Heroes of Newerth

[zircon]

I still don't agree. You don't need Hood (Headdress) against every team, but Lifetube and certainly HotBL allow you to easily jungle indefinitely with no items. Your natural regen... doesn't. That being said, I'm curious now to try the buildup to Hood to see how that works for jungling (in theory you get nice regen from that too.)

[relyanCe]

the crux of glorify's build idea is that, in a game that looks like it will project into mid-late game, the 300 hp/20 extra points of damage reduction simply do not cover the costs of making the item. It sets you back too far from getting items that are integral to your team (barrier idol and blink). In a team game like HoN, if you aren't the carry, everything you do/build should be for the absolute best of your team.

Also, i find legionares stat gain to be completely fine on its own. don't really need the extra hp from hotbl. Better to just get heart if the game goes late and you need hp beyond your stat gain

[zircon]

2k gold for 300 HP, 20 extra points of reduction and +6 health seems reasonable. By my estimation if you're in "mid-lategame" you definitely have HotBL AND Boots AND portkey AND probably hood too. The 2k gold is not going to get you Behe heart which costs over 5k. 3k is a massive farming gap to cover. Even if we disagree on this item though, we can ALL agree that people who buy 2-3 HotBLs are dumb

[BardicKnowledge]

Zircon, you haven't really made a good case for Tensei/my main point against HotBL in the first place -- that it sucks for anyone who isn't Legion (or MAYBE Zephyr). Why would you ever take HotBL over Stout Shield + 2 regen rings --> hood?

Assuming we're jungling as one of those two, you can START with shield + one regen, and get Logger's Axe less than two minutes into a game.

[zircon]

What do you mean by Regen rings? Fort bracers..? That's 3 item slots being taken up when you could just have one. It adds significant HP and EHP - that's my argument for

By the way, here is why Rampage is awesome. People that play him by charging first are not necessarily playing him right. You should start with a normal walkup (E.Marchers) which is plenty fast, then, at close range, Ult (~1.5s stun), attack once or twice (might proc a stun), Charge (~2.5s stun) and then more attacks. That's quite a bit of stunning.

[Battousai]

Hood can also be built from the lifetube (replacing the two regen things) so the next time you think about buying that beast heart, pick up the helm of the victim instead and with a piece of magic armor you have your headdress.

Not to mention that hood can be upgraded to pipe (that is, barrier idol) with another 1603 if you so choose. Think about your team!

[Tensei]

My point was, you WON'T always need 300 extra HP at the start and the EHP from the blocking, and you will still have a lot of item slots open, so 240 HP from 2x fortified bracers is a viable alternative in the majority of the cases. It's just situational imo. I rarely play lego, but I'm quite sure that jungling is possible to do without farming up HotBL first and going straight for your portal key instead. However, I can see getting HotBL when your team is pushing early/getting pushed early and needs you to join early teambattles.

By the way, IMO HotBL is even less useful on Zephyr than on Sandwraith/Disciple as I've never had trouble jungling with just a buckler and 2x trinket of health.

Also, Dhsu, you have to be very careful when quoting Glorify's guides, seeing as he writes from an EXCLUSIVELY competitive perspective. So while his ideas definitely apply to competitive matches, at our level of play Hood won't always be necessary since it's not a guarantee that the enemy team will have 1-2 strong nukers, nor is HotBL always a bad idea to get because the chance of getting an early gold advantage for that beastheart is much higher here than at the competitive level, where player skill should be mostly equal.

[BardicKnowledge]

What do you mean by Regen rings? Fort bracers..? That's 3 item slots being taken up when you could just have one. It adds significant HP and EHP - that's my argument for

Regen rings are the 350 cost items that add +2 regen. Two of them (or one lifetube) are needed for the shaman's headdress recipe.

Edit: Yes, shield + 2 rings takes up 3 slots, but lategame your shaman's only uses one, and you won't have enough items flying around to take up your whole inventory before then anyway (especially assuming that you bring yourself the extra 2 parts for upgraded boots on a courier, or in a stash). Very lategame, you can sell back your stout shield to make room for the last inventory space.

[Bahamut]

So here's a link for those who're new at the game like Rambo & Bonzai (someone direct them here!):

Guides: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53

Your login info is the same one you use to log into the game.

[relyanCe]

HotBL on legion is useful if and only if the guy playing him is ridiculously hotblooded... Or, well, HotBLooded, just for pun. If he can't survive initiations/teamfights without getting his butt raped by everyone and all he can do is port key and taunt, then yeah he should probably have hotbl.

[zircon]

2.15 patch notes;

General

- Pre-Query filtering is now available to cut down on the number of servers pinged

* This will help those who time out when pinging servers to avoid that problem

- Fixed a large amount of spelling and grammar errors in all tooltips

- Game lobby chat now switches to team chat automatically once the hero select screen is displayed

- Fixed the game lobby to show 10 players again (For real this time)

- Fixed runes and some creeps disappearing when not synced correctly with the server

- Significant server optimizations

- Glyph to make buildings immune can now be bound to a key and now shows in the control selection interface by default instead of Patrol

- Added a /time chat command to return the current system time/date of the users computer

* This might not work until the chat server is updated

- Added an /ignorechat or /ic chat command used to toggle ignoring team/all chat

* Note this only works for team/all chat in the lobby, hero select screen and in game, not whispers, IM's and other messages

Behemoth

- Fixed Fissure to properly stun and do damage again

- Fixed an issue causing the AoE stun from Heavyweight to occur at the location of Fissure's target

Scout:

- Vanish now has an upkeep mana cost of 2/3/4/5 per second, changed from 3 at all levels

- Electric Eyes can no longer be placed within a 75 radius of trees

* This is to prevent abusive placement resulting in a block of neutral spawns

- Disarm now lasts 1 second, from 2

Soulstealer

- Fixed Demon Hand's tooltip to be 150 instead of 100

* Demon Hand was doing the correct amount of damage, the tooltip was simply incorrect

The Dark Lady:

- Dark Blades cool down reduced by 4 seconds at all levels (from 26/22/18/14 to 22/18/14/10)

- Charging Strikes' attack speed buff now lasts 6 seconds, increased from 5

- Cover of Darkness now costs 75 mana at all levels (from 50/100/150)

Wild Soul

- Fixed Rabid with Synergy tooltip when it is level 4

Most significant: TDL buffed (again?!) and Scout nerfed.

[Dhsu]

Wait, did they skip directly from 1.54 to 2.15? The changes don't seem that huge.

[Admiral_C]

Most importantly.... why on earth does Scout need a nerf?

[BardicKnowledge]

Scout's disarm is really, really good at a sufficiently high attack speed. Makes sense to nerf it IMO.

However, eyes to kill neutrals seems legit to me, as you give up runespot eyes for the privilege, and probably won't have a spare eye for teamfights either. Especially considering that wards (and tree eyes!) still block neutrals this makes no sense.

[Admiral_C]

Disarm was fine because of the subsequent disarm immunity for 4 seconds after. That extra second is a big difference early on.

[Bahamut]

Yeah scout's disarm is ridiculous.

Also, last night we did a fun 2v2 no stats game - with ~1500 starting gold, Chronos vs Scout is a fun matchup in a lane. It was a pretty close battle for a while.

[Dhsu]

I'm telling you guys, we totally need to do an All Scout match sometime. Arrows EVERYWHERE. All Valkyrie would be hilarious too.

[eternal Zero]

For those of you who like watching high level play it's going to be Hon League inhouse night tonight starting at 9PM EST. You just might see me make an appearance or two but I'm still unsure.

I hear it's going to be shoutcasted quite a bit as well for those of you who can't get observer spots and/or aren't vouched.

[BardicKnowledge]

Is there a link for that zero? How do we observe?

[BardicKnowledge]

Sorry for double post, but this info is worth it. Someone asked me what the conditions were for a hero getting credit for your side's tower/creep kills. The answer:

you are the only one to do damage to someone in the last 15 or so seconds and the legion/hellbourne gets the last hit then it is awarded to you. If more then one person damages the person who dies then the hellbourne get the kill and the gold is split between the two of you.

[eternal Zero]

Is there a link for that zero? How do we observe?

I'm not sure i'll ask katsie next time how she shoutcasts it but i'm sorry i wasn't there tonight i got drrzzunk instead

this hasd been a post buy zero under the influrence

[LuketheXjesse]

Man, if there's anything that makes me not want to play, it's drama.

On another subject, I understand that everyone here takes this game way more seriously than I do, but I wish some people would just be more chill about any mistakes I make in-game.

[Dhsu]

Sounds like League of Legends might be more your thing, judging from what people are saying about it.

[Bahamut]

Man, if there's anything that makes me not want to play, it's drama.

On another subject, I understand that everyone here takes this game way more seriously than I do, but I wish some people would just be more chill about any mistakes I make in-game.

Thing is, certain games require focus - if you're not willing to have focus on a game like this which hinges on micromanagement, then it might not be for you. It requires a certain degree of discipline and intelligence to pick up a game like this, akin to its coming from the likes of Warcraft 3.

But flat out not listening is just inexcusable. You were guilty of it there, and so was bloodpuddles, and bloodpuddles had an extremely shitty attitude because of his inability to listen & learn - zircon and I refuse to play with him ever again, and I highly recommend everyone to do the same because he absolutely would not use his ultimate as kraken and dash in to initiate, and then when he failed to do what he was asked, he started bitching at me as if I caused him to not do what is kraken's only major role. His attitude is second on the tier to the worst teammate you can have in a team game, the worst being a griefer. One can argue that claiming that by his complete and acknowledged unwillingness to work as a team is griefing as well, as it's a team game that highly depends on teamwork.

One thing I think some people just don't realize is that by not doing what you can, you're intentionally screwing your team, and your teammates. It's assholish to say the least. If you come to the agreement beforehand that that's fine, ok, but if you're not in that setting, then it's pretty bad, and if you're in that state, you should generally avoid playing if you wish to be considerate.

[Dhsu]

So yet another boot switcheroo! *cue Yackety Sax*

Ghost (formerly "Enhanced") Marchers

Marchers, 2 x Gloves of the Swift

• +70 movement speed
  
• +24 damage
  

Steamboots

Marchers, Bolstering Armband/Apprentice's Robe/Fleetfeet, Gloves of the Swift

• +60 movement speed
  
• +10 Str|Int|Agi
  
• +25 attack speed
  

NEW! Plated Greaves

Marchers, Shield of the Five, Plated Greaves recipe

• +70 movement speed
  
• +3 all attributes
  
• +5 armor
  
• Activated ability gives +2 Armor and 100% chance to block 10 attack damage to all allied units in a 450 radius for 30 seconds. 25 second cooldown. 25 mana to use.
  

Thoughts? My main question is whether 10 Str or 3 Str + essentially 7 armor + 10 dmg block/attack gives more EHP.

And what will be the fate of the now-orphaned Major Totem??