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League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!


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we'll add you - we usually do an ARAM or two every night.

The skillset looks kinda boring to me tbh. Most of the skills have appeared in some form on other champions already.

does that mean that anyone else who has a knockup skill is just a knockoff of cho and is boring, then? or anyone with an aoe cast ult like fiddles is just boring because it's been done before? naw, it just means that different synergies from skills make characters good or bad, not necessarily the skills themselves.

that goes for anyone, not just donkey kong or whatever his name is. i find the character's synergies interesting as opposed to just the makeup of each individual skill and whether or not it's been done before. i could care less if every skill is simple and boring, if they work together awesome =)

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Maybe I'm just biased because Heroes of Newerth is releasing a monkey king hero as well soon, whose skills look way more fun (He can jump across enemy heroes' heads, smash the ground to create a mountain that he can jump off from, and his ult gives him a flying mount)

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Well, one thing I've come to dislike about this game is how seemingly overpowered jungling is. Two champions get solo xp, red buff is insanely powerful earlygame, and having a champion on your team who's constantly MIA and ready to gank is just a huge advantage period.

I don't recall ever losing a game where I jungled and the enemy team was 212, and the only time when it wasn't a complete stomp was when they actually went out of their way to gank me early on.

On the other hand, a jungling gangplank on the enemy team completely dominated us earlier when we had a standard 212 setup.

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what are they doing to it?

Removing the slow from it, IIRC. I think they want to change it from a slow to a haste on the user?

There's a red post from...Morello, I think, where he talks about how they plan on redoing jungling as a whole. I'll see if I can find it.

Anyone want to take bets on Wukong's skins? I can almost guarantee we'll get a Dragonball based one.

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Agreed with Tensei. In HoN, jungling is less powerful overall. Everyone has TPs so it's easier to change position, and by warding the opponent's jungle you can block creep spawns. Furthermore, there's no Smite. The few heroes that CAN jungle from level 1 typically aren't ready to gank until level 6, and even so, it's a risky strategy. Seems like in LoL it's a no-brainer due to the buffs. I know they're revamping it, so I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

Edited by zircon
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but is that necessarily something that's op and needs to be nerfed, or is it a failing of the community to always have a jungler - just like you always have to have a mid? an argument can be made that the mid character - because of their ability to roam and catch lanes in a 3v2 while relatively overpowered because of their higher level - is OP, and needs to be nerfed by making the middle lane longer or adding a sixth hero. obviously that wouldn't happen, but it's the same argument as with a jungler. it just means you play differently, not necessarily that it's a broken system.

i realize that the power of a jungler is in what they aren't doing - appearing on the map anywhere - is the same as what they are doing - showing up and ganking. but a stealthy character like twitch or evelynn can do the same thing, really - they're not showing in a lane, so they're in every lane - just without the level adjustment from successful ganking. but we all know that a successful jungler can have games where they can't seem to get fed early, and as a result are hosed in mid-game where they're way behind.

i guess i don't see why something that's done differently than in HoN needs to be changed to be more like HoN. it's not OP any more than a lot of different tactics in the game, i don't think. this might be my relative inexperience talking, but i just don't see the difference.

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I think something is imbalanced if it's not an even tactical decision. Having a jungler is supposed to be such a decision; do we risk putting one of our heroes up against two, thus giving them more XP and increasing gank power from jungle? Or play it safe, making our lanes stronger but decreasing overall XP and map control?

What it LOOKS like, to us anyway, is that there is never a case where you wouldn't want a jungler. That makes the game less balanced and less interesting. In HoN or DotA, jungling is a 50/50 proposition. It MIGHT work for you, or it might not, which is why I'm drawing a comparison to those games. To make matters worse (at least at our level) higher-level players with tons of runes have a way easier time jungling. having +5 or +10AP in lane might not make a big difference, but being able to get blue buff alone at level 1 as Amumu vs. not being able to DOES make a big difference.

I don't think having vs. not having a mid is a good analogy at all, because the entire genre is built around the concept of three lanes with heroes fighting in each lane (initially, anyway.) So while you could just not use one of the lanes, that's about as good a decision as literally not playing the game at all. A better analogy might be why do we run 2/1/2 when we could run 2/2/1, or 3/1/1, for example, and I would argue those things should be valid too.

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you're right - those are better analogies. i always wondered why 3-1-1 wasn't a better strategy, particularly when jungling basically can make that happen on occasion, and bardic pointed out the monetary and exp loss is what makes it not worth it.

a point where you don't want a jungler might be where you've got excellent synergy in a lane, perhaps - a solid 2v lane can push a 1v2 where the single player can't do anything because of excellent harass. a good situation might be where a player like alistar and caitlyn work together, where alistar's excellent crowd control, caitlyn's awesome harass, and the natural tower-pushing abilities of both characters work to drive that player out time and again.

i guess jungling forces you to be more tactical about how you plan your lanes. can a player like lux or heimerdinger just turtle in a lane? sure, but you can harass to the point where they can't do anything because of either having no mana or no cash.

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yeah I agree with zircon and tensei BUT I think it's less than jungling is overpowered so much that 212 laning is underpowered

nerfing the former somehow would take a fun part out of the game for many players, whereas buffing the latter would both make the game more fun for people who do not/are incapable of jungling

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I'm fine with jungling as it is now. It's part of the basic things you need for a solid team. You can't say tanking is overpowered because you always need a tank, it's just something you need in your team to be effective. Plus it adds taht element of tension to laning. Laning is pretty boring already, if they nerf jungling so you have to fear less that jungler gank then it will take away some fun from that phase of the game.

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The thing is, if the other team has a jungler, then you should be warding the gank spots (usually the tri bush, the river corner bush or dragon/baron area.

If you have those spots warded, (and mid lanes wards their side bushes, and is extra vigilant, then ganking by junglers should be easily prevented.

If you have a support character, running CV (Clarvoyance, a good skill to have on a Lux or Sona) on them is very helpful in finding out if a gank is coming, though another easy sign is if a side stops pushing the lane, i.e. only goes for last hits, and allows you to move up. Usually a big sign that they're going for a gank.

Jungler vs non just requires you to change your style, and once the mid phrase hits in, even if your team on a whole is down in kills, it's the team play that ends up deciding the end result. (Just don't feed their carries :P)

@Tensai

With GP's buff of late, he's become extremely strong in all area's of the game. A fed Gangplank is something to fear (especially with parlay + crit runes early game)

@Sir_NutS

Don't underestimate Sona's ability act like a carry. Her passive, plus a Sheen makes it far more damaging in team fights then people may realise. She's more of a carry/support hybrid then a pure support, as her heals are no where of the level of someone like Soraka, but she can deal more physical damage then people would realise, and is very good at harassing once she hits level 3 (and with her aura's it makes her laning partner that much more dangerous).

Edited by bain_nick
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@Sir_NutS

Don't underestimate Sona's ability act like a carry. Her passive, plus a Sheen makes it far more damaging in team fights then people may realise. She's more of a carry/support hybrid then a pure support, as her heals are no where of the level of someone like Soraka, but she can deal more physical damage then people would realise, and is very good at harassing once she hits level 3 (and with her aura's it makes her laning partner that much more dangerous).

Sure her passive can deal a decent amount of damage, specially with a sheen, but early game is kind of dificult to set up and late game it means getting in the fight, which IMO is only worth it if you're going to Ulti. You have to think if it's worth it to get so close to the enemy just to land 1 blow in a teamfight.

Sona is the #1 priority kill and as such she should stay as far away from the fight as the range of her aura allows. The point of Sona isn't only her heals, her point is to keep the speed, magic resist and damage buff running at the same time, all the time in late game.

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While carry supports/tanks/whatever is viable (I've done AD Sona and AD Janna successfully) it boils down to player skill. It worked for my because I was better than my opponents, not because of the hero. They have no steroid, no viable escape mechanism, no skills that truly scale. They can be threatening, yes, but if the enemy team's AD carry is at all decent you'll have to work a lot harder and smarter to do what they can pull off easily.

It's fun every now and again but I definitely don't like seeing it with a vast majority of people I play with.

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