Seiken Densetsu 3: Songs of Light and Darkness - History

[Level 99]

If there's anything in my experience on this site involving projects has taught me, it's that the whole "sooner or later" thing doesn't really apply to projects. Yes, the OCR quality bar has been stable for some time, but albums that span multitudes of years run the risk of having the older arrangements, which might have been passable back when they were completed, not aging well and slipping in the quality department in relation to more recent tracks. It's also just generally no fun having finished a track in 2010 or so and then having that song wait umpteen years to be released (I'm no stranger to this, although I can understand there as some situations where there's not much of a choice).

A few months is fine, but once you get into the years department it becomes more of an issue. That being said, this is just me trying to give good advice and in no way commanding you to finish this ASAP. With the album so close to completion, why not just push for it and reach closure on this monstrosity of an album? (monstrosity used for sheer size and completeness)

I've heard a lot of the tracks on this already, and there's a lot of great stuff here. I'm just anxious for it to finally be done.

I am secretly just waiting for this to be submitted for eval so I can NO the everloving shit out of it lol JK

[Meteo Xavier]

A few months is fine, but once you get into the years department it becomes more of an issue. That being said, this is just me trying to give good advice and in no way commanding you to finish this ASAP. With the album so close to completion, why not just push for it and reach closure on this monstrosity of an album

For the same reason I can't sprout wings to avoid traffic and get to work quicker.

This project took years to complete because that's how long it's taking to complete. Do you think we wanted it that way? No. We kept telling you guys to get your tracks in and contact us, and guess what, we had to wait. You guys wouldn't write us back, or we couldn't find you, or your computer blew up, or you were on a different project or something much more serious happened in real life.

We exhausted the amount of available remixers from this site before we were 60% done. I had to go to Gamedev and round up a bunch of talent to get us further up (smartest decision I've made yet on this website). I also refused to remix further simply to get more tracks out of available status for fear of coming off vain and desperate. Our project deserves better than that. In the meantime, I've worked to get much better talent than myself on them, and working to get good PR and marketing ideas in place for when we get to the stage where we start spreading the word beforehand.

We've not been lazy in getting this out, but you can't get blood from a turnip. (EDIT: Took this part out. Was thinking emotionally instead of logically). Rozovian and I and everyone on here was worked pretty damn hard, but we had a LOT of complications to get there, and our options are to either rush it out to satisfy impatience, or we justify your long wait and everyone's work by releasing it the way God intended.

You want the project finished quicker? No problem, volunteer for the following:

- Hype this project up. Anywhere and everywhere. Get some real energy and excitement going for it.

- Help us with finding and securing more PR connections that will cover SD3 when the project comes out. Bonus points if you can get Kotaku (hell, I might even give you some $ for that if you pull it off).

- Remixing any track currently in green. We take and publish doubles.

- Offer mastering for the tracks.

- Help us out with our video/trailer work.

- Get Hiroki Kikuta to friggin' write me back already.

- Help me redo that "Long Goodbye" remix I have that is in dire need of update, but I just can't get enough time and resources to do it right.

- Probably a bunch of other shit I can't remember at this moment.

You might be saying, "wait, ain't that YOUR job to do all that?", no, not really. We're just organizers. This isn't a "Rozovian and Meteo X" production, it's an Ocremix Community production. He who takes the credit also takes the responsibility, and each person who works on it has as much a responsibility to help get it done as much as anyone else.

Don't want to do it? Fine, but don't hold your breath for it and tell us to get it done at the same time either (that's physically impossible too).

Edited July 29, 2013 by Meteo Xavier

[Pavos]

You are, of course, free to do what you want, but I disagree with some things of your previous statement. I'm not telling you what to do and I don't want to start an arugment or anything, but just hear me out.

We kept telling you guys to get your tracks in and contact us, and guess what, we had to wait. You guys wouldn't write us back, or we couldn't find you, or your computer blew up, or you were on a different project or something much more serious happened in real life.

Telling people to contact you without any consequences for them diesn't help. And sure, it would be a shame if you lost some people, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices if it's otherwise going to negatively influence the rest of the project. Like Stevo said, the finished tracks aren't getting any younger and stalling them will only make them sound old. The most activity (I think) the project had was when Rozo set up some deadlines and kicked some people (including me) out. It's too bad that it has to be that way, but that's how you get people to work. zircon did the same thing with the FF6 project and you can't say that that was a bad album. You just have to draw a line somewhere.

We exhausted the amount of available remixers from this site before we were 60% done. I had to go to Gamedev and round up a bunch of talent to get us further up (smartest decision I've made yet on this website).

I don't think that's true, but I do think all of the projects combined exhausted the remixers. And if you WERE to run out of mixers, wouldn't that be more reason to say "hey, let's drop three tracks and make sure this thing gets released"?

We've not been lazy in getting this out, but you can't get blood from a turnip. I don't mean to come off like an asshole, but your lack of insight is something I will take umbrage with (and I won't use your experience as a testament considering how Rosenkreuz is playing out). Rozovian and I and everyone on here was worked pretty damn hard, but we had a LOT of complications to get there, and our options are to either rush it out to satisfy impatience, or we justify your long wait and everyone's work by releasing it the way God intended.

Really? You accuse Stevo of lack of insight? You know with how many projects he has helped right? You can ignore his experience if you want, but he's not the only one that has had this problem. I know you guys are not lazy, because running a project takes a lot of time and even more effort. But saying that, when you push for the final milestone, is to "rush it out to satisfy inpatience" is wrong in my opinion. Making a decision for a (hypothetical) final cut-off date for the end of September will not decrease the quality of the rest of the album. It's only four songs now, are those really worth to delay the album for many months?

- Hype this project up. Anywhere and everywhere. Get some real energy and excitement going for it.

OCR has got an enormous hype-machine. Everyone following their twitter, facebook, mailing list, whatever will get a message to repost the album in some way. I think this is covered.

- Help us with finding and securing more PR connections that will cover SD3 when the project comes out. Bonus points if you can get Kotaku (hell, I might even give you some $ for that if you pull it off).

Same deal, when OCR gets their press release out, many sites will publish it (including kotaku: http://kotaku.com/tag/ocremix)

- Remixing any track currently in green. We take and publish doubles.

This will be taken care of by putting pressure on the mixers I think. And saying that you will take doubles or that anybody can still work on any track they want only decreases that pressure in my opinion. And still, not EVERY track needs to be mixed if it means delaying this for another year right? You've got already so many great mixes on this album, don't delay them infintely all for the hope of a maximum of four more.

- Help us out with our video/trailer work.

Have you asked José if he can do it? I know that Chernabogue also makes trailers (he made our BadAss 2 one), so you can ask him

- Get Hiroki Kikuta to friggin' write me back already.

- Help me redo that "Long Goodbye" remix I have that is in dire need of update, but I just can't get enough time and resources to do it right.

- Probably a bunch of other shit I can't remember at this moment.

Seems not essential for finishing this project.

All in all, I think you are way closer than you think you are, you just have to give that final push. Set deadlines, for yourself and for the mixers. Get a trailer made (there are people here who can do that) and work with OCR to get the promotion stuff done. Again, I don't want to step on your toes and if you want to do it your way, just go ahead. It's your project after all. BUT, if you want to to finish quickly, there's a better method than what you're doing now I think. And if you guys think you don't have the time to make that final push, ask someone that does.

[Meteo Xavier]

Telling people to contact you without any consequences for them diesn't help. And sure, it would be a shame if you lost some people, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices if it's otherwise going to negatively influence the rest of the project. Like Stevo said, the finished tracks aren't getting any younger and stalling them will only make them sound old. The most activity (I think) the project had was when Rozo set up some deadlines and kicked some people (including me) out. It's too bad that it has to be that way, but that's how you get people to work. zircon did the same thing with the FF6 project and you can't say that that was a bad album. You just have to draw a line somewhere.

Rozovian and I discussed dropping tracks at length and we just couldn't justify it. It frustrated me for a long time as well, but it reached a point where we got in some INSANELY awesome tracks VERY late in the production, so there was precedent that not completing the project just to get it complete had an objective bottom line benefit. Some of these tracks we got in are so good I'm ashamed that I campaigned for the same thing you are.

I don't think that's true, but I do think all of the projects combined exhausted the remixers. And if you WERE to run out of mixers, wouldn't that be more reason to say "hey, let's drop three tracks and make sure this thing gets released"?

No. See above please.

Really? You accuse Stevo of lack of insight? You know with how many projects he has helped right? You can ignore his experience if you want, but he's not the only one that has had this problem. I know you guys are not lazy, because running a project takes a lot of time and even more effort. But saying that, when you push for the final milestone, is to "rush it out to satisfy inpatience" is wrong in my opinion. Making a decision for a (hypothetical) final cut-off date for the end of September will not decrease the quality of the rest of the album. It's only four songs now, are those really worth to delay the album for many months?

Yeah, I went too far there with Stevo and I'll remove those comments here when I get a chance. I was just incensed that it looked like he was pulling rank to make some quick shots at our production cycle, which we could do nothing about. I'll edit that here soon.

You have to remember we DID do all that consequence and cut-off date shit already. It didn't work out as well for us, so we abandoned it for a model that did.

OCR has got an enormous hype-machine. Everyone following their twitter, facebook, mailing list, whatever will get a message to repost the album in some way. I think this is covered.

Well, I don't see anyone talking about it NOW other than here. We need to generate that shit in advance, but this isn't FFVI, so we don't have legions of people salivating for it. We need people here helping to generate some of that to start with and thats something that you could help us with.

Same deal, when OCR gets their press release out, many sites will publish it (including kotaku: http://kotaku.com/tag/ocremix)

Oh cool, I didn't know about that.

This will be taken care of by putting pressure on the mixers I think. And saying that you will take doubles or that anybody can still work on any track they want only decreases that pressure in my opinion. And still, not EVERY track needs to be mixed if it means delaying this for another year right? You've got already so many great mixes on this album, don't delay them infintely all for the hope of a maximum of four more.

Again, see above. Not trying to be asinine there, just this topic keeps getting repeated.

Seems not essential for finishing this project.

EDIT: The previous section here has changed.

So all that, yes, IS, or was, essential.

The last thing there was the same as before, so I don't need to repeat it.

If you have any further questions or comments, I'd be happy to keep the discussion going.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Meteo Xavier

[Meteo Xavier]

Additionally, please remember that neither Rozovian or I actually started this project, we just volunteered our way to the positions we're in now when everyone else left. This isn't OUR vision we're trying to create, it's the original vision we're trying to uphold. We both feel we have no artistic right or authority to do anything to that other than help make it happen (at least I believe that's what Rozovian told me at some point).

We've already come this far, let's not compromise the whole original intent and artistic vision just to shave off some time.

[Pavos]

Thanks for your lengthy and helpful answer. About the hype-machine: when this project reaches eval, it'll still be several months before it gets released (due to the many projects in line). So I don't know if you want to fire up the hype-machine already. Aside from that, kudo's for directing this for as long as you have and good luck with the finishing touches.

[Phonetic Hero]

Archangel, Phonetic Hero, Jormungand and I have tracks that aren't finished yet. Once they're done, we're handing over this behemoth to project eval. Until they're done, there's still time to fiddle with your tracks, in case there was something you weren't quite satisfied with, or otherwise wanted to change.

I'm certainly one of the offenders here; I'm really sorry, I've just been insanely busy for the past.. hell, the past year now or so. I'm doing my best and things are ALMOST there to where I can comfortably finish my mix. It's very important to me that I work on this one when I can do it without stressing about it and trying to pound something out, because that's how I can get you all the best product. Prioritizing sucks, and I feel awful about having to push some things off to the side for the past few months, but I've been busy teaching/writing for drumlines for a huge part of the summer, working on the soundtracks for 2 games (which has the potential to further my career, and so I must put them first, unfortunately), as well as more than a couple other high-priority projects. It's not like I'm just sitting on my hands, waiting for the track to magically finish itself

Hopefully I'll be able to hit it again this week, there's not a whole lot left. Hopefully I'm able to get finished up pretty soon, I made tons of headway last time I tackled it, and it started going in a cool new direction. This is the sort of thing that happens when I stew on what I've got for a while, so fret not! I'm making sure my track will be the best it can be

[Meteo Xavier]

Well this was expected, but oh my GOD how frustrating.

Got all my old software loaded up finally and, guess what, half the instruments still won't load. Kontakt 5 gave me a bullshit error, can't find a .wav sample, z3ta 2? Really? It's right there!

Fuck, I REALLY don't have time to redo this all over again. Fuck. I'll figure something out.

[Brandon Strader]

Stop holding up the album Meteo GAWWWSSHH

[Meteo Xavier]

You said it, Strade.

Well, I was able to get PLAY and Z3ta working, it might just be the pianos I have to replace and redo which... still not looking forward to that, but could be worse.

Also this morning I came up with a possibility for how to redo the Long Goodbye remix that could be relatively simple and work as a decent, subtle and dignified ending coda.

So something resembling progress at least.

Edit: Yeah, it looks like I just lost the pianos. Not going to be fun to fix, but better than starting over. Maybe a blessing in disguise as this track really could use some more work. I'll try to get on that as soon as I can.

Edit 2: Hey, got one of my pianos back on it! Excellent, maybe this will be easier than I thought.

I doubled the pianos for thickness and sound support.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Meteo Xavier

[Pavos]

Just started to play SD3 since I never fully played the game. Let's see who finishes first

[Meteo Xavier]

I lent my cans to my brother for a little bit as my 8th weekend crunch meant I was going to have little if any serious time to work on it. Could be a close finish.

[Meteo Xavier]

Almost finished with my redo for LONG GOODBYE. I'm going in an entirely different direction with this and making it a slow, pleasant, orchestral coda-kinda track. Not epic and not award-winning, but a pleasant come-down track after all the big epicness of the project.

It was highly inspired by this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZpcyYVRoAo.

Need Rozovian to PM me so I can hear back from you on them, mang.

[Orion]

sd3 has become a fav of mine. Very excited to check this project out. I suppose it's too late to request a track for the project eh? I might make one anyway for the hell of it.

[Meteo Xavier]

If it's in green, go for it.

[Meteo Xavier]

YES! My redo of Long Goodbye is finished!

And, I hope I don't jinx myself here, I think its probably one of the best mixed and least problematic remixes I've ever done. Strings still don't sound 100% or probably even 90% realistic, but I think you guys will enjoy the end product all the same. A nice and pleasant comedown after so much epicness.

[Rozovian]

I'm back. Drama complaints. Yes we're slow. We're sitting on some great stuff though. Check out the preview for a tiny fraction of what we've got. I've got more previews in the plans, it's just no point in starting to screw with those until we're a little further along. As in, four or five or the remaining four or five tracks completed, maybe?

Orion, people are still free to grab whatever tracks they want. We've got a few unfinished tracks that we know of, and if any last-minute additions drops by in a good enough shape to be included, we'll include them. Read the first post, PM with any questions, whatever.

Word of advice for any new mixes: We already have two remixes of a few sources, I would suggest you don't primarily use those sources for your remix. We're still open to new tracks, we just don't want this to become "SD3: The Mostly Angel's Fear Album".

Responding to ppl's PMs now.

[Meteo Xavier]

We're still open to new tracks, we just don't want this to become "SD3: The Mostly Angel's Fear Album".

But maybe we could do that as a side-bonus album?

[Brandon Strader]

You should not be open to new tracks at this point.

[Rozovian]

You should not be open to new tracks at this point.

Yes we should, we just shouldn't slow down the project for their sake. Which we won't.

[Meteo Xavier]

YES! My other track is finally finished and good to go! ALL the music tracks with my name on them are finished and I am one happy aspie sumbitch!

Hit me up, Roz, you need this new .WAV I've got.

[Meteo Xavier]

Edit: Heard back from Rozovian.

I'm going to be checking in on our last outliers for the project.

That means you Pete and Jaka. And Rozovian too.

Any other business going on we need to know about?

EDIT:

Or, better yet, does any one have any additional contacts in their network of places we can contact for PR and more support? We have a bunch of places already, but you can never have enough! Let's not wait to hype this baby up, let's get some groundwork started there too.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Meteo Xavier

[Rozovian]

Meteo's new versions are in, and they're great. Anyone else have any updates/revisions/redos/updates/bribes/wavs?

[Meteo Xavier]

Some good news showed up in my Gmail regarding the project today, but it might be premature to tell you what it is. Need to wait a few days apparently, but YES!

[Phonetic Hero]

Meteo's new versions are in, and they're great. Anyone else have any updates/revisions/redos/updates/bribes/wavs?

I will in the next week. I'm working to get Sonic CD wrapped up and then it's SD3 all the way