zircon Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Could only stomach two minutes of that one. It's funny that Anita's videos and views are so offensive to people that they have to attack her personally. And what a surprise, it's primarily male gamers that have a problem with her, since they are the ones being challenged. When people disagree with Extra Credits videos I don't see people picking up James Portnow's master thesis or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Make a substantive point and maybe I'll answer you. my point is that it doesn't really seem as though you've played any mario games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Bleck, I'm with Ab on this one. If you have a point to make, don't half-ass your posts and instead actually write an argument. If you think Ab is missing something about Mario games, then write out what you think he's missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 When people disagree with Extra Credits videos I don't see people picking up James Portnow's master thesis or whatever. If it didn't have many issues/problems then it wouldn't make sense to pick that out - people only tug on what they can take advantage of. While Brushfire's video targets Feminist Frequency aggressively, I didn't think the points he made were off, providing that they're true (won't make that assumption, myself, nor do I care to do the research). No matter the side, my personal pet peeve is when someone shuts down reasonable argument in one form or another, which while I haven't had any arguments with Anita personally I do have experience with other feminists who do just that (argumentum ad nausum, ad hominum attacks, just plain ignoring, blocking, censoring, etc.), so I can feel where he comes from. He did say that he didn't like Extra-Credit, though, which knocks him down a peg or two, in my book. Either way, I do hope Anika shapes up her presentation style, as it's flat and bland, as it stands. More gestures, more interest, less monotone - I kid you not, that annoys me more than any heavy handed feminist tone (which I'd expect from someone that runs a YT channel called 'Feminist Frequency'). With a budget of 150k$, show the viewers that you care about them a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I want you to argue with me! I didn't come in here with anything to argue. doneseriouslyyoudontreadanythinganyonesays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecilff2 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Bleck, I'm with Ab on this one. If you have a point to make, don't half-ass your posts and instead actually write an argument. If you think Ab is missing something about Mario games, then write out what you think he's missing. I think he's referring to bowser's motivation for capturing peach is because he wants to rule the mushroom kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I think he's referring to bowser's motivation for capturing peach is because he wants to rule the mushroom kingdom. shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab56 v2 aka Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I think he's referring to bowser's motivation for capturing peach is because he wants to rule the mushroom kingdom. I've played just about every main franchise Mario game except Yoshi's Island and the last couple NSMB games. Sometimes Bowser's motivation seems to be domination. Other times he wants to marry Peach. It's not especially clear from playing the game why he does what he does. Either way, they could do without the kidnapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I've played just about every main franchise Mario game except Yoshi's Island and the last couple NSMB games. Sometimes Bowser's motivation seems to be domination. Other times he wants to marry Peach. It's not especially clear from playing the game why he does what he does. Either way, they could do without the kidnapping. Play Super Mario RPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argle Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I don't know if this video series is worth doing, doesn't seem to be generating much interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansdown Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) . Edited September 8, 2023 by swansdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Just a thought, but I wonder what the creator of these videos would say about people with clearly too much free time who make things like these. For your own sake stop it at 2:35. It gets weirder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab56 v2 aka Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Play Super Mario RPG As with Bleck, I'm not sure what point you are making here either. It would really help me understand what you guys are saying if you'd put in more effort than one line. I did play Super Mario RPG, a game which was more the exception than the norm since it was developed by Square rather than Nintendo. It started out with Mario saving Peach from Bowser, though I don't remember his motivation for kidnapping her in that game. Peach was made into a damsel in distress again later in the game, and that was pretty unimpressive. Another flaw is that Peach was a typical support/healer type rather than anything else. The rest of the game was nice in that it wasn't solely focused on Peach being the damsel. Instead, she got to be an active participant in getting her castle back from the Smithy gang. It has good and bad in it. Edited March 12, 2013 by Ab56 v2 aka Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It's not especially clear from playing the game why he does what he does. and yet here we are talking about how sexist it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab56 v2 aka Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Being unclear about what a fictional character's internal motivations are is not mutually exclusive from inferring that the character's actions themselves create problematic results. Regardless, in some games like Super Paper Mario, Bowser does try to force Peach into a marriage. One might reasonably infer that this is his motivation in other games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 actually in Super Paper Mario Bowser and Peach are forced to marry by the actual villain, Count Bleck which maybe you'd know if you like played it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab56 v2 aka Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I admit I didn't play any of the Super Paper Mario games. I did read somewhere that Bowser has tried to marry Peach, and I thought it was in that game. I'm not sure which game it was in, but if that happened, the rest of my post is still completely on point. Since for some weird reason you seem to be really fixated on which Mario games I've played, here's the list as far as I can remember off the top of my head: Super Mario Bros Super Mario Bros 2 Super Mario Bros 3 Super Mario World Super Mario Land Super Mario Land 2 Super Mario RPG Super Mario 64 Super Mario Sunshine New Super Mario Bros. Mario & Luigi Mario & Luigi 2 Mario & Luigi 3 (I don't remember if I finished this one but I think there were aliens, or it was the one where you're in Bowser. I might have them jumbled up.) Super Mario Galaxy Super Mario Galaxy 2 I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of all of these games because I've played a lot of them many years ago, and I don't have time to replay them now. Please let it go now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 so you don't have time to play video games but you have enough time to argue about them on the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab56 v2 aka Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 That's enough. It's clear to me that you are more interested in trolling than actually contributing anything of value to this thread, so I'm not going to engage you further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) He's poking holes in your reasoning. In this particular instance, if you're motivated enough to argue about it with a complete stranger, it is safe to expect you to be motivated enough to fully understand the source material behind the examples you bring up. It's difficult to give your opinions any credence if you're unwilling or unable to substantiate the claim your making. And before you try to turn this on Bleck or myself, remember that it's YOUR claim we're critiquing. Bleck is in no way obligated to educate you on your own examples, despite his (curt) attempts to. Edited March 12, 2013 by relyanCe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab56 v2 aka Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 He's poking holes in your reasoning.In this particular instance, if you're motivated enough to argue about it with a complete stranger, it is safe to expect you to be motivated enough to fully understand the source material behind the examples you bring up. It's difficult to give your opinions any credence if you're unwilling or unable to substantiate the claim your making. And before you try to turn this on Bleck or myself, remember that it's YOUR claim we're critiquing. Bleck is in no way obligated to educate you on your own examples, despite his (curt) attempts to. I've been constantly backing up my assertions with my reasoning in this thread while you guys have given me virtually nothing but pithy one-liners that don't really explain what your point of criticism is. It would be an insult to the word "critique" to say that's what you're doing. I really don't appreciate having to bend over backwards to intuit what you're getting at and then mounting arguments against it. I have a generally good idea of the franchise I'm talking about, which is enough. If you really think I don't, provide specific examples as to why my reasoning is bad and make a point. So far you haven't actually addressed anything I've said at all. This is not an actual discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arek the Absolute Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) disregard Edited June 15, 2019 by Arek the Absolute i was an idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 We're getting a little offtopic here. Remember that the video we're actually talking about did not condemn these games as sexist, but just discussed the trope, which can appear even in just part of a game and not necessarily the whole game. Likewise WE are not sexist for playing and enjoying them and there is nothing wrong with that... again, this was explicitly stated. We are not being accused of anything so let's move away from talking about guilt, perceived guilt, etc. because it's not relevant here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I have a generally good idea of the franchise I'm talking about, which is enough. If you really think I don't, provide specific examples as to why my reasoning is bad and make a point. your implication if I understand correctly is that Princess Peach is a negative role-model for girls; your reasoning is bad because 1) there's not really any evidence to suggest that Princess Peach is supposed to be or is actively interpreted as role-model of any capacity 2) implying that Princess Peach cannot be the character that she already is because a female character has to be [x] is sexist; one could argue that Princess Peach's character was produced out of sexist character tropes from a largely patriarchal society (and I agree), however to argue that the trope of damsel in distress just should not exist is irrational and deleterious to the idea of gender equality 3) in mainline Mario platformers, the Mario Bros. and Princess Peach are largely lacking in actual characterization; all of the examples of video games in which Princess Peach is an actual character with written dialogue, she's an arguably positive character (or at the very least, the worst of the negative character traits that she's accused of having are reduced to the point of being negligible) my point here is that I think that while there are many, many examples of shitty female characters and patriarchal sexism in video games, Princess Peach is probably a pretty shitty example to be using at the forefront of ones thoughts regarding this particular issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) My niece was Peach for Halloween when she was six. Her reasoning: She's pretty and Mario's girlfriend. When my niece was seven she was Mario for Halloween instead. I asked her why and she said Peach is boring and Mario is "awesome sauce". This is straight from the obvious observations of a little girl and you guy are trying to say Peach is a good role model or shouldn't be seen as one even though they market her as such? Just no. Edited March 12, 2013 by Monobrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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