SuperiorX Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 *Subbed Version (1/31)* Smooth Operator Final *UPDATE (12/6)* Smoother Operator v4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey everybody, this track was my Round 4 entry for the Wily Castle Remix Gauntlet. It is an arrangement of Needle Man's theme from Mega Man 3 and the Mr. X Fortress theme from Mega Man 6. It features my teammate, Phonetic Hero, on the drum sequencing! I'm pretty proud of this mix, I feel like it's the best produced & arranged mix I've created. Unfortunately it didn't garner too many votes in the compo, but I'm not sure if that's cause no one liked it, or I was just up against some tough competition. Regardless, I'm really interested in any and all feedback because I'd really like to sub this to the panel! I've got two versions to compare too. The first version is virtually identical to the compo version except I cleaned up some of the low frequencies (the bass and kick felt like they were getting distorted a bit), lowered the reverse cymbal volume, and adjusted the limiter I was using on the master track. Smooth Operator - Compo version (with minor production tweaks) The second version I re-arranged the end section a bit. I kind of felt like the arrangement got a little stale in the second half of the song (although that could've just been because I heard this thing non-stop for a week), so I mixed things up a bit. The song is identical to the above version until the Wily theme climax section (2:26 - 2:41), which has a few note & rhythm changes. The 2:42 - 3:09 section replaces the Wily A section from the original mix, with the Needle Man A section on the lead synth (which is a little more energetic than the mellow square synth that was playing the Wily A melody). Smoother Operator - Alternate Arrangement Let me know which version you guys prefer. I'm really at a loss, I like both. General comments, production crits, whatever you guys hear, let me know! I appreciate it! I plan on opening this up for mod review after I hear some comments. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phonetic Hero Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Nice man! This feels more purposeful after the big climactic section, like it drives till the end instead of wandering around a bit till the outtro. The rearrangement is satisfactory I can't give a whole lot of other crits other than "this sounds better than it did" because I've heard it about a billion times and everything has just kinda settled for me, as I'm sure you've experienced as well. Maybe if I give it like a week without listening and then come back to it, I'll be more useful. GROOOOOOVE BIAS'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Well, it certainly had to be because of the competition - this mix is actually pretty sexy. In a compo where that many people compete at once, it's very, very hard to pull votes in, since the whole gamut of remixers is always on the table (unlike a heads-up compo, in which this probably would have won out over plenty of people). Personally, I like the mixing in the alternate version better than the original - it sounds deeper and more sonorous. Overall, the biggest complaints that I'd have are that the arrangement sounds like it's meandering a bit too much, and the soundscape is far too static. I like this song, I like the style, the production is pretty spot on, but there seems to be little actual direction of the track. It just seems to move from one place to another without much reason to it. As for the static soundscapes, I will first say that what you have is indeed sexy and enjoyable. However, since you use most of the same textures and instruments in the same fashion this cool atmosphere gets stale and stagnant quickly. Be sure to give more variety in your mix, and it'll make your chill soundscape sound that much better. One final complaint: you should certainly make your signature represent this thread rather than the old Dive Man remix. Dive man was cool, at the time, but man... 2009? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 Well, it certainly had to be because of the competition - this mix is actually pretty sexy. In a compo where that many people compete at once, it's very, very hard to pull votes in, since the whole gamut of remixers is always on the table (unlike a heads-up compo, in which this probably would have won out over plenty of people). Oh yeah I figured, I was more disappointed with the lack of feedback, but it is a compo and not the WIP forums, which is why I threw it up here now . And thanks, I'm glad you think it's sexy However, since you use most of the same textures and instruments in the same fashion this cool atmosphere gets stale and stagnant quickly. Be sure to give more variety in your mix, and it'll make your chill soundscape sound that much better. I'm at a little bit of a loss here. What do you suggest? That's what I tried to do by varying up the lead, the guitar-ish synth handles the Needle Man theme mostly, while the mellow square synth has the Wily theme. Do you mean I should vary the instruments more, or work more on textures/layering and dynamics? One final complaint: you should certainly make your signature represent this thread rather than the old Dive Man remix. Dive man was cool, at the time, but man... 2009? ROFL. Updated. I actually honestly forgot that was still down there. But before the GRMRB 2011 and this compo, that actually was the last thing I had made. I've been away for nearly 2 years. And in other news... I've actually got plans to bring back the ol' Dive Man. Nice man! This feels more purposeful after the big climactic section, like it drives till the end instead of wandering around a bit till the outtro. The rearrangement is satisfactory That's kind of my sentiment too. Sweet. Thanks man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Okay. Well... It's hard to choose, but I think there's a compromise somewhere between the two synths you are using, maybe pair them up, and work around each other? Anyway, there are a couple other issues that I am having w/ the song unfortunately. I like your Rhodes progression in the beginning, it's cool, but I think those triplets kinda repeat a bit too much, and I probably wouldn't notice except in some key places, they cause a lot of dissonance where I would rather you followed the original chord progression instead. It's kinda like you're using a cool rhodes progression, established it in the intro for that jazzy effect, but there are key places in both the MM6 and MM3 sections of the melody where I'd rather you were sticking to the original progression of whatever melody you are playing. Here are some timestamps: 1:04 - I want that resolve 1:21 - Now I need that resolve 1:35+ - You're following the NeedleMan progression, but I hear those rhodes causing dissonance, in a place that IMO doesn't really need it, as in it's been established before and now it's time to do something different. 2:10 - You have a synth solo, I kinda feel like both the synth playing those panned stabs, in addition to the rhodes not really following w/ the melody progression is distracting from the melody. 3:12 - Wish it would resolve instead. Basically, what's bothering me is that those notes are so repetitive, they are all I am hearing in this song, and after a while I get aggravated lol. What I would really wish, is for some more intimate rhodes writing that follows w/ the Needleman and Mr. X progressions respectively, you can definitely keep the jazzy feel without repeating the same/similar motif. Centering in on the melodies you are featuring, and surrounding them w/ chords and rhythm that would beef them up IMO would improve this song a ton. Also some of the cymbals may be a little too loud or striking. I just think that yes, there is a groove going, and when you have a good groove going it's great, but there are times in this song where things need to change (like chord progression), and the groove keeps going, and then I'm no longer hearing the groove, I'm instead feeling a separation, like things aren't working together any longer. Sorry if I sound harsh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellanic Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I respect the shameless plug and also appreciate the feedback I do prefer the alternate ending version. Gario has pretty much said what I would say. It needs more change-ups or even a change down. Break-down the textures you have and give them the spotlight for a bit. Take some of the accompaniment bits out for a bit then bring them back in. If you are wanting more variation, vary the accompaniment parts, not just the leads. Having said that though, I think you could move the lead to different instruments. It switches between the same two instruments and their fairly similar in timbre. Perhaps move one into a different octave or ideally get a new instrument in there to take on the lead and give the others a break. Even in a chilled mix like this, you can have a build and release of tension. The production is really good on this and it has a fantastic feel. I'd say the biggest thing is again what Gario was saying. You need to have a bit of direction, use transistions between the sections or emphasize them more. Transitions may be short but they help lead the listener and give defiition to the structure. If you're having difficulty in coming up with a new lead instrument, layer some together. Layer the current lead with something else for some sections then take it away to give some variety. Its good stuff bud just keep doing more Edit: Monobrow replied just before I replied. Follow her advice and you won't go far wrong hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thanks to both of you! Monobrow - yeah I wrote that jazzy rhodes bit for the intro and then just kind of forgot about it. I got so focused on the other parts of the song that I couldn't hear the dissonance it was causing. Thanks for bringing it up tho, I'm going to to revisit that bit. And, no, you don't sound harsh, it's a big help! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Ok so here's an update: Smoother Operator v2 The update is on the alternate ending version since everyone seems to prefer that one. I changed: Fixed all those dissonant notes Monobrow spoke ok. Basically that rhodes part only plays in the intro and outro now for that jazzy effect. I replaced the other electric piano sample, this one has a bit more pizzazz. It also plays some more accompaniment parts throughout the song along with some F# minor chords that fit in with the Needle Man theme. The background synth (that is first heard in the intro) that is normally always moving, plays some hold notes now when other instruments are to reinforce the chord structure and to avoid unnecessary counterpoint. Lowered some of the harsh cymbal hits. Let me know what you guys think. I didn't too much about the static instrumentation that Gario & Lidawg mentioned because I'm having trouble figuring what, if anything, I want to do. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 NINJA UPDATE! Same link, just adjusted a few volume levels and re-wrote (again) the electric piano part in the solo section (1:38 - 2:10). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I did another minor update (same link). I, guess what, re-wrote a bit of the electric piano in the solo section again and added a few more chord hits throughout. And adjusted a few timing issues I noticed. I think I'm going to mark this thing as a mod review soon, unless I get some more feedback (talking with myself is getting a little boring). And I know someone is listening cause box.net is showing me access statistics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phonetic Hero Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Man I said I'd critique this a couple days ago, but I really don't think I'm fit to do it. I find myself distracted by the drums and like "yeah, that fits good there..." haha (although if you feel like the song would benefit from some drum changes, don't hesitate to bark at me). It could also be the fact that it's 5 AM and I need to go to bed. I'll give 'er another listen tomorrow, just thought I'd bump for EVERYONE ELSE in the WIP forum.. This thing is smooth, people pH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnetic Ether Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I liked this during the compo. Sounds even better now Not sure what else to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hey, I'm switching this thing over to a Mod Review because I'd like to get some additional feedback before I submit. I've addressed a lot of the concerns below, but I haven't gotten a lot else to move forward on. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillRock Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 MOD REVIEW I remember this from the WCRG Atm, you have Mixing issues, and overcompression problems, but I'd say the samples are pretty cool. The velocities on the drums need more variation tho, particularly on those rides. Some of the sounds don't seem to quite 100% mesh together either, you've got cool synths but I don't feel the bass and drums quite mesh with them texturally. Not that I think its a killer problem, just an observation. As for the arrangement, it seems pretty cool at a glance, but fix these production issues and i'll look in more depth at the arrangement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 So I cleaned up a few other EQ issues that were bugging me and I tried to address the overcompression issues Will stated with the bass drum. I think it sounds a bit cleaner now. I think I'm going to go ahead and sub this one unless another Mod would like to review! Thanks! Smooth Operator v5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Am I allowed to bump my own thread for another mod review please? I tried to clean up the mixing issues Will mentioned in his first mod review, but my ears may be deceiving me, so I was hoping for another listen before I sub! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 MOD Review: It looks like your instrument usage is greatly improved from when I first heard it (I recall there being a problem with instruments getting overused, which isn't apparent as in this version), so nice work on that. It still sounds like it meanders a little bit, but I don't think you'll be nailed for it - it kind of fits the style of the track. The arrangement is also pretty well done - enough source and a nice sassy jazz twist to it, overall. I'm going to have to say the instrument that comes in at 0:32 sounds needlessly thin, like you cut the lower and upper range entirely. It doesn't sound prominent, as it stands, when it's supposed to carry the main theme. When it's in the background it works fine, but when it's carrying important lines give it some more higher and lower mids (either by tweeking setting that you already made or adding an EQ to the instrument), since it just sounds empty, right now. Other than the thin instrument that's distracting me, I think the mixing is pretty well done. I would try to thicken out the lead I mentioned before if you can before subbing it, but other than that I believe you have a pretty good shot at the panel with this. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 mod rev: I don't mind the 0:32 lead, but I find the mid range of the track pretty empty. You have stuff playing in the mids, just bring those out a bit more, use the sustain pedal or a muffled delay or something to keep the notes around for a bit longer so they fill out the soundscape some more. That should also provide a little more meat so the drums and stuff don't stand out as much, I find them to be really distracting and messy. Just sort out what feedback you agree with and fix stuff, then sub it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorX Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Great, thanks so much guys, I appreciate the feedback! I'll make a few minor tweaks and then submit! Subbed on 1-31-11. Link in first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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