The Extra Credits thread!! EC is amazing!

[Jonnas]

I seriously doubt this could turn into a disaster of that scale for either company. But it could mean losses, which would still have an impact on the industry as a whole.

Yeah, I might have been blowing things out of proportion, there.

Those were successful?

I remember EyeToy being pretty successful. Casual players loved it before the Wii came along, and it was marketed better than most consoles.

Though I don't know how much it sold, I would be surprised if it didn't sell well, considering they were still making games for it in 2008.

As for ROB, Ambassador already covered that.

[BardicKnowledge]

As for the Kinect and Move, I definitely agree that they need to have great software to sell it. Similarly, I also agree that if you want good motion-controlled games, the Wii is the console to own, at least for the foreseeable future. Hopefully the new peripherals will encourage more quality development from all sides...it looks like we'll find out this holiday season.

[big giant circles]

Diversity - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2175-Diversity

[BardicKnowledge]

Diversity - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2175-Diversity

Excellent -- will check this out shortly. Reserving this post to add discussion tonight.

Well, you guys have identified the major problems. Fixing these is going to be more of a challenge than most, as this is partly a problem of larger society not contained to video games (especially the sexuality and race points). The most immediate strides can come from creating woman whose boobs aren't the sole reason for her existence.

[Master_Yoshi]

I think there was a lot that you guys can cover, for sure. Although, to be honest, the diversity you are talking about doesn't really exist too often in most media. I wonder, are you guys going to be looking at examples in media where it was successful (Example: Captain Jack Harkness from Dr. Who/Torchwood as a successful gay/bi male) and then show how it could be modelled into games?

[sephfire]

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how we handle it myself. We aren't going to do these follow-up episode immediately or all in a row. They'll be spread out over future weeks. Which is probably for the best, given how much negative feedback this one has been getting.

[Jonnas]

Wow, that really is one of the deepest topics you could've chosen. And yes, this is all ingrained in society, not just games.

Thankfully, strong female roles are becoming more common, but the overabundance of fanservice out there is disgusting. It just shows how juvenile our society can be

Properly portrayed bi/homosexuals are incredibly rare, not just in videogames. Thinking about it, the only games I remember playing with non-stereotypical homosexual characters are from the Fire Emblem series (and that's depending on character relationships, with the exception of Heather, who is an assumed lesbian)

By the way, in "Ethnic diversity", you mentioned Square-Enix. Why, exactly? The only non-white/asian characters I can think of are Barret, that new guy from XIII and the fictional races.

[Ramaniscence]

By the way, in "Ethnic diversity", you mentioned Square-Enix. Why, exactly? The only non-white/asian characters I can think of are Barret, that new guy from XIII and the fictional races.

Let me be first to say:

The Elder Scrolls. This is all. (for now)

[Thalzon]

Holy crap, yes. This topic is something that has been bugging me for what seems like forever. Some characters seem designed around the concept that they must show off their tits and ass no matter how stupid it makes them look.

It's pretty sad when the only black female heroine I can really think of (that looks black and is not just dipped-in-tea-black) is Shinobu.

[Gollgagh]

uh thalzon what shinobu are you talking about

that name is about as common as john

[BardicKnowledge]

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how we handle it myself. We aren't going to do these follow-up episode immediately or all in a row. They'll be spread out over future weeks. Which is probably for the best, given how much negative feedback this one has been getting.

Are you guys really getting that much negative feedback? It's a topic that needs to be addressed badly -- the only critique I have is that I found myself looking forward to the indepth episodes covering just one topic instead of a lit review episode (geez did I just type that? Grad school is killing me) that was largely to identify the problems.

[relyanCe]

By the way, in "Ethnic diversity", you mentioned Square-Enix. Why, exactly? The only non-white/asian characters I can think of are Barret, that new guy from XIII and the fictional races.

I think what he means is that Squeenix regularly addresses issues concerning gender/ethnic diversity in their games, albeit usually in a more fantastical way.

Let me be first to say:

The Elder Scrolls. This is all. (for now)

yeah pretty much. I can recall examples of everything addressed in Seph's video.

[Ramaniscence]

It's pretty sad when the only black female heroine I can really think of (that looks black and is not just dipped-in-tea-black) is Shinobu.

Left4Dead2

[Thalzon]

You didn't even post her name, dude.

[Gollgagh]

well thalzon, your entry wasn't exactly specific itself, and I'm going to assume it's this character until you specify

[Ramaniscence]

You didn't even post her name, dude.

Rochelle??

[Binjovi]

Nice work! I wait for the other episodes with much anticipation.

Also, I think he might be talking about Shinobu from No More Heroes 2.

[BardicKnowledge]

Rochelle??

His point was that she's not exactly a well defined character, as illustrated by the fact that you didn't type her name the first time -- both her and Louis come off as "token" characters more than anything else (though none of the L4D1/2 cast is well defined, so in context it's not like the minority characters or women are less defined than the white males).

[Jonnas]

I think what he means is that Squeenix regularly addresses issues concerning gender/ethnic diversity in their games, albeit usually in a more fantastical way.

What games, exactly? The Dragon Quest series? Or is it the Final Fantasies set in Ivalice?

I'm serious, I don't know

[relyanCe]

What games, exactly? The Dragon Quest series? Or is it the Final Fantasies set in Ivalice?

I'm serious, I don't know

pretty prevalent in recent FF games, along with Ivalice entries. FFX and X-2, along with XII and XIII all directly deal with these issues in some form or another. Aside from that, pretty much every Squeenix title I've played of recent memory at least passes the Bechdel test.

[Thalzon]

Shinobu is from No More Heroes 2. She's playable for 2 stages.

EDIT:

C'mon, she's the very first hit for "shinobu" on GIS.

[Jonnas]

pretty prevalent in recent FF games, along with Ivalice entries. FFX and X-2, along with XII and XIII all directly deal with these issues in some form or another. Aside from that, pretty much every Squeenix title I've played of recent memory at least passes the Bechdel test.

Ah, okay. I was just curious since I haven't played the recent ones.

[sephfire]

Are you guys really getting that much negative feedback? It's a topic that needs to be addressed badly -- the only critique I have is that I found myself looking forward to the indepth episodes covering just one topic instead of a lit review episode (geez did I just type that? Grad school is killing me) that was largely to identify the problems.

Sadly so. It didn't take long for the comments on the Escapist to get hostile. It may be that we didn't explain our argument well enough.

It's definitely not going to stop us from doing those follow-up topics, though.

[Gollgagh]

C'mon, she's the very first hit for "shinobu" on GIS.

[Gario]

It's an interesting topic you're tackling, and one that'll take a lot of endurance to pursue, for sure. There will be no way for you to come up with an answer that everyone will be happy with simply because these issues are not only issues in games. They're not even issues with the media. They touch on issues that people are dealing with in real life. Sexism is still prevalent in life, as is the lack of ethnic variety and realistic representation of homosexuality, here. It's even more difficult because many people are not comfortable with the subjects at hand, either (Christianity and their views on homosexuality, for example, or WASPs and ethnic diversity), so even when games start to implement these things it WILL hurt the business, in the short run. People will avoid games that implement these things, at first.

Don't be discouraged at the negative responses - you're touching an incredibly difficult subject, here, and I think you know it. I personally can't wait to see what you have to say on it (I've seen a hint of it on your sexuality video on Youtube, so I know it'll be good). It's something that needs to be addressed in life, and if it takes video games to make the first step towards a more tolerant future then so be it - get the business rolling in the right direction with your vids. Good luck, bro.