everyone sass who told him to stop soloing etc.

I agree and Celly would agree if he was still in clan :tomatoface:

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I have yet to play Panda for myself but he's still very "meh" to me. Maybe it's because the guys who were playing him weren't so great but the main thrust of it is that he is a single target killer. This won't help in team fights. This won't have him win games. He's a different spin on Devourer the way I see it. Long term disables but slightly different ways of getting the enemy close enough to do them. Decent ganker or tank but definitely cannot and will not carry a game at the competitive level. We still need Admiral ported into this game if you ask me. His role of melee carry who does not need babysitting and can solo is still quite lacking.

As for Saatana. If this becomes a regular thing then sure I say kick him. But if it was only that match then I can abide by it though he was really being fucking annoying. I wasn't quite raging but I was definitely using a stern tone by the time the game was over. If we had lost then I definitely would have raged him out because I don't think I've played a stronger Magebane in a long long time.

As for Behemoth's Heart. This item is still the original heart at its core. It still gives the massive HP and Str (MORE HP!). Sure you lost the +10 HP/sec regen (I think that was the number). But in the beginnings of HoN they added a 10% HP regen. Then they made it non-battle 10%. Now they've changed it again. All this while you still have the same heart. Old heroes still got it for the same reasons. Now you just have extra incentives along with your massive HP boost. Also it still lacks that super tank qualities that made heroes like Defiler so good that competitive games were getting boring because one of us had to play her (or we waste a ban on her) every game and she's not a fun time because she can be summed up as such: Damaging nuke. Dominating Ult. Farm till you get your core then push the team. End. Boring. I like these changes. They spice things up.

And I think I might as well have you guys add antigrav to the clan...while I dislike the tag I'd rather be playing on my primary account while being able to talk to you guys rather than being on my stupid alts.

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