Forest of Purple Mist - Faron Woods from Zelda: Twilight Princess - Version 8

[Elder Kirby]

Thanks very much! That "bird" tweeting at exactly 2:19 is not a bird at all, but Link's "

," followed at 2:24 by Epona's whinny reply. I always like to add some sounds right from the game (although I made the Epona whistle myself, couldn't find a wav anywhere)

I can certainly add some hat fills, I'll look into that. Thanks for the kind words!

Ah of course! I haven't played Twilight Princess in years, I forgot everything.

I still think the whistle is out of place in the mix, though, despite being a clever addition.

I like the overall feeling of the mix, it has the same forest-ish mood than the original.

I'm not very fond of the strings intro, it just sounds dull IMO. Maybe with pizzicato strings it would sound better. The song gets a lot better when the horn-like instrument comes in.

Part starting at 0:50 is beautiful, the pad adds a lot. The snare could use some tweaking to sound a bit better though. Also, I think a ride cymbal would sound better than the closed hi-hat.

All the rest of the arrangement is quite nice, though the volume is a bit too low. The piano could use a volume boost in the small section where it plays. You could work a bit on the mixing of some instruments that are too low.

Now that jnWake brings it up, I see that the strings up until around 0:30 are very grotesque and in need of a replacement or change.

[Chimpazilla]

Well I like the whistle! Let's see if others do too. If the concensus is that it just sucks, I'll delete it.

As for the "grotesque" strings, you mean the detache strings, before the oboe begins? Do you just not care for the sample? We can switch that out.

edit: I'm having a friend record wavs of those strings using EWQL Hollywood Strings. (the string pad that follows is already recorded in Hollywood Strings) Should be good!

another edit: I appreciate these crits! But please be specific. "The snare could use some tweaking" means, what? Is it too woody? Too thick, thin? Pitchy? Tail too long/short? What tweaking do you mean? Also, "instruments too low" is probably a valid crit... but specifically which ones? I agree the piano is low and I love it so I'll bring it up some. I've been very careful to make sure the leads have their space... but if something is really too low, I'd love to know what exactly so I can fix it. Specifics are always more helpful than generalities! Thanks so much.

[Chimpazilla]

Forest of Purple Mist - mod review version 1

This song is finally ready for an official mod review!

Two areas of concern that I have for this version are:

1. the intro - it now contains 9 layers of strings! I think it sounds rich and full. Is it working?

2. the busy passage before the outro - I've carefully automated volumes so instruments each get a turn to play prominently (or somewhat so) before fading to the background. Is it still too busy, and if so, what do you recommend I do to thin it out? I love all those parts and don't want to delete any if I don't have to.

Any other suggestions to get this song submit-ready are greatly appreciated!

edit: source -

(just in case someone is unfamiliar with this track)

[tesselode]

This is a really cool arrangement. There are a few things I don't like so much, but those are purely a matter of taste and I'm not going to tell you what they are since you shouldn't change them. The only I thing I think you should change is making the flute at 1:15 louder. It's kind of getting overpowered by the other instruments.

[Calum]

I have a bit of a problem with the bass instrument. I'd definitely consider changing it to pizz cello or an upright bass sound. It's kinda making everything very muddy when it comes in. And the bass and low strings/pad are kinda not gelling well together with me. I love the nature sounds and the drums are a great improvement. I still feel overall that it's not 100% clean in terms of foregrounding and backgrounding instruments - it still all feels very at the front. And also that the arrangement is a little boring sounding to me harmonically... it stays on those two alternating chords (which only really get played in the bass + pad) for a really long time - i like the 2:00 section but feel the lead panpipe type thing could be better sequenced.

This is a crazy huge improvement from when I last heard it and I love to see two people put their strengths together to work on this track. Just my two cents on what i'd change. Good luck with the track.

[jnWake]

This is much better than the last version!

- I'm still not that fond of the strings of the intro, but I guess it's just me (I'd try with pizzicato though, just to see how it sounds).

- The first section with the "horn" works nice as a buildup and I love when the pad takes over, it creates a beautiful mood. I think the flute doesn't get overpowered, but maybe a different flute sound could be used, more like a pan flute. I get that kind of feeling from the arrangement.

- I like the mixing in the calm section that comes afterwards.

- I kind of miss the pad in the repetition of the main theme...

- Regarding the bass sound. I have no problem with it, but maybe you could try a fretless bass? It usually fits with songs like this one.

Overall, pretty good. I like the forest-ish mood and I think you did a great job with the mixing.

[Rozovian]

Levels mixing seems a bit weird, the bird ambience and the drums in the intro are way louder than any melodic elements there.

There's a bright plucked or struck string instrument that sound dry and mechanical, some velocity-sensitive filtering in the sampler and more reverb (while it's in the background at least) should soften it more.

Bass is loud. Actually, the whole low range is loud. Balanced is better than bassy. Interestingly, these clear, contrasty instruments would work well on their own, as would the softer instrumentation, but they don't complement each other well like this. Bring some more brightness to the oboe and soften the overly clear stuff for a more cohesive sound.

Some transitions are a bit weird. The transition into the 1:21 break doesn't flow. The one out of it is cool, tho.

Ending piano is way louder than the oboe. This is the kind of levels mixing that's been off through much of the track.

It's got groove, it's got source. Its main problems are the mixing and some details in the writing. I think the arrangement works, just gotta fix the details.

[Chimpazilla]

Thanks so much Rozo. I knew you would be able to help with levels and mixing. I was concerned about the bass myself, now I will work to rein it in.

Would you mind telling me precisely where you hear the problem with the plucked thing, so I know exactly which thing you are talking about? (I think it is my Omnisphere "glass segovia" which is a nylon guitar hybrid, but I want to be sure) And I believe this instrument is also guilty of the "overly clear" comment?

And should we keep this on mod review until I am done with these fixes, or change back to wip, or how should we do that? (I don't want to be a mod review hog, haha!)

Thanks again!

edit: back to wip status for now. Rozo, I hope it is ok if I ping you again when the changes have been made. Really want to go all the way with this one!

[Rozovian]

While there's nothing wrong with leaving your track on mod review for other mods to chime in, if you need another mod review for it within a week, you're using mod review wrong. Put it back on mod review when you've made substantial changes to it and have cleared your ears enough to more objectively evaluate it yourself. If all you need is a go-ahead after... say, some humanization edits or changing reverbs or something, you should be using your friends' and your own ears.

That's my thoughts on mod review, goes for everyone using it.

Anyway... no. To be concise and quotable: if it fits the crits, fix it. If more than one part of the track fits the crits, you've got more than one part of the track to fix. You can't fix something you can't hear yourself, so my sort'a lazy kind'a vague crits might do you and your listening skills a lot of good.

That said, I'm not surprised if an OS patch is at fault. When I started using OS, I had a lot of trouble making it work with my previous instrumentation, and still sometimes find myself working towards a middle ground between its and Absynth's advanced sounds, and the more simple stuff in Logic and FM8.

[Chimpazilla]

OK Rozo, I gotcha. Will do.

I'm finding in Omnisphere that although the sounds are amazing by themselves, often I'm having to totally delete effects and turn of half of the patch each time. Haha! Well I still love it. (I just got Komplete 8, too... whoopee!)

[Elder Kirby]

Besides what rozo already mentioned, I feel like that hihat is way too apparent everywhere.

Try lowering it and have that shaker come through some more.

I really like this mix so far

[Chimpazilla]

Thanks EK, I'll check that out. I'm going to post it here one more time shortly, for a few final opinions... it's nearly ready to sub I think.

[Pl511]

This sounds so full, and so rich! You really made a huge texture with this. It's also surprisingly calming. I think some of the sound effects might be a bit much, but nothing is overly intrusive and most of them heighten the ambient sound during those sections. One thing I have to say though - and this is probably just because I play piano - the line around 3:10 doesn't work so well with the piano soundfont. It sounds a bit too sharp and not gentle enough to match the rest of the mix. Maybe turn all the velocities in that section down by maybe 10%? Other than that, I love this so much. :3 My favourite part is... well, basically all of it. You did an amazing job with giving the piece energy. Keep up the awesome work!

[Chimpazilla]

Yes PI511, you certainly DO play piano!!! (and I'm wishing you a huge success with your recently submitted track!) Thanks for that tip, I'll lower the velocity in that section. I've got a few more fixes to do, then one more post here. Thanks for the kind words!

[Chimpazilla]

Forest of Purple Mist - possible submission version

OK friends... this will be the submission version unless someone can point out a real dealbreaker! Any fine-tuning mixing crits would be appreciated... writing is completely finished. Thanks, and wish us luck!

[ad.mixx]

You've got a cool, unique style here.

I just want to pop in to mention that at around 1:40, those bell like instruments (it might just be the piano) are getting a bit too bright and distracting. They're in the my right ear. Maybe EQ them or change the volume a bit. Also, nobody else mentioned this so I guess it's not a big deal, but I was never a fan of the choice of the oboe. Something about the instrument / mixing is bothering me, but I don't know what.

All the other instruments sound cool, the oboe just sounds off to me. Not sure why. Probably not that big of a deal, though.

[Chimpazilla]

Thanks so much... will fix those bells... ah the oboe *darnit*... it has been a sticky point because it is a real sample layered with a soundfont, and the soundfont is the weak link but must stay because the other samples drop out on the low notes. I'll have to try to improve the overall timbre... any suggestions to try?

[ad.mixx]

It'd be good if someone else suggested something along with this. If a real instrument isn't working for me, I usually just cheeze it and replace it with a synth. It could work here, but that kind of recommendation imo is messing with your creativity in the piece.

Maybe try layering it with a similar sounding instrument or flute? Then EQ whatever frequencies sound out of place and let the other instrument deal with those.

That's what I would do personally.

[Chimpazilla]

If you could describe specifically what sounds "off," that would help (I know that can be tough to do). Too much/little of any particular frequency?

I've already tweaked this sooooooo much... played with eq, effects, extra reverb, etc. I want it to sound like it does, but GOOD. I'm just now playing around with some mild compression and may have it sounding a tad better...

[ad.mixx]

You know, I was listening to this a little more, and I think it honestly might be that I just don't like the instrument all that much. But that's a good thing because that's just personal preference.

The best way I can describe it is just sticks out to much when compared to all the other instruments. But I kept listening to your arrangement to figure out why I don't like it and I think that it's just me. If someone else happens to mention something, then try something, but I don't think you have to worry about it as is. In this type of piece I would assume the lead instrument should stick out, anyways.

Guess those last two posts were pointless then, but do fix the bells panned right at 1:40

[Chimpazilla]

It was a vibraphone, and it has now been tamed, thanks!

Sorry you don't like the oboe... I love it, it is what initially drew me to Jordan's song. I can push it back with some more reverb... Rozo said it needed more brightness... arg, I don't know what to do with it to make everybody happy... I guess I'll just strive to make myself and Jordan happy.

And no, not pointless... I appreciate it.

[Eino Keskitalo]

Overall the tune is pleasant and light. It also reminds me of some of Rexy's work, especially on the Tales project album. That's a good thing.

The intro is really nice, but it transitions to the rest of the tune awkwardly. The intro has a really happy major feel, and the rest of the track is more mysterious. This is a fine combination, but the 00:42-00:51 bit which sounds decidedly minor sticks out, especially the oboe note around 00:42-00:43 sounds very out of line. Structurally, that part feels like its stalling the song from properly starting. You could simply cut it and get into the meat of the track sooner. I'd suggest trying to cut from 00:40 to 00:50 or so, with a little lead-in fill. The main melodic hook is great right after the intro (this is what's there right now, but it detours in to the "minor" section after).

The writing is good in general. It's a bit unfocused. The solo piano end sounds kind of random for instance, there's lots of notes but not really a memorable hook or something like that I wish the piece left me with. I kind of feel the parts are sometimes needlessly busy elsewhere in the mix too, but it's not a huge issue all in all. The ending does irk me tough.

The bass, in the most of the track, is pretty static and a little overpowering. The exception is the intro. You could use rests in the rest of the song too. There are neat little variations in the bassline throughout the song, no mistake about that - and it doesn't need to go all over the place. Placing a few rests in the writing and mixing it a little lower where it is its loudest would help a lot.

The oboe could perhaps use a little bit of rests, staccato, rhythmical activity here and there. It probably helps it feel less "fake" and makes for good variation.

I think the bass being overpowering and the awkward structure towards the beginning are the main issues. My favourite part is the middle "breather" section, the piece eases into it incredibly well. It's like it slips into it without you really noticing it at first. This adds to the mysterious quality of the track.

--Eino

[Emunator]

Hey all, just wanted to drop a line and let everybody know that I've been talking with Kristina and I'm gonna be hijacking this track again and hopefully bringing the production/sequencing up to par so this can hopefully pass the panel. I'm super-excited to be working on this track, I love the arrangement to death and hopefully I'll be able to bring the production up to standards

Among the edits I have planned are redoing the string/oboe samples, potentially working with the drums, adding an acoustic bassline, and maybe tweaking with the overall production a little bit more too. Can't wait to get started!!