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Honestly, I really like Yukon and would hate to see it go. Keeping it in the rtv list sounds good, but it'd probably rarely get played, which is most unfortunate.

Viaduct is my favorite koth map by far, but recently I've begun to dislike it because I get a huge fps drop around the point area. My computer can easily handle tf2, and no matter how low I set the graphics the fps still drops to 20-30 in that area for some reason. It makes scouting and sniping incredibly difficult. Still, I'd rather have it in the rotation than any other koth map.

Although I personally don't like waste from past experiences with it in competitive play, it's actually a pretty decent map. But I wouldn't mind keeping it in the rtv only list as well. After all, I'd rather play on another map with a team then play on waste virtually alone against 5 people.

Other than that, I agree with Paranoid's rotation.

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I really like Yukon myself. I feel it should stick around. At least, it should not be replaced by Fastlane; I don't particularly care for it. I also really enjoy doublecross. As pointed out earlier, it seems to result in more fun matches than Turbine does.

Also, are nospreads staying on for good now? I don't really care either way, but I'm just wondering.

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Because it has no logic to separate customs from built-in maps.

So, sometimes it would offer up a vote that was all customs.

That combined with Sourcemod's restriction on how often map votes can happen usually meant you were forced to go to a custom map no one really wanted at the end of the current map.

uh i guess you didnt set it up right

what i used to do was have one txt of maps that would be much like a regular map rotation, all stocks that are well liked, and have the vote (and rtvs) default to only picking maps from that list (with it not picking any map thats been played in the past 5 maps)

id then have the servers nominate list just like a normal nominate list, with all the customs as well as the less liked stock maps on it, and if someone during the map nominates one of those, that will be included in the vote

id also only have it have 5 maps instead of 6 because then you get a few maps with like 3 or 4 votes and theres rarely a clear cut winner so the nextmap ends up being something that fewer people wanted

try it that way

Also, are nospreads staying on for good now? I don't really care either way, but I'm just wondering.

every time the server reboots it goes back to vanilla until someone switches it on

its kind of interesting that people say that it makes scout more powerful, when in fact you actually only shoot 9 bullets with it on instead of the 10 that it fires with the spread set to random, so you do less damage

you also dont have to deal with hilarious long range meatshots (i did 110 with a crit meatshot from FAR away yesterday and that shouldnt happen at all ever)

really though the spread being off most often only affects scout vs scout

its so incredibly annoying to be fighting a scout and to KNOW that i shot him dead on but only a few of the bullets hit him due to some stupid spread and then he hits me for like 90 and i die

if youre a demo or a sniper you really cant say anything about a scout at all either way because either way youre dead simple as that

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Also, are nospreads staying on for good now? I don't really care either way, but I'm just wondering.

I feel no spread should stay on, as it really hasn't broken the server with it's turning on.

Admin vote on it maybe?

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I really like Yukon myself. I feel it should stick around. At least, it should not be replaced by Fastlane; I don't particularly care for it. I also really enjoy doublecross. As pointed out earlier, it seems to result in more fun matches than Turbine does.

Also, are nospreads staying on for good now? I don't really care either way, but I'm just wondering.

It goes back to tf_use_fixed_weaponspread 0 every time the server resets because it's the default.

I, for one, would prefer that it stay that way, as it makes some classes primary weapons work better at long range than they were intended. The first one that comes to mind being the Heavy's minigun.

tl;dr I prefer random spreads because Valve balanced the game with them on.

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The first one that comes to mind being the Heavy's minigun.

there is absolutely 0 change to the minigun with the spread on or off

its shotguns only

and if you hit someone with a sniper range shotgun bullet it does 3 damage

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Ok, so how about this. We take a 'core' rotation, duplicate it, and fill in the gaps with "pool" maps which are less loved, but still worth playing now and then. So basically we play 2x core maps for every 1 pool. Twice the dustrushwaterpitbadary for your money!

SO something like...

Core maps:

cp_dustbowl

pl_goldrush

cp_gravelpit

cp_badlands

pl_badwater

cp_granary

Pool maps:

koth_viaduct

koth_nucleus

koth_harvest

cp_egypt

cp_fastlane

cp_gorge

cp_steel

xxx_well (cp/ctf*)

xxx_sawmill (ctf/koth)

xxx_waste (pl/cp*)

pl_hoodoo

pl_frontier

ctf_doublecross

ctf_turbine

* = last used in rotation

Resulting rotation:

koth_viaduct

cp_dustbowl

cp_fastlane

pl_goldrush

ctf_doublecross

cp_gravelpit

pl_hoodoo

cp_badlands

cp_egypt

pl_badwater

cp_waste_v2

cp_granary

koth_nucleus

cp_dustbowl

ctf_turbine

pl_goldrush

cp_gravelpit

pl_frontier

cp_badlands

cp_gorge

pl_badwater

cp_steel

cp_granary

Thoughts:

I know some of the maps here will rub people the wrong way, but considering the size of the rotation, I think there's something in here for everyeone. None of these maps are universally hated, and I've only snuck two customs on (waste again, and frontier). I've also interleaved maps so that we go pool->core->pool, so if one map drains the server, one of the core maps will refill it. I also took care to reduce instances of the same game type over and over.

edit:

Also, I liked tf_use_fixed_weaponspread 1. It makes shotgunning more of a science and less of a luck thing. SInce certain classes rely on the shotgun, it's nice to have a reliable weapon. Sniping with the shotgun is still pretty useless, the difference is in mid-range, where the shotgun is more likely to go where you want it. This reduces the 'lucky' shots, and increases the response to skill.

edit2: updated rotation to add fastlane between dustbowl and goldrush on the first run

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Resulting rotation:

koth_viaduct

cp_dustbowl

pl_goldrush

ctf_doublecross

cp_gravelpit

pl_hoodoo

cp_badlands

cp_egypt

pl_badwater

cp_waste_v2

cp_granary

koth_nucleus

cp_dustbowl

ctf_turbine

pl_goldrush

cp_gravelpit

pl_frontier

cp_badlands

cp_gorge

pl_badwater

cp_steel

cp_granary

for the most part id say this is incredibly well put together

the only map i think may get some hate is egypt (incidentally i like egypt quite a bit but never suggest it because i know most dont)

i agree with frontier as most people like i guess even though as a map it isnt designed too well (i can rofl around as scout sniper or spy so incredibly easily which is a good indication as to how well its designed)

id just say to move dustbowl and goldrush to not being right next to each other but other than that id say go for it

edit oh heh i didnt see hoodoo on there

id say remove that

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for the most part id say this is incredibly well put together

the only map i think may get some hate is egypt (incidentally i like egypt quite a bit but never suggest it because i know most dont)

i agree with frontier as most people like i guess even though as a map it isnt designed too well (i can rofl around as scout sniper or spy so incredibly easily which is a good indication as to how well its designed)

id just say to move dustbowl and goldrush to not being right next to each other but other than that id say go for it

edit oh heh i didnt see hoodoo on there

id say remove that

I pretty much agree with this entirely, although I hate Egypt.

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I agree, the list looks very nice. I'm not entirely convinced that customs in the stock rotation are the way to go, but I can live with it. It's the rest of the server I'm worried about.

(I'd push for Pipeline, but last time I tried that nothing really happened.)

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Overall that's a nice little rotation. Hoodoo isn't a great map but not too much to complain about overall. We can always rtv when we don't want to play it, or at least I hope so. Maybe Hoodoo will become self-aware and disable rtv, in which case I hope we will quickly remove it from the rotation.

Also, when I was contemplating making an entire map rotation to post here the x2 idea came to mind. I'm really happy with what I see, even if seeing Goldrush twice in rotation makes me cringe. Oh well, more quality time with Arrow Spam + Razorback.

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Pipeline stage 3 is just terrible. It's one of the few maps I've ragequit on. Snipers. OH GOD THE SNIPERS. But if the support is there, I'll swap it with hoodoo.

It wasn't so bad before Valve pushed up the winner start points. 1 is where 2 used to be, and 2 skips the first hill entirely now.

You are fortunate. It's a Payload map that's pretty much entirely choke points.

It also has an extremely high tendency for RED to win, even more-so than Goldrush (which favors RED 2:1 in the official map win stats). Heck, usually RED wins Hoodoo in the first stage.

Valve's official stats don't cover maps that ship with the game buy aren't made by Valve. :(

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It wasn't so bad before Valve pushed up the winner start points. 1 is where 2 used to be, and 2 skips the first hill entirely now.

It also has an extremely high tendency for RED to win, even more-so than Goldrush (which favors RED 2:1 in the official map win stats). Heck, usually RED wins Hoodoo in the first stage.

Valve's official stats don't cover maps that ship with the game buy aren't made by Valve. :(

All the more reason to... not play it unless you happen to like winning more often than not and can get on RED.

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And their data collection methods aren't exposed to me :(

However, this does give me an interesting idea.

I thought you already had a server plugin to track that sort of thing (the one with the map).

Anyway, I see I got a new hat today while I was idleing (I'm not home yet); Tough Guy's Torque. Surprisingly, it's one of only 3 items I've gained over the last 16 hours.

I was kinda hoping for a Scout, Soldier, Pyro, or Medic hat. :/

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