Heroes of Newerth

[zircon]

Sometimes the people in this game amaze me. I join a game with about half of the people speaking French. Immediately one of our players pick Scout, then another randoms Pebbles. The other team shortly picks Tempest, Pestilence and Demented Shaman. I pick Jeraziah because I feel like we need a solid counter to some of those heroes, and our "team" fills out with Swiftblade and Puppet Master. As the game begins, within the first 5 minutes the bottom lane gets killed by Pandamonium and Pestilence (2x stun.) Pebbles (my lanemate) bitches at me for "not healing him", when in fact I tried to save him but the AOE on Pesti's stun caught me (Pesti's stun is practically the same radius as Jera's heal, not to mention the heal has a LONG cast time.) From that point on he basically trashtalks me nonstop after I die once or twice because we're in a two melee lane vs. a serious dual-stun and both of us are mana-intensive characters. The game really didn't get much better; as you might imagine, Pestilence, Tempest and Shaman is pretty much gg against our brilliant team of Scout, Puppet, Pebbles, Jeraziah and Swiftblade, but my whole team doesn't stop trashing me until the very end, when I started intentionally feeding to spite them (then ragequitting.)

Some of the "amazing" plays we had include our Swiftblade repeatedly running in and spinning vs. Panda, who can flick him through his spin (which makes ME unable to heal him), Pebbles bitching that I didn't heal him when he ran in against 4 people (even though I did heal him, and he died anyway), etc.

Probably the worst game I've played yet in terms of the people involved.

[Vilecat]

French people play that game? I always end up with brazilians and such

Never met a French speaker.

[Tensei]

I have to say that I completely misjudged Nighthound. I always thought of him as basically an even crappier version of scout, but he plays completely differently, being more of a semi-carry/ganker, and becoming very useful once he's got his core items (Slash, Steamboots, Power Supply, Agi Shield).

Both his active skills are highly versatile. Smoke bomb can completely rape an enemy push, and in ganks will give the opponent the choice between fighting with slowed attack speed and a high miss chance, or running away and getting backstabbed several times in the process.

Blinkstrike is an excellent chasing tool and very spammable once you level it to 4. Combined with the high movement speed from Slash and later the slow from Smoke + Nullfire, it will ensure that the enemies won't get away.

With a power supply and the blinkstrike/smoke bomb combo I found myself actually harassing people out of my lane. This with a hero that I thought needed crazy babysitting!

The invis is a very nice escape mechanism, but that's it, really. I don't rely on it too much.

[Bahamut]

Sometimes the people in this game amaze me. I join a game with about half of the people speaking French. Immediately one of our players pick Scout, then another randoms Pebbles. The other team shortly picks Tempest, Pestilence and Demented Shaman. I pick Jeraziah because I feel like we need a solid counter to some of those heroes, and our "team" fills out with Swiftblade and Puppet Master. As the game begins, within the first 5 minutes the bottom lane gets killed by Pandamonium and Pestilence (2x stun.) Pebbles (my lanemate) bitches at me for "not healing him", when in fact I tried to save him but the AOE on Pesti's stun caught me (Pesti's stun is practically the same radius as Jera's heal, not to mention the heal has a LONG cast time.) From that point on he basically trashtalks me nonstop after I die once or twice because we're in a two melee lane vs. a serious dual-stun and both of us are mana-intensive characters. The game really didn't get much better; as you might imagine, Pestilence, Tempest and Shaman is pretty much gg against our brilliant team of Scout, Puppet, Pebbles, Jeraziah and Swiftblade, but my whole team doesn't stop trashing me until the very end, when I started intentionally feeding to spite them (then ragequitting.)

Some of the "amazing" plays we had include our Swiftblade repeatedly running in and spinning vs. Panda, who can flick him through his spin (which makes ME unable to heal him), Pebbles bitching that I didn't heal him when he ran in against 4 people (even though I did heal him, and he died anyway), etc.

Probably the worst game I've played yet in terms of the people involved.

Stuff like this is why I hate pubs. You get some of the lowest common denominator as far as gamers go.

[BardicKnowledge]

I have to say that I completely misjudged Nighthound. I always thought of him as basically an even crappier version of scout, but he plays completely differently, being more of a semi-carry/ganker, and becoming very useful once he's got his core items (Slash, Steamboots, Power Supply, Agi Shield).

He's much more useful than Scout, as smoke bomb really helps in teamfights. Backstab also scales quite well if you get Nullfire and (very late) Wingbow. As long as you don't become too confident with the invis and start feeding everywhere, he does pretty well.

[Tensei]

Speaking of pubs, yesterday I had a guy playing Voodoo Jester get mad at me (Pestilence) for stepping aside when I saw magmus charging up his ult and porting in, resulting in me being the only survivor on my team. There's a difference between being brave and being suicidal.

Patch 1.51.0 is live by the way. Some good balance fixes (buffs to Hag's ult and vindicator's DoT, nerfs to puppet, scout, panda and maliken) as well as a cool new AGI hero based on DotA's Razor. Finally another powerful AGI semi-carry for solo-mid position. Also lots of improvements to unit selection that should improve micro.

my Corrupted Disciple build/mini-guide:

Skills:

1. Electric Tide

2. Corrupted Conduit/Static Discharge

3. Electric Tide

4. Corrupted Conduit/Static Discharge

5. Electric Tide

6. Overload

7. Electric Tide

8. Corrupted Conduit/Static Discharge

9. Corrupted Conduit/Static Discharge

10. Static Discharge/Corrupted Conduit

11. Overload

12. Static Discharge/Corrupted Conduit

13. Static Discharge/Corrupted Conduit

14. Static Discharge/Corrupted Conduit

15. Stats

16. Overload

17-25. Stats

Justification/Explanation:

Skill build is quit flexible and dependent on the enemy line-up. Tide is always maxed first because of the burst damage + harassment potential. If you're in a mid lane against a ranged hero that relies on targeted nukes (TB, Plague Rider), leveling Static Discharge first will ensure that he'll be taking damage if he tries to nuke harass you. The increased movement speed helps for early ganks as well. Corrupted Conduit on the other hand should be gotten against melee heroes (Bloodhunter solo mid, most heroes in sidelanes), because they will have to get closer to the creeps, ensuring you can keep conduit on them for longer, or heroes with no targetable nukes (Valkyrie, Soulstealer, Pyro). Corrupted Conduit will help you get last hits in lane, so it should be gotten if you're getting outlaned because of last-hits, but not because of nuke harassment. Both skills are quite useful so it's mostly up to your own discretion in what order you level them.

Lanes: Disciple is squishy, can make good use of runes and bottle, and is a potent ganker, so he's probably best put in midlane, though I can see him working in sidelanes as well.

Item build:

Starts with: stat items, regen, possibly mana battery. Courier if nobody else will buy it for you.

- Bottle

- 2x Fortified Bracers OR Helm of the Black Legion

- Power Supply, depending on preference/line-up (Enemies are less likely to spam spells at you if you have Discharge)

- Shaman Headdress (optional/situational)

- Steamboots/Enhanced Marchers

- Thunderclaw

- Slash (optional)

- Frostfield Plate, Shrunken Head (order in which to get these is situational, get them both though)

- Charged Hammer

Luxury: Geometer's Bane, Wingbow, Behemoth's Heart, Frostwolf Skull

Justification/ explanation: Disciple is built as a tank, not as DPS. The reason for this is that with Corrupted Conduit and your Ult, your damage output will be very high for the majority of the game anyway, and so it's beneficial for you to stay alive as long as possible rather than stacking up damage and becoming a glass cannon.

Bottle is the first item you should farm up if you're playing mid. Good rune control and the quick regen you get from it will make it easy for you to gank once you have your ult. Power Supply and Mana Battery are situational items, get them if you feel you can make use of them.

HotBL is controversial; it gets criticized for not giving any damage output, and scaling poorly into lategame. However, with Disciple, the longer you can stay alive, the higher your damage output is, which makes HotBL a valid choice in certain situations. If the enemy team seems pre-disposed to push towers and end the game very quickly, HotBL should be gotten because it's a great tanking item early on, as you'll be getting in a lot of early teamfights, and you staying alive is crucial for dealing tons of damage.

In a more 'standard' game, 2x Fortified Bracers are cheaper and should be enough to give you early survivability. Headdress is obviously taken against a line-up that relies on heavy magic damage, but it's not a core item by any means as it delays your main items by a lot.

Steamboots vs E. Marchers, the eternal debate. I prefer steamboots, because they give you a higher AVERAGE speed now that E. Marchers has the increased CD on phasing. The damage and increased aspd isn't that useful compared to the amount of HP you get from +12 Strength. On the other hand, if the game is still focused on ganking rather than early pushes and team-battles, the unit-walking from Enhanced Marchers will help a ton in staying close to your enemy to hit him with your ult and conduit.

Thunderclaw is taken to improve your midgame farming and up your attack speed, which is IMO a more cost-efficient method of upping your DPS than through plain damage items like Shieldbreaker because your damage should be quite high from Conduit anyway.

I'm not entirely sure about getting Slash at this point. Your early-game tanking items will start getting obsolete at this point, so getting an item that only ups your DPS might seem like a bad idea, but the movement speed you gain from Slash will give you 451 MSPD when combined with steamboots and lvl 4 Discharge, which is enough to chase down most heroes and keep them in range of conduit+ult. Then again, the next item will give you great chasing as well.

At this point team battles WILL be happening, and you're going to need to be in the thick of it. Getting an INT item like Frostfield plate on an AGI hero seems very counter-intuitive, but remember that it gives you a huge boost to your survivability because of the armor, enough INT to spam all your active spells, and a slow aura + another AoE nuke, all of which will assist you in both ganks and teambattles. Get this item first if the enemy team is based on physical DPS or if for some reason teambattles aren't very frequent yet.

If on the other hand the enemy team is based around mass disables and stuns, Shrunken Head is the superior choice to get first. Being the huge damage dealer you are, you're a prime target to get taken down first with chain stuns, as your usefulness in teambattles is directly proportionate to how long you can stay alive. Both these items should be gotten, though realistically you'll usually only be able to farm up one of them.

Charged Hammer can almost be considered a luxury item. Don't count on farming it up in all but the longest matches. It will ensure that your auto-attack DPS will go through the roof because of your sick attack speed, and the chain lightning proc makes it easy to push down creep waves quickly.

If for some godforsaken reason the match goes on longer than sixty minutes, you can probably start looking at one of the luxury items. Wingbow is IMO the most valid choice to get first, as it gives you lots of attack speed, Damage and EHP from the armor and evasion. Geometer's is a logical follow-up to Slash. While it won't give you a lot of extra survivability, the images are good for pushing (and I think they'll proc the lightning from charged hammer as well?) and the stats increase is always nice. Behemoth's Heart is alright for survivability, but it doesn't do that much for you considering the price you pay for it. Frostwolf Skull allows you to chase down enemies even more easily and gives you a substantial increase to all stats.

What not to get: Lifesteal items like Abyssal Skull and Whispering Helm. Sure, your attack speed and damage are high enough to support it, but usually lifesteal items are only gotten to go toe to toe with other carries, which is an area Disciple should have NO trouble with at all, since he can drain 200 of their damage, as well as reduce their armor with his ult, being one of the best 1v1 heroes anyway. This makes lifesteal obsolete on him IMO. Items that purely up your agility or DPS are not that useful as well since survivability is a much bigger priority for most of the game, so Nullfire Blade, Savage Mace, etc. aren't really the best choices either.

[Vilecat]

I like posts like this, it's really helpful for me since I don't know which items I should get on most heroes but only the 2-3 I'm most confortable with. That kinda slows me on learning how to use every hero efficiently.

[Tensei]

I guess I could write some more on the heroes I'm familiar with, only takes about 10-20 minutes for me.

In fact, I think I'll do. Pharaoh Build/Miniguide:

Skills:

"Artillery Build"

1. Tormented Soul

2. Hellfire

3. Tormented Soul

4. Hellfire/Wall of Mummies (depending on preference/lane)

5. Tormented Soul

6. Wrath of the Pharaoh

7. Tormented Soul (maxed)

8. Wall of Mummies/Hellfire (depending on your lvl 4 choice)

9. Hellfire

10. Hellfire (maxed)

11. Wrath of the Pharaoh

12. Wall of Mummies

13. Wall of Mummies

14. Wall of Mummies

15. Stats

16. Wrath of the Pharaoh

17-25. Stats

"Standard Build"

1. Tormented Soul

2. Hellfire

3. Hellfire

4. Tormented Soul

5. Hellfire

6. Wrath of the Pharaoh

7. Hellfire

8. Tormented Soul

9. Tormented Soul

10. Wall of Mummies

11. Wrath of the Pharaoh

12-14. Wall of Mummies

15. Stats

16. Wrath of the Pharaoh

17-25. Stats

Justification/Explanation:

Choosing either of these builds is dependent on who you're laning against, as well as what lane you're in. If you're solo mid (unless it's against bloodhunter), or in a double melee lane against two ranged heroes, go for the artillery build, as it will allow you to score last hits and harass at the same time with a powerful eyerocket. Against melee heroes in a sidelane, maxing hellfire early is a cheaper and more damaging form of harassment since they will have to get in close for last hits, which is something they will regret as soon as you activate hellfire. Eyerocket/Tormented Soul is always gotten first as it allows for scouting and runewhoring.

Hellfire is possibly one of the most underestimated spells in terms of raw damage. Maxed out hellfire will deal no less than 1k magical damage to random targets in range, as well as constant mini-stuns, meaning that if you are chasing someone, you will stay caught up, and you will be doing ridiculous damage. Both of these skills make Pharaoh a RIDICULOUSLY strong laner as he can just stand back and take last hits while harassing. Hellfire will ensure that anyone foolish enough to try and get close to you will come to regret it as his HP starts dropping quickly. The ministuns themselves are what makes this spell border on overpowered as not only will it interrupt any channeling and homecoming stones, but it will constantly slow down people you're chasing.

Wall of Mummies can be taken in the artillery build early on if you feel you're going to gank a lot right after reaching level 6 (This situation is more likely if you're laning mid) because it will allow you to do the infamous ult+hellfire+wall combo, but if you need to rice up some more items inlane (which I prefer) it can be delayed until level 8. Wall of Mummies is another great multi-purpose spell that can be used to both trap people inside it, trap them indirectly by using the mummies to push them into your tower or allies, or blocking off enemies from running after your allies.

Finally, his ult is basically the reverse version of Devourer's hook (pulls you to them instead of them to you), except with a MUCH longer range, and a much faster projectile, making it a lot easier to land. It's still a quite a tricky skill to use because it will get interrupted by enemy creeps getting in the line of fire, but a Pharaoh that can properly land his hook is the bane of any farming carry. In teamfights it can be used to AoE stun and counter-initiate, specifically by stunning heroes like Pollywog, Trician, and Tempest (!) out of their channeling.

TL;DR If you're up against squishy ranged heroes, go for the artillery build. If you're up against tankier melee heroes, go for the normal build.

Lanes

A hero with such amazing versatility in his skillset as Pharaoh can basically go anywhere. Yes, he can solo mid even though he's melee; a competent Pharaoh can in fact destroy a lot of the 'conventional' mid heroes (His nuke has infinite range, Mid heroes tend to have low HP, you do the math). I consider almost any lane with Pharaoh in it an 'offensive' lane, preferably when paired up with a ranged hero with some kind of stun, as he'll be able to bully a lot of people out of his lane. In midgame, Pharaoh should attain rune control, and gank whenever his ult is not on CD. He's easily one of the most powerful early-midgame gankers and has no trouble soloing most of the current hero pool at that point in the game. You HAVE to make use of this timing window to give your team an advantage in kills because your effectiveness will start dropping as the match progresses.

Item Build

Starts with:

1x Runes of Blight, 1x Healing Potion, 1x Logger's Hatchet, 3x Minor Totem

- Bottle (if solo mid)

- Mana Battery (if sidelane)

- 2x Fortified Bracers

- Marchers

- Power Supply

- Bottle (if sidelane)

- Enhanced Marchers

- Shaman Headdress (get this like 90% of the time)

- Staff of the Master

Luxury: Behemoth's Heart, Frostfield Plate, Totem of Kuldra, Mock of Brilliance, WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY

Explanation/Justification

Now, all those awesome skills have one big drawback, being that they cost mana, and Pharaoh, being a strength hero, doesn't have a very high mana pool. For this reason, both power supply and bottle are core items on him, as you'll be roaming around the map looking for easy kills for most of the midgame, so rune control is vital. In a sidelane, go for a bit more survivability (not that his starting stats are that terrible, it just allows you to take a bit more punishment while going for the first blood) as well as a mana battery, though it can be gotten later if you're in a lane with few casters.

Once you have Marchers, Bottle, 2x Fortified Bracers and Power Supply, you are ready to go kick some ass, so getting those items is generally a good guideline to stop laning and start ganking fulltime.

Shaman Headdress seems weird, but if you think about it, you are going to be focusing on the squishier members of the enemy team in team battles and ganks (makes little sense to blow your ult and all your mana on a legionnaire). Squishy generally means either AGI or INT, and especially INT heroes tend to have powerful nukes. You can bet that if you ult+trap a Thunderbringer, he's going to throw everything he has at you. See where I'm going with this? Headdress will ensure you will deal more damage than the enemy once they're trapped within your wall of mummies, and it's the first step from ganker towards tank, which will be your role in the lategame. The only time you shouldn't get this is if the enemy team has less than two heroes that heavily rely on magic damage.

Staff of the Master is the cherry on top. It gives you health, mana, everything you need, as well as a sweet sweet boosted ult that allows you to cast it every 20 seconds and basically blink all over the map.

What not to get:

- HotBL. HotBL is a tanking item, and tanking isn't a role Pharaoh should assume in the earlygame, i.e. the only part of the game where HotBL is viable. To make use of HotBL it has to be rushed before 15 minutes, which for Pharaoh, will delay the ever important regen items like Bottle and Power supply, as well as Enhanced Marchers, which is the item that will aid him in chasing down people in early ganks.

- Ring of Sorcery. I believe Ring of Sorcery is an item for lazy/new players and a much more expensive alternative to bottle. Pharaoh can have way better rune control with Tormented Soul than other STR nukers like Pebbles and Pharaoh, so there's really no excuse to get this over Bottle.

- DPS items/farming items like Shieldbreaker, Runed Axe, Savage Mace, Riftshards. Pharaoh is not a DPS carry, in fact, he's not a carry at all. Almost all of his midgame power comes from his skills, rather than his auto-attack, which means it makes way more sense to focus on items that allow him to spam his skills and/or enhance his survivability.

[BardicKnowledge]

Assuming that Geo is luxury at best, I would skip Slash and get Nullfire instead. Nullfire's slow combined with your already high movespeed will destroy people 1v1 -- and it helps more with teamfights also.

The only downside is that it's more expensive and delays frostfield / charged hammer. Still something to consider though.

[bladiator]

New least favorite thing in the game: The teammates that just won't accept that the game is over and concede. Usually led on by someone invis hero on your team that continually steals kills and is well fed, a kill or two is enough for him to rally the troops and keep saying, "Come on! We will win now! Just push mid!"

Hello disconnect.

[eternal Zero]

Haven't been playing recently cause of lots of work (also Borderlands). Might decide to jump back into the swing of things soon.

[zircon]

I recently had a dominating match as Disciple where my item build was Fortified Bracer, E.Marchers, Bottle, Shaman's Headdress, Geometer's Bane and Nullfire Blade (not in that order.) I think it worked out very well. I farmed Bane first and maxed Static Discharge before my nuke, which actually gave me insane ganking ability early on and allowed me to dominate Thunderbringer in lane. Nullfire Blade later to assist me with chasing, ganks and Hellbringer. Toward the end of the game I was basically just running around at nearly max-movespeed, Nullfiring heroes and destroying them quickly (nuke -> ult -> link -> attack) then running around and pushing while the enemy team tried to catch up.

[Tensei]

I recently had a dominating match as Disciple where my item build was Fortified Bracer, E.Marchers, Bottle, Shaman's Headdress, Geometer's Bane and Nullfire Blade (not in that order.) I think it worked out very well. I farmed Bane first and maxed Static Discharge before my nuke, which actually gave me insane ganking ability early on and allowed me to dominate Thunderbringer in lane. Nullfire Blade later to assist me with chasing, ganks and Hellbringer. Toward the end of the game I was basically just running around at nearly max-movespeed, Nullfiring heroes and destroying them quickly (nuke -> ult -> link -> attack) then running around and pushing while the enemy team tried to catch up.

Yeah, I actually noticed he's a very strong counter vs Bloodhunter mid. In a game yesterday Leonidus was soloing mid with BH against Disciple and he gave away like seven kills before the laning phase ended. Thankfully my Pharaoh saved the day.

[relyanCe]

I recently had a dominating match as Disciple where my item build was Fortified Bracer, E.Marchers, Bottle, Shaman's Headdress, Geometer's Bane and Nullfire Blade (not in that order.) I think it worked out very well. I farmed Bane first and maxed Static Discharge before my nuke, which actually gave me insane ganking ability early on and allowed me to dominate Thunderbringer in lane. Nullfire Blade later to assist me with chasing, ganks and Hellbringer. Toward the end of the game I was basically just running around at nearly max-movespeed, Nullfiring heroes and destroying them quickly (nuke -> ult -> link -> attack) then running around and pushing while the enemy team tried to catch up.

I had a similar match against thunderbringer in mid lane, where i absolutely dominated him. He's a very strong counter to burst-fire target casters, less so against aoe casters. Be careful with geometers. don't get it if they have splash heroes, it won't help you. I find HotB -> E marchers -> Slash -> Nullfire to be a superb ganking setup, and have yet to actually see the need for frostfield.

[Tensei]

Eh, Frostfield gives you survivability and enough mana to spam your nuke constantly, nullfire does neither of those. HotBL scales terribly and won't exactly be enough protection later on.

[Battousai]

Ugh Pharaoh is so hard to deal with. That 1700 tore us apart with him. Not only did he kill our wards (how did he hit them, if they are magic immune and he is melee?) but he set up some of the meanest ganks (I go mid to set up a ward at top, get eyed, spirited, hellfired into oblivion) and even when it was something like 3 on 2 he destroyed us all.

[zircon]

Eh, Frostfield gives you survivability and enough mana to spam your nuke constantly, nullfire does neither of those. HotBL scales terribly and won't exactly be enough protection later on.

I never really ran into mana problems; Geometer's +10 Int seems like all you'd need, plus a bottle and your Bracer. I also never bothered with HotBL in the game where I dominated as Disciple, again because Bracer/Geometer's add sufficient strength and mobility. Those with Bottle and Headdress gave me excellent regen and staying power.

[relyanCe]

I find you don't really need to nukespam at all. You throw your ult on, move in while casting your nuke, link the carry, and start auto-ing while occasionally repositioning/keeping the carry linked to +200. The only time I could see frostfield is if the other team is pure physical and no one else has aoe initiation to take out creep waves.

[JadeAuto]

Do you all teach portly n00bs in friendly games, or is this a "learn on your own, then come play" kinda game?

[LuketheXjesse]

I'm playing, aren't I?

Anyhoo, I'm not sure if we have any more beta keys, so you might just have to wait until the final game comes out. :[

[JadeAuto]

I'm playing, aren't I?

Anyhoo, I'm not sure if we have any more beta keys, so you might just have to wait until the final game comes out. :[

Hehe, I was one of the first giving them away, I simply decided to uninstall and such since i couldn't get the hang of it. I'm willing to give it another shot now.

BTW: If anyone wants, I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 available keys to toss out. PM me for one.

[zircon]

Do you all teach portly n00bs in friendly games, or is this a "learn on your own, then come play" kinda game?

We teach, but it would be a good idea to also do some reading if you really want to play and not totally suck. Character guides on the HoN forums are ideal ("Premium Guides" section) or just ask us here. Read some guides or watch tutorials for HoN basics like runes, XP, denying etc. Won't take long but it's worth the effort. Also, it's really a lot better if you have a mic.

[JadeAuto]

Yeah, I've been reading up on it. I think it'll take me a bit to learn to last hit/deny. Almost seems too 'twitchy'.

[zircon]

It really isn't that hard. You just wait until the life bar is really low and THEN attack. You can also keep starting your animation by right clicking and then hitting "S" or "H" to stop it (but only doing so if you don't think you'll get the last hit.) The hardest part of last-hitting is learning the animations for your hero. Some heroes - like Corrupted Discipline or Magebane - attack very fast, with fast projectiles (or if melee, no projectile.) Others, like Nymphora or Pyromancer, are very slow so you have to really anticipate.

[LuketheXjesse]

With denying and stuff, you just have to get real used to each character's individual attack speed/range.