Rozovian Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Okay so, dunno if segment is the right word but it gets the idea across. Parts? Sections? Sequences? Anyway, SMB's Overworld - which you all know - has whatisit 3 segments to it. Pop songs typically have verse, chorus, and bridge, so also three. Some sd3 tracks have 3 that repeat, then a fourth. Some tracks just kind'a fade from one part to another so it's difficult to tell where one ends and the other begins. So... How many do you need for a varied arrangement, should we count slight changes like one verse with minor chords and one with major, does length factor into this, should intros count, is it varied enough by just doing variations on the same thing, etc.? I'm asking partly because I've kind'a hit a wall in my writing for my original album, and am thinking about changing my method to writing B and C (and D and E and so on) parts to my tracks instead to stretching whatever parts I've got and seeing to what kind of writing that takes me. tl;dr: How many different parts of a song does the song need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 However many the artist deems necessary. I usually write songs without traditional structure -- remixes included. I have, for instance, an A, B, C, D and E among which some common elements are shared, but there's rarely a repeating section. Yes, I know it's a little weird to admit it, but I don't much enjoy traditional song structure. You've got creative license, so do whatever feels right to you. That being said, writing something like A, B, A, C, B, D or what have you is much easier to fill time with, but is it appealing to you? Does it work in that particular mix? Would more original material be most appropriate? I'm sure you weren't stabbing for an absolute answer, but this kind of decision is just totally situational and would be approached differently from person to person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 it depends on the song?!?!?! Just keep adding stuff until it feels right to stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambinate Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 exposition development recapitulation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Odyssey Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 expositiondevelopment recapitulation classical Since I frequently got composer's block in college, I'd make it a point to ask teachers what methods they used to kick it. One suggestion is to not write the whole piece from beginning to finish. Write the ending first, or save the intro until you've got something to introduce. Have a bunch of ideas you want to put in a piece but don't cement them in order; see if one works better before or after another. It's really easy to get stuck in a mindset of going from point A to point B, but you have to remember that's what the outcome will be. Nobody will know if you wrote the thing backwards, and even if you told anyone, some wouldn't care, and some might like the piece even more. Also, it's usually helpful to plan out the entire thing first, and then start working, changing things as you go that don't suit your liking. Most of my composer's block on my current mix was due to the fact that I was writing it as I went, so when I finished a section I was like "Alright...now what," and then have to figure it out, rather than having it waiting for me. BUT, to answer the topic at hand, however many sections you damn well please! I would call slight changes A* & B* (* = prime, so A-prime, B-prime, Metroid-prime, etc.) so that you know it's the same section occuring with a slight change rather than having sections A-E with B through E all being slight variations of A. That way you can organize a bit better with ideas and not go too extreme with labeling; however, that's just how I would do it. As Ecto said, it varies from person to person on the method that you choose to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconiator Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 For instance, my 2011 Grand Robot Master Remix Battle goes i, A, B. A, B, C, A, e where A is a verse, B is the chorus, C is a bridge, and the period is a breakdown. i is the intro and e is the ending/coda. I never really dabbled in other parts to a song before though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 "as many or as few you feel it needs". I don't really plan a particular structure actually. Personally, I just write something and then think of "what comes next?" If anything. Yeah that's a lame answer I know, but that's honestly the way I do it. Stop adding stuff if it no longer has meaning to the song and/or your just happy with the song structure as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Cop-out answers. How do the pros do it, what are your observations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Cop-out answers. How do the pros do it, what are your observations? YOU ASS!! I kid. But no, really, it depends. Your question is sort of like asking how much blue should be used when painting the sky in a landscape. Well, obviously don't paint the whole canvas blue because there's grass and trees to be seen, but don't paint the whole thing green either because there has to be some sky. Make it just right. You are the only arbiter of what is right. If you're making a song to impress yourself, take that into consideration. If you're looking to impress as many people as possible, be more traditional (or more experimental if your work-in-progress is sounding like something special). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Cop-out answers. How do the pros do it, what are your observations? How are any of the answers "cop-outs"? The pros do it like everyone's basically been saying. However they feel like. You can use existing song structures in pop music or more classical ones like a rondo or a sonata. Selena Gomez is like....Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Chorus, Outro with no variation between the different verses and stuff. Dream Theater is like....way more complicated. A lot of those kinds of bands create variation by making each verse or chorus a slight variation of the previous. Like chorus two might use inversions of the chords, or may be arpeggiated, lots of improvised solo sections etc. I still think the answer is "as many different sections as you want". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusK Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Doesn't SMB Overworld actually have 4 parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambinate Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Cop-out answers. How do the pros do it, what are your observations? pros in what genre of music? it varies widely depending on what kind of music you want to make, and often it varies even within the different subgenres of each kind of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissidia Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 As long as every part has significance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Odyssey Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 pros in what genre of music? it varies widely depending on what kind of music you want to make, and often it varies even within the different subgenres of each kind of music. Yeah; pros of the Classical era? Like ambinate said, exposition, development, recapitulation. Pros of the pop music genre? Intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus x2. That's my advice was more geared towards the compositional approach, since that's broad enough to cover all genres since you didn't really specify if you were talking about orchestral or phat beatz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamer Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 To answer your question, I would say for an average length song (2-3 minutes) there should be no less than 3-4 segments, not including the intro and exit. Of course, I would focus less on how many segments there are in my song more so than how does each segment fit with the previous and next. For instance, listening to Rozovian's Braincooler, I can find at least 7 divisions in the song, but each one melds into the other, which is what makes it great. I would love to see someone map Disco Dan's Blue Lightning in segments. That would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROTO·DOME Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I think the top scientists ended up with 3.56. Ah no, I'm just getting confused between the questions "How many sections should a song have?" and "What is 1.78 x 2?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I think the top scientists ended up with 3.56.Ah no, I'm just getting confused between the questions "How many sections should a song have?" and "What is 1.78 x 2?". Wait, so, like... they multiplied 1 minute and 78 seconds by 2 to get 3 minutes and 56 seconds? In other news, I'm 5 feet, 13 inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 In other news, I'm 5 feet, 13 inches. I'm going to hit you if you don't convert that. Either use the stupid American measurements properly or don't use them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I'm going to hit you if you don't convert that. Either use the stupid American measurements properly or don't use them at all. 73000 milliinches. My fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 73000 milliinches. My fault. Do you not know there are 12 inches in a foot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Do you not know there are 12 inches in a foot? I am being trolled. ... am I being trolled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I am being trolled.... am I being trolled? I'm extending an easy opportunity for you to troll me. And you're failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I'm extending an easy opportunity for you to troll me. And you're failing. Eh, with all the "inches" talk, I was going to make a dick joke, but I think it would be unfair "extending" such a joke to a 15-year-old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I'm 0.000757575758 miles, 21 inches tall. Also, I'm currently doing a twelve-segment remix of a two-segment source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 How many segments are in any one song? This many. In short, there are a shitload of segments. Question definitively answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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