Garian

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So, what's the general consensus on Morello's Evil tome? I like how it works in the CDR and Mana regen as well as the AP, and it seems rather cheap compared to some of the stuff.

I think it's more on the "bad" side of items. It's not very cost efficient for the stats you get, but on the flipside does provide an unique combination of stats.

CDR is fairly easy to come by - 9% from masteries alone - and almost 6% from full CDR blue runes. Tanks should, in my opinion, be building Frozen Heart almost 100% of their games, which gives an additional 20%, bringing CDR to 35%. This lets you get Merc treads for the tenacity without sacrificing the full CDR from Ionian boots. Shurelya's gives another 15% which is a core item on Alistar. Even if you don't have full masteries, that's at least 35% of CDR without Morello's Evil Tome. You can build much better "tank" AP items like Rylai's or Rod of Ages to fill in for AP with the health which is critical in tanks, as noted by Brad. Mana regen would be taken care of by Shurelya's and masteries.

Even at summoner level 15 you can get 3% from the offense tree; 6% at level 20 in utility.

If you buy a Doran's Ring, you'll get health, 5 mana regen, and 15 ap. That's just missing the 10% CDR and 2 mana regen from the Fiendish Codex but with bonus health at almost 1/3 of the cost. Your early game will be much better off with a D-Ring than trying to rush Morello's.

tl;dr you end up with much higher combined stats by not getting Morello's

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Deathfire Grasp is basically Morello's Evil Tome with less CDR and an amazing active.

It's a tiny bit pricier, but I most of the time I would rather get the Grasp over the Tome. The active on it is way too good to pass up on.

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Again, I disagree. Deathfire Grasp is usually only worth it on support champs and maybe tanks. For AP carries, the AP loss you take with Deathfire in comparison to Zhonya's or Rabadon's is too high for "30%" damage which is affected by MR. Tanks will hurt from it, but their high MR will negate a great portion of the damage. Used on anyone else, I'd rather have a Zhonya's or Rabadon's. That said, you're not even supposed to be targeting tanks in the first place.

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I tried deathfire, and it worked well, simply because at first I had the philosopher stone and kage's lucky pick to help with the gold, but when I upgraded both, I used the actives well. Deathfire turned into a ranged attack, which Alistar lacks. When Exhaust and Flash are on cool down, then only attack with some kind of range I have is the W, and if the enemy is not really near death, I just push him away. It also serves as a deterrent if someone is full life and thinking about pushing forward.

I think the lack of a ranged attack is gonna make me change my shoes as well, probably get the +3 move. Too many times I had a foe down to critical and risked the W only to push them away at less than 50 hp.

So I think I'll start with Philosopher Stone, Lucky Pick, boots of swiftness, Sheen, frozen heart, and Rabadon's. Upgrade both the stone and the pick at least 30 minutes after I purchase them. (yeah, the return on these two items is LONG. Basically, I upgrade them for the final push phase.)

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Morello's isn't all that great for Summoner's Rift, but on Crystal Scar I find that it gives everything you need as an AP caster. Zilean works with it especially well -- CDR on Rewind means that he can keep his speed buff on permanently...and the mana regen makes it practical.

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i often get morello's on fiddlesticks. with the masteries and 11% CDR from blues and quints, i get max CDR with just one item. i usually get my rod of ages as soon as possible, and then my next item is either fiendish codex or spellpen boots, with the other coming next.

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Check my ELO bro: 1334!

Also, wow. I just played with a Tryndamere in Ranked that went 23-1-10 or so. I've never seen anyone do that well in a non-bot game. It was unreal; he had a near-perfect creep score too in the first ten minutes (~80).

Edited by zircon

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I tried deathfire, and it worked well, simply because at first I had the philosopher stone and kage's lucky pick to help with the gold, but when I upgraded both, I used the actives well. Deathfire turned into a ranged attack, which Alistar lacks. When Exhaust and Flash are on cool down, then only attack with some kind of range I have is the W, and if the enemy is not really near death, I just push him away. It also serves as a deterrent if someone is full life and thinking about pushing forward.

I think the lack of a ranged attack is gonna make me change my shoes as well, probably get the +3 move. Too many times I had a foe down to critical and risked the W only to push them away at less than 50 hp.

So I think I'll start with Philosopher Stone, Lucky Pick, boots of swiftness, Sheen, frozen heart, and Rabadon's. Upgrade both the stone and the pick at least 30 minutes after I purchase them. (yeah, the return on these two items is LONG. Basically, I upgrade them for the final push phase.)

You should be getting Shurelya's pretty much asap. It's a core item on Alistar and alleviates your problems of initiating and running away. It also helps your team out as it's an aoe effect.

Additionally, you should know that you can chain Alistar's w and q, in that order, if you time your key presses correctly. If you time it correctly, you'll charge toward the enemy target and they will be knocked into the air but not away from you. It's a great way to initiate a fight near a tower because most teams group up under them. Also it's a nice solution to your <50hp dilemma.

Finally, I think AP Alistar is a lost cause, his AP ratios were nerfed to half of what they were on his q and something similar on his w. As a tank, you should not be trying to output damage and instead you should be concentrating on positioning enemy champions to be bursted, get them peeled from their teammates, interrupting enemy ults, etc. etc. By building a Rabadon's, when you have no other large AP items, you are gimping yourself considerably. If you want to kill people as an AP champ but still be tanky, play Swain or Cho'gath. Alistar was specifically nerfed to not be able to do what you are trying to do. But hey, if you find it fun, just ignore me and have fun. :D

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Well, the AP's scale is not the best, but the abilities that use it do it well... Dunno if you see what I mean. Healing can affect a huge number of targets, even if the AP scaling is low, the total gains from ap is divided among as many as 15 minions. Well used, the W cripples an adversary, and the Q is great for bashing minions. On an AP Alistar, I can push any lane from start to finish, with minimal minion losses even taking down towers. I may take a break from him and play come Janna to switch things up a bit though.

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I see what you mean, and you're right, it is used efficiently across multiple targets. I just think that while Alistar can fill that role of a pusher, he's not a great choice when you need to sacrifice some of your tankiness to do so.

I guess I'm just used to the meta game. Support/tanks are supposed to let their ad carry partners do all the pushing and all the CS. Even at 1250 elo which is pretty much average, I see people get pissed at their tanks/support for taking a few creep kills.

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i got another team to record our game because i was so awesome. gg me

also this is pretty funny

Hah, awesome timing. I just bought the Cryocore skin for Brand on a whim and went 10/3/6 in a game.

Every time their Singed tried to do his whole "LOL I'M SINGED GONNA ESCAPE WITH 100 HEALTH" crap I would fire off a random pair of W and Q into the jungle and finish him. He wasn't pleased at all. :D

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I see what you mean, and you're right, it is used efficiently across multiple targets. I just think that while Alistar can fill that role of a pusher, he's not a great choice when you need to sacrifice some of your tankiness to do so.

I guess I'm just used to the meta game. Support/tanks are supposed to let their ad carry partners do all the pushing and all the CS. Even at 1250 elo which is pretty much average, I see people get pissed at their tanks/support for taking a few creep kills.

If I go AP Alistar, wouldn't Lichbane be a good choice over sheen?

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If I go AP Alistar, wouldn't Lichbane be a good choice over sheen?

Lich Bane is a good item as it gives you two main stats that are good for tanks: movement speed and magic resistance. However, the MR is a little low, but combined with say, Banshee's Veil, the combined MR should be sufficient. The mana and 80 ap is good but are really just small bonuses. I'd definitely recommend this over a Rabadon's for AP Alistar. Combine this with a Zhonya's, Abyssal Sceptor, and/or a Rylai's and you got yourself some armor and MR with the AP that you're looking for.

The best part of Lich Bane is the passive that adds your AP to your next physical attack. A W+Q+auto attack combo will deal quite a thump to your target. Compared to Sheen, I think it's better for AP Alistar.

The main downside is that Lich Bane costs so much, just under 200g less than a Rabadon's. That downside is offset by replacing Rabadon's in your build. Sure you lose a little bit of AP, but Alistar's ratios suck but you probably gain more damage overall by switching to Lich Bane.

tl;dr yes

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we just played a game of dominion against dunkey

we won 3-0

i said "not even close, baby"

he responded "YOU BASTARD"

my fucking night is made

Tonight was already a good night. This made it even better.

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I dunno. Knights and samurai and wizards and crap seem fine, but for some reason a random cowboy is striking me as out of place. Can't really put my finger on it.

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