Video Game Composer Myths

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Today, I was reading about various different composers after I found an alphabetical list of people who have wrote music for games. What I discovered is that most people who are known or remembered as "video game composers" have actually only composed music for just a few games. Like, 3 - 5 average.

I've heard that these people make lots of money, but personally, I very much doubt that doing just that many games is enough to live on and last you your entire career...I know that guys like Tommy Tallarico have made many game soundtracks, but very few people are Tallarico or Inon Zur.

How much does the average professional composer get paid, and how many titles would they have to score to make a living at creating only game music?

[Rozovian]

I thought this thread was gonna be "The Fat Man has a guitar made of horse bones" or "Motoi Sakuraba did a little dance before sitting down to write or mix".

I am disappoint.

[jnWake]

I thought this thread was gonna be "The Fat Man has a guitar made of horse bones" or "Motoi Sakuraba did a little dance before sitting down to write or mix".

I am disappoint.

Lol I was expecting the same thing.

The questions asked are interesting though

[Garpocalypse]

Here is a popular myth that i'm going to debunk right now.

Back in the 90's Yuzo Koshiro supposedly copied out some of his favorite dance rhythms from American and European pop music while working on the Streets of Rage soundtrack then copyrighted the music as his own.

See? Complete myth. Next topic.

[Nabeel Ansari]

You're not really looking at this correctly.

Being a professional composer means you compose to sustain yourself from the income. You're not a professional when you score a certain number of titles, you're a professional when your composing is sustaining you financially.

A video game composer is someone who's done music for a video game, whether it be a free, indie or AAA game.

You're looking at it as a number of titles, but it's not that at all.

It depends on how much each developer pays you for the project. For instance: I was taking to an OCR game composer once, and he hasn't done many titles, but a recent title he did sustained him financially for about half a year. If you continually do projects, you can keep going with that as your sole income. It's not a set wage for a lot of people.

It's a contract thing more than an "I hire you to do game music" thing. If I do a AAA game that lands me tons of money, I'm not going to need to be doing as many games as another guy who hasn't gotten that much for his projects.

[Phonetic Hero]

Also, most "game composers" might be remembered for their game music, but in all likelihood, they're composing for other mediums as well. Commercials, TV shows, film projects, solo work, live shows, etc... That doesn't have to be their only source of income

[AngelCityOutlaw]

You're not really looking at this correctly.

Being a professional composer means you compose to sustain yourself from the income. You're not a professional when you score a certain number of titles, you're a professional when your composing is sustaining you financially.

I disagree completely. Just as one does not need to draw for a living to draw at a professional level, one does not need to make music for a living to be just as good as a professional musician.

Professional is the quality of your work, not the paycheck you receive for it. OCR has many professional level tracks being given away for free by people who are only into music as a hobby. Obviously, a professional game company isn't going to hire a composer who they don't feel can make pro-grade music.

[Phonetic Hero]

I disagree completely. Just as one does not need to draw for a living to draw at a professional level, one does not need to make music for a living to be just as good as a professional musician.

Well, kinda by definition being "a professional X" means you make money doing that thing. You don't necessarily have to sustain yourself by it, but the fact that you make money by doing it is what makes someone a professional. Writing at a professional level is kind of a different thing too, because you can be a composer hobbyist and not get paid a penny for your work.

Professionalism and expertise are different things

[DrumJ8]

How much does the average professional composer get paid, and how many titles would they have to score to make a living at creating only game music?

I think the range is so widespread that the "average" would be hard to pinpoint. I know many composers get paid per minute of music delivered. An old teacher of mine said he got paid like $200 per minute of music that he wrote for a game, and that's considered "low." If you deliver 5 full minutes of music at $200/min, that's a decent chunk of change (at least EYE think so), unless you're doing a project of that size only once every 6 months. Big time composers for AAA titles could potentially make, e.g. $600 per minute of music delivered, and in a big game that requires over 100 minutes of music, that's a lotta money. Not to mention because they're already writing for a big title, they've proven at that point that they do good work, are reliable and responsible, so that reputation will garner similar projects of that caliber.

If a composer wrote music for one big game in 1985, they probably moved on to other stuff; I highly doubt they're still living off the money earned from it.

[EC2151]

Case in point: all the famous personal computer-era composers like Tim Follin, Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, Jon Dunn, etc. etc. Of course back in the 80s composers were much less of a big deal, in a sense.

[The Derrit]

You're not really looking at this correctly.

Being a professional composer means you compose to sustain yourself from the income. You're not a professional when you score a certain number of titles, you're a professional when your composing is sustaining you financially.

A video game composer is someone who's done music for a video game, whether it be a free, indie or AAA game.

You're looking at it as a number of titles, but it's not that at all.

It depends on how much each developer pays you for the project. For instance: I was taking to an OCR game composer once, and he hasn't done many titles, but a recent title he did sustained him financially for about half a year. If you continually do projects, you can keep going with that as your sole income. It's not a set wage for a lot of people.

It's a contract thing more than an "I hire you to do game music" thing. If I do a AAA game that lands me tons of money, I'm not going to need to be doing as many games as another guy who hasn't gotten that much for his projects.

you're becoming more and more like your brother every day

go get em, champ

[lazygecko]

Case in point: all the famous personal computer-era composers like Tim Follin, Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, Jon Dunn, etc. etc. Of course back in the 80s composers were much less of a big deal, in a sense.

C64 composers were such a big deal that they'd put their names on the box art to help sell the games.

[EC2151]

My bad then.

[Moomba]

I disagree completely. Just as one does not need to draw for a living to draw at a professional level, one does not need to make music for a living to be just as good as a professional musician.

Professionalism != being a professional.

I prefer my original expectations for this thread so I'll contribute along those lines.

This barely classes as a video game myth, but rumour still has it that Gabriela Robin is secretly Kanno Yoko.

[EC2151]

Chris Hulsbeck is such a huge fan of

that he

/myth

[Nabeel Ansari]

@AngelCityOutlaw: Professional has nothing to do with your quality or skill. Don't argue opinionated ideals against actual facts.

pro·fes·sion·al

   [pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Show IPA

adjective

1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.

3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.

4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.

5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.

When you say OCR has many "professional level" tracks, you're actually referring to the fact that the quality is similar to that of people who successfully have music composition or production as a profession.

[SonicThHedgog]

Neble nailed this thread in 1 posts.

-Air3s

*A wild hedgog out his habitat thread? rare*

[AngelCityOutlaw]

When you say OCR has many "professional level" tracks, you're actually referring to the fact that the quality is similar to that of people who successfully have music composition or production as a profession.

Touché.....

[Benjamin Briggs]

yeah, like everyone said, it all depends on the project, who's involved in it, who the composer is hired by, and how much money they have to make the game

for example, I helped with the soundtrack for an independent film (not a game, but whatever), and I only got 70 bucks for about 4 minutes of music, or 3 tracks

however, I just started working with a game company on a non-indie title, and I'm getting paid over 300 per track

it varies wildly, and while I still have a dayjob, I've heard that it's not always easy to stay afloat being JUST a composer.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

yeah, like everyone said, it all depends on the project, who's involved in it, who the composer is hired by, and how much money they have to make the game

for example, I helped with the soundtrack for an independent film (not a game, but whatever), and I only got 70 bucks for about 4 minutes of music, or 3 tracks

however, I just started working with a game company on a non-indie title, and I'm getting paid over 300 per track

it varies wildly, and while I still have a dayjob, I've heard that it's not always easy to stay afloat being JUST a composer.

Nice! Congrats on the non-indie title.

The most I've ever made with music was about 120 per tune to create MIDI scores for an indie game. Personally, I think I was being paid too well.

Here's a question for you specifically Chthonic, would you actually want to be a full-time composer?

I mean, I love music just as much as anybody, but I think if I could be able write music full-time and do nothing else I'd probably go insane. I'd have to like, work part-time or do volunteer stuff at least. Unless I had a whole bunch of different things I was doing with music like touring with some band, composing and perhaps something else too.

[Benjamin Briggs]

yes, I would have no problem writing music as my "full-time job"

for me it's about time management and deadlines. I've proven to myself over and over again that I can meet deadlines, so I don't see any reason to fear taking on a lot of them if I don't have to waste 40 hours a week at some crappy day job

but these gigs aren't exactly flooding in, so I haven't quit my day job yet.

[Dhsu]

1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

Note the "or for gain." You don't need to be full-time to be a professional composer. "Professional" in this context is generally used in contrast to "amateur," i.e. someone who does something for free.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Note the "or for gain." You don't need to be full-time to be a professional composer. "Professional" in this context is generally used in contrast to "amateur," i.e. someone who does something for free.

Did I say full-time? That wasn't the intention. For example, I would consider zircon a professional, but composing isn't his only income. (sample libraries, licensing, teaching, etc.)

In most cases I think of a distinction between professional and semi-professional (the former being the sole income source) but in this specific definition it's just professional or not.

Besides, I don't think the term "full-time" really applies to freelance composing projects. They're kinda more "my time" than "full-time".

[Meteo Xavier]

but these gigs aren't exactly flooding in, so I haven't quit my day job yet.

Don't ever quit your day job. Music for musicians who don't make nearly 6 figures a year doing music becomes more and more of a hobby is what I'm seeing. Day jobs suck, but they're good for you.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Don't ever quit your day job. Music for musicians who don't make nearly 6 figures a year doing music becomes more and more of a hobby is what I'm seeing. Day jobs suck, but they're good for you.

My philosophy has become "get a day job that doesn't suck". That's why I'm going back to school next year.

I don't see why I can't be a musician/actor/magician AND archaeologist. The more things you do, and the more professions you have, the more interesting life becomes. In my opinion anyway.