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Heroes of Newerth

Capa Langley

By Capa Langley,
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Tensei Newbie

Tensei

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I'm only responding to those who are asking me for critique and for ways to improve. I know this does not apply to everyone.

Please tell me how to improve my game. (Though I haven't really played with you lately)

Edit: I'm really enjoying warbeast at the moment, my starcraft micro actually allows me to use the hounds for crazy stuff like blocking people from running away and killing neutrals while laning. He's definitely a powerhouse in the right hands, I completely underestimated him because I've only seen bad players play him so far.

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MaxFrost Newbie

MaxFrost

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warbeast is a lot of fun. I was pulling off some of the same stuff you were talking about, like heading people off while circling behind with the hounds. I do fairly well with wildsoul as well.

I still do not get why I fail so hard with _any_ agi hero. Both str and int heroes I play much better, but agi for some reason doesn't mesh well with me. Meh, oh well.

I need to stop being as agressive as I am. Agressive works in quake and deathmatch, not team fights.

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Vilecat Newbie

Vilecat

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I think the "stop playing" comment is just rude and uncalled for. Inhouse are great for me, since I learn far more about each hero and how to play what I pick better than if I constantly pugged. Also, friendly inhouse > pug when it comes to having a good time. Nerdraging during inhouse games is silly.

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eternal Zero Newbie

eternal Zero

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Tensei, I'll pay extra attention next time we're able to play.

As for War Beast I like him too but he's so easy to shut down by a properly composed team that he just isn't worth it. Especially with more heroes ignoring magic immunity like Panda he's way too easy to counter. He is one of my favorite heroes but he's just not all that great. He has his place on a pushing team but these generally don't cut it.

Edit: The two who asked me for invites they have been sent. Enjoy.

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Tensei Newbie

Tensei

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So, I noticed my favorite heroes as of late have mostly been STR carries, so I figured it would be cool if I compared three of them, Pestilence, Warbeast and Predator, because really, STR carries are AWESOME.

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Pestilence:

- Mediocre farming potential early on compared to the others, can't enter jungle as quickly.

- Very good lane presence, especially with the right babysitter.

- Amazing ganking potential, can solo gank as soon as he has his ult and fly is at a respectable level.

- Impale is a good mid to lategame farming tool. Great escape mechanisms due to flight and impale.

- Very, very hard to actually outcarry because of his armor reduction and bash -> amazing scaling into lategame, only heroes I can think of that could stand a chance with equal farm would be Chronos, Sandwraith and maybe Predator. Madman, Magebane, Scout, Valkyrie, you name it, they'll all fall to the hugeass damage output and the near-continuous stun.

- Hard counters invisible heroes with his ult.

- As far as STR carries go, relatively item-independent; even if you're not getting any farm at all you still have a scary AoE stun and a damage amp that other heroes can make use of.

- Potential to be built as an initiator with Shrunken Head and Portal Key.

- Dominant force in teambattles due to the huge AoE on Impale and the 'tagging' of targets with his ult.

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Predator:

- Good farming potential early on, can farm ancients and stronger neutrals way quicker than other heroes due to his lifesteal skill.

- Decent lane presence, hard to bully him out of a lane due to his lifesteal and stoneskin.

- Alright ganking potential. Can't really solo gank unless his damage is enough to take out the enemy in a few swipes (which isn't rare against agi/int heroes though). Only having one snare and no stun hurts him a lot here.

- Alright farming potential in midgame. No skills that specifically make him kill creepwaves quicker, but he can still tank stacked ancients with his lifesteal easily. Stoneskin works as an escape mechanism in a pinch but won't do you a lot of good if your enemies are actually faster than you.

- Can completely skip Shrunken Head due to stone skin, that's 3900 gold that could go into your Shieldbreaker/Insanitarius/Symbol of Rage/Daemonic Breastplate instead!

- Scales decently into lategame but ONLY against other STR carries/tanks. His lifesteal is his only real 'scalable' so it works better against high HP targets. He will have his face stomped by most agi heroes like Arachna, Swiftblade, Sandwraith if they've been keeping up in farm.

- Counters tanky heroes like legionnaire and armadon by chopping off 1/2 of their life in four swipes.

- Quite item-dependent for damage output and tankiness. Pred can't afford to be underfarmed.

- Jumping into a group of enemies and activating stone skin and ult is an alright way to initiate. You should be able to tank them for a bit because of your lifesteal and stone skin, and they can't really ignore you when you're ripping into their ranged int heroes. It's imperative your team attacks RIGHT AWAY as soon as you've jumped in or you're a sitting duck once your stone skin runs out.

- His ult helps greatly in teambattles but it often won't really go noticed. His leap and stoneskin allows him to quickly take out the squishy int disablers at the back.

- If you chase after Pebbles with Predator he will yell "GET TO ZA CHOPPAAAAAAAAAAH" I wish

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Warbeast:

- Amazing farming potential early game. Take out two neutral camps at a time, pull Neutrals while laning, solo Kongor at level 8, it's all possible with this hero.

- Weak lane presence. No nukes, no disables, but I guess he can do a bit of harassment with his hounds. His damage increasing passive gives him easy last hits as well. Not really applicable since he really should be neutraling IMO.

- Average Ganking potential. He can chase at 522 mspd and hit like a ton of bricks, but the lack of ANY disables/snares hurts. One of two heroes that Brutalizer is a core item on, IMO. (the other one is Scout). He can however towerdive like a pro. Max movement speed is nothing to scoff at in this case, and he can use the hounds to draw fire from the tower.

- Still amazing farming potential in midgame. Take out Kongor every time he's up, solo farm a lane while you let your hounds take out neutrals, use hounds as mobile wards to prevent getting ganked, and escape with your ult whenever necessary.

- Doesn't scale that well into lategame. He's got his high damage and uhhh... that's about it. The key to playing him properly is to establish a level/item-advantage over the other teams carries because of your superior farming capabilities, then fast-push and win the game before they have the chance to catch up.

- Somewhat counters heroes like MQ/Swiftblade, ie ones that rely on a lack of creeps around the hero to actually land their ults. Just summon your hounds to act as damage sponges and run away at 522 mspd (or pwn their faces).

- Extremely dependent on items. Abyssal Skull, Brutalizer, Enhanced Marchers and Shrunken Head is my bare bones build on him. Fortunately this isn't THAT hard to farm up with him, I usually manage to get all this by the 40 minute mark.

- Potential to work as a fast pusher in a team that's geared towards this. Hounds can tear down a tower pretty quickly.

- Good in teamfights. Provided you have Shrunken head before the majority of the teamfights happens you can even initiate by running in as a big scary magic-immune wolf that takes out their main disabler in 4 hits. War Cry globally adds 44 damage for you and all allied heroes so if you have any other DPS carries on your team they will love you for using this. Provided you have the micro to pull this off, you can use hounds as a counter-initiation tool (I'm sure Tempest loves to get harassed by invisible hounds just as he wants to portkey in and rape your entire team) and mobile wards.

Overall, there's no doubt Pestilence is the best of the three, but both others definitely have their merits. Not to mention they're great fun to play.

Some stuff that applies to all three of them:

- Some form of magic immunity helps amazingly. Shrunken head is a core item on both Warbeast and Pestilence because as a STR carry you will be in the middle of things dishing out the big damage.

- Insanitarius is, without a doubt, ALWAYS a good idea to get on all three of them, provided you know how to use it effectively. It gives +65 damage for only 2850 gold, that's the cheapest DPS in the game.

- In team battles, unless you have a dedicated initiator like behemoth on your team, you will be the one doing the initiation because you should have magic immunity and a relatively high amount of HP. Try to consider which enemy hero is the most dangerous at that point and focusfire him. This will usually be a squishy int hero with low HP and a lot of disables. Your shrunken head + dps should allow you to take him out before you have the chance to get chainstunned. He will probably be too busy trying to not die to you to start disabling other heroes on your team, who at this point should have ran in and started focusfiring the enemy carry.

Edit: Also, zero, could you give me some pointers on playing Hellbringer? I understand he's a very strong hero but I never really manage to do particularly well with him. I'm interested in learning him because I'd like to focus on support heroes/gankers rather than carries for now, since that's an area I'm not very comfortable in yet.

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Vilecat Newbie

Vilecat

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Predator is indeed very awesome. I love using him, even if he's got no aoe. With his ult and a lifesteal item he can take on almost everyone. Gotta agree that he'll feel truly useless if he's underfarmed.

I've enjoyed Demented Shaman and Voodoo Jester a lot during the last weekend. They never feel utterly useless at any point in the game, compared to some heroes.

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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Tensei, I would argue that Magebane also requires Brutalizer. He has essentially about +55 damage as a passive (the mana burn) plus a damaging ulti and aura, but no way to disable opponents. I'd say Predator can sometimes be a better pick than Pesti depending on the opposing team. Like you said, if they're going to be stacking high-armor/high-HP characters, Predator will have them for dinner. He's also harder to kill than either of them in a head-on fight because of his magic immunity and massive lifesteal. Obviously Pesti and Warbeast have better escapes, though.

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eternal Zero Newbie

eternal Zero

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Edit: Also, zero, could you give me some pointers on playing Hellbringer? I understand he's a very strong hero but I never really manage to do particularly well with him. I'm interested in learning him because I'd like to focus on support heroes/gankers rather than carries for now, since that's an area I'm not very comfortable in yet.

First of all, you're pretty spot on for the strength carries. As you have noticed War Beast is significantly overshadowed by the other two as all strength carries absolutely NEED magic immunity AND a means of closing the distance. Pestilence does this best as his he gets the closing distance part for free for the longest duration and a good player can work w/o the magic immunity up to a point. Predator gets the magic immunity for free as well as a great lifesteal mechanism and his leap is almost as good as max movespeed. He is actually a hero I'd consider getting Nullfire on even though it helps him in no way in terms of stats just because it keeps them right next to you for longer. (I still wouldn't.) War Beast just doesn't stack up. Max movespeed doesn't last nearly long enough. Even his jungling ability is near useless against a good team because they can stop you cold which negates the only thing that keeps him relevant: faster farm and levels.

As for Hellbringer: First and foremost if your APM isn't huge, get it there. Be comfortable staying in constant motion, harassing from full range, and nailing every creep. Your lane presence should be huge because even if you're getting harassed back you have an amazing method of healing. Learn all the heroes and their relative HP at levels 1 3 and 5. Know when your Death's Boil will kill them even when considering the healing of a eaten tree. Learn to micro your ult to at least land the initial fire breath while your Hellbringer lays on the healing/magic armor degen before it hits then casts Death Boil if possible if not just starts to attack then slow. You are not full support so don't play as such. You are as strong as a semi carry so keep your presence in the game as such. They should fear you and when your ult is up (and even when it isn't) you should be guaranteeing at least one and up to two enemy deaths by yourself each time fight.

I've enjoyed Demented Shaman and Voodoo Jester a lot during the last weekend. They never feel utterly useless at any point in the game, compared to some heroes.

Welcome to the wonders of good support playing. You should never feel useless and do recall that this feeling of power is with absolutely no farm outside of your boot selection and wards.

Tensei, I would argue that Magebane also requires Brutalizer. He has essentially about +55 damage as a passive (the mana burn) plus a damaging ulti and aura, but no way to disable opponents. I'd say Predator can sometimes be a better pick than Pesti depending on the opposing team. Like you said, if they're going to be stacking high-armor/high-HP characters, Predator will have them for dinner. He's also harder to kill than either of them in a head-on fight because of his magic immunity and massive lifesteal. Obviously Pesti and Warbeast have better escapes, though.

Magebanes get Brutalizer when they're pubstomping. In an actual game it's a waste of time and gives zero stats or regen which are of utmost importance to an agility carry. This is even more important for him because if he doesn't have mana to blink he is going to die.

Also the only time Pred is a better decision is when Pest is banned. There are ways around magic immunity when he doesn't have max movespeed and once it's passed you better hope your team turned the tide for you. It's not "in your face" enough for the role he should be playing.

Nullfire is better in every possible way for Magebane than Brutalizer -- guaranteed 80% slow is better than a chance for stun anyday. Not to mention the +24 agility.

While the stats are better as well as the slow is useful. The agility gives good damage and armor while the intelligence gives you the bare minimum mana to get more blinks but ultimately doesn't last. If your damage + 2 blinks isn't enough to kill someone then you're in trouble. Also the orb is wasted entirely. You're better off going for Runed Axe. Once you finish it the regen you have from Sustainer will keep you blinking around like a chicken with its head cut off and by the time you finish it you will have enough stat gain to easily clear waves with no problem. Then you go for the gold and get your Wingbow for huge stats/evade/damage and then Heart to finish things off nicely. Or if you're going for the old DotA pro build before Magina went into misuse it was Vanguard, Hood, Heart as you were the super tank to eliminate the enemy casters.

This has been another super lengthy post by Zero. This is how much I have been playing and studying this game. This is why I think I am a good player as well as a good ingame team leader. I daresay I could have had a higher GPA if not for this game.

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Tensei Newbie

Tensei

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GET ON MAH RHINO WOMAN!

I'm guessing one is STR, but what would the other be? AGI or INT?

Also I can't decide whether these pumpkins are made out of plastic or wax o_o

They're ports of the dota heroes Silencer and Spiritbreaker, so STR and AGI. They'll most likely have the same skills though it's possible a few of them have been changed up.

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eternal Zero Newbie

eternal Zero

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PSR is being rescaled, not reset. Stats are being reset. While I always welcome the stats reset I'd actually want my PSR reset rather than just scaled differently.

And btw guys, Spiritbreaker is Str and Silencer is Int. Most of you guys will enjoy Rhino cause he'll be a pubstar hero as well as a substandard strength carry. Silencer is a hard to play Int carry that I will definitely be playing a lot. Especially if they tried to fix his balance issues by giving him a buff or two.

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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Silencer seems like a no-brainer with the current state of the metagame right now. For example, we were playing against a fairly decent team in the game I mentioned in my previous post, yet because of our massive AOE barrage we completely dominated teamfights. Silencer just needs to hit that global silence as soon as he sees Behe or Tempest try to initiate, no?

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Vilecat Newbie

Vilecat

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Silencer seems like a no-brainer with the current state of the metagame right now. For example, we were playing against a fairly decent team in the game I mentioned in my previous post, yet because of our massive AOE barrage we completely dominated teamfights. Silencer just needs to hit that global silence as soon as he sees Behe or Tempest try to initiate, no?
That is, if his Dota abilities don't change at all.

I'm curious about Silencer too. Like many of you already know, I tend to prefer assist/support heroes to gankers, although I don't hate toying around with some of the carries.

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Battousai Newbie

Battousai

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After two days in a row of getting ABed to one team with 4 OCR on the other side, I realize that I need to seriously improve my game. I wander too much, I runewhore too much, and I pick electrician too much. While he is my favorite hero, his early game dominance only really works with a lane partner capable of taking advantage of his long disable.

I was hoping to get centaur but spiritbreaker was another of my favorite picks in dota pubs. His charge ability will be a nice counter to scouts and nighthounds and madmen (once you target someone with it [in dota] the guy charges at them and you retain sight of the target the whole time) not to mention it looks absolutely hilarious.

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