Brandon Strader

Tropes vs. Women / #GamerGate Conspiracies

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my theory on this is that she's having a REALLY hard time finding examples of damsels in distress over the past ten years that aren't a) peach or B) zelda. like seriously. try naming some off. what can you come up with?

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also... there have been no updates since the last video came out. not even for supporters. my theory on this is that she's having a REALLY hard time finding examples of damsels in distress over the past ten years that aren't a) peach or B) zelda. like seriously. try naming some off. what can you come up with?

There are plenty to rattle off in terms of a woman that you have to rescue, or one playing tag along. I just hope the delay is because Anita's trying to find actually sexist/toxic examples this time.

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I hope she brings up Infamous, at the very least. That's the biggest, most vile example from this console cycle that I can think of.

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Pretty sure that'll be covered in the Fighting Fuck Toy video.

There is nothing even remotely sexist about any fighting game. period. Fighting games are about true equality. They are about the most basic skills and tools for survival that humans have. They are about taking your clothes off and beating things up. (

) Not sexist in the least.

I'll be very very interested in hearing anyone's reasoning on a forthcoming youtube video, should one be made, as to why fighting games are sexist.

Besides, anyone who thinks DOA is sexist hasn't fought Alpha who is ridiculously OP.

Edited by Garpocalypse

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There is nothing even remotely sexist about any fighting game. period. Fighting games are about true equality. They are about the most basic skills and tools for survival that humans have. They are about taking your clothes off and beating things up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNaj7uCVPCI)Not sexist in the least.

I'll be very very interested in hearing anyone's reasoning on a forthcoming youtube video, should one be made, as to why fighting games are sexist.

Besides, anyone who thinks DOA is sexist hasn't fought Alpha who is ridiculously OP.

Not saying they are or aren't. Just saying she'll cover Dead or Alive when she gets to the Fighting Fuck Toy video (Which is after Damsels in Distress).

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...

Good post. I'll be thinking about this more in-depth when my law school finals are over in late May.

my theory on this is that she's having a REALLY hard time finding examples of damsels in distress over the past ten years that aren't a) peach or B) zelda. like seriously. try naming some off. what can you come up with?

Regardless of what you think of her approach, I don't think her delay in releasing videos is for lack of content she finds objectionable. She posted this on her Facebook page: http://tropesversuswomen.tumblr.com

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Regardless of what you think of her approach, I don't think her delay in releasing videos is for lack of content she finds objectionable. She posted this on her Facebook page: http://tropesversuswomen.tumblr.com

yes i would imagine not. content a normal person would agree is objectionable is another story.

what i'm missing here is at what point in human history the idea of chivalry turned into misogyny. 'rescue the princess' used to be, for the last i dunno FOREVER or so until about the 60s, a chivalrous, valiant, at the very least respectable thing. why is that now not the case?

Edited by The Derrit

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Regardless of what you think of her approach, I don't think her delay in releasing videos is for lack of content she finds objectionable. She posted this on her Facebook page: http://tropesversuswomen.tumblr.com

Y'know, just for comparison's sake, I would love to see a page like this made for all the times men have been in trouble in games.

And I'll finally give her some credit. There's some obscure as hell things on here (Though, I'd argue that some of the examples listed aren't fair without context).

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what i'm missing here is at what point in human history the idea of chivalry turned into misogyny. 'rescue the princess' used to be, for the last i dunno FOREVER or so until about the 60s, a chivalrous, valiant, at the very least respectable thing. why is that now not the case?

the real problem isn't that rescuing people is a bad thing, it's that the person who needs rescuing is almost always a woman

to wit, the problem is not that the hero is rescuing the princess; it's that the princess always needs rescuing, even when the villain's plan only seems to involve kidnapping the princess as an afterthought

that being said, this is why I think that the zelda/peach examples aren't actually good; in more or less every game that zelda is kidnapped, it's because zelda is somehow the key to whatever the villain's plan is, and I'm okay with ganondorf kidnapping princess zelda if it's because she has the triforce of wisdom and he needs that to complete the triforce or something like that

however, I do think it's reasonable that we should expect the stories to have zelda be an actual character as opposed to a thing that has a triforce piece, and that she should be making an effort to do heroic things even if those things aren't necessarily exploring dungeons or fighting monsters - and it's probably important to point out that this is exactly what happens in skyward sword

also mario games are cartoony as fuck so who cares

Edited by Bleck

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that being said, this is why I think that the zelda/peach examples aren't actually good; in more or less every game that zelda is kidnapped, it's because zelda is somehow the key to whatever the villain's plan is, and I'm okay with ganondorf kidnapping princess zelda if it's because she has the triforce of wisdom and he needs that to complete the triforce or something like that

The writers at Nintendo could just write the game a different way. They are the Gods of those games after all. The plot/characters/settings/plot coupons could be whatever they wanted with Zelda in an active role.

See this: http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/47724463171/inspired-by-anita-sarkeesians-video-game-tropes

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however, I do think it's reasonable that we should expect the stories to have zelda be an actual character as opposed to a thing that has a triforce piece, and that she should be making an effort to do heroic things even if those things aren't necessarily exploring dungeons or fighting monsters - and it's probably important to point out that this is exactly what happens in skyward sword

and ocarina of time, and wind waker, and spirit tracks

The writers at Nintendo could just write the game a different way. They are the Gods of those games after all. The plot/characters/settings/plot coupons could be whatever they wanted with Zelda in an active role.

they COULD

but why would they, seeing as everyone who's not a raging feminist would be like 'wtf is this'

Edited by The Derrit

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I don't know why anyone would have a legitimate problem with a female Nintendo character having a more active role in the game. It wouldn't take away from my enjoyment at all if Peach were playable or did something other than get kidnapped in a mainstream Mario title, and I'm a guy. I actually think it could make the game more interesting if they did it right. "Raging feminist" is a really meaningless label to put on anyone.

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and ocarina of time, and wind waker, and spirit tracks

zelda's only allowed to do heroic things in oot when she's disguised as a man

tetra's only allowed to do things when she's not actually a princess

spirit tracks was bad and I don't care about it

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Well... to respond thoroughly is a rather tall order, and most people would (respectfully!) probably prefer I STFU and post more mixes. But I hate cop-outs, and if only ONE person reads this and follows some of my reasoning, and explores things for themselves, that's motivation enough.

I think I speak for us all when I say that, as much as we wantz the musicz, we also enjoy seeing you out in the community. :smile: And that's one of the better posts I've seen on the internet in recent months.

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I don't know why anyone would have a legitimate problem with a female Nintendo character having a more active role in the game. It wouldn't take away from my enjoyment at all if Peach were playable or did something other than get kidnapped in a mainstream Mario title, and I'm a guy. I actually think it could make the game more interesting if they did it right. "Raging feminist" is a really meaningless label to put on anyone.

so is dudebro but it hasn't stopped you.

and i think just about everyone who plays zelda games would have a problem if they decided to make it about saving prince link as zelda because oh hey i dunno nintendo makes their living off of nostalgia, not role-swapping

trying to take me talking about a very specific instance and trying to put the words 'problem with women taking more active roles in games' into my mouth is very sleazy please don't do it

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Except I already acknowledged that my use of that term was not tactful many pages earlier, and what I said literally weeks ago isn't relevant here. You're just deflecting.

If for whatever reason you only have a problem with changing the "plot/characters/settings" in Zelda, fine, let's stick to Zelda. I play Zelda games for the action/puzzle gameplay, unique world environment, music, and sometimes for the story. If the game had the option of making my main playable character a girl, it wouldn't brother me at all because the main character's gender has no bearing on my gaming experience. Link doesn't have enough character for a change in gender to even affect the story. As far as having an optional female playable character in the game, I can think of some reasons why it would be beneficial, and I can't see any good reason why not.

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and ocarina of time, and wind waker, and spirit tracks

they COULD

but why would they, seeing as everyone who's not a raging feminist would be like 'wtf is this'

BECAUSE I'M BORED WITH ZELDA PLOTS.

Nintendo generally rehashes the same plot formula again and again. Their audience has grown into adulthood with the games. If they truly respected the audience they'd start playing to it and fucking with them. How about a Zelda game where the Power Triforce wielder is the main character? A young Ganondorf, tired of the Hylian oppression of the Gerudo people, gets his hands on the Triforce of Power and fights back. He must face Zelda's second hand man, Link, which I imagine would be a bit like fighting the goddamn Batman with all the gadgets and items. He must then take on the Dark Wizardress Zelda and bring tyrannical rule to an end. Zelda could give him speeches about how only she has the Wisdom to guide the Hylians or some shit. This is my personal dream Zelda game, but it could be ANYTHING other than the plot that it is again and again.

Instead, we've gotten the same formulaic crap over and over for 20 years. You know what happened when Final Fantasy aged up and decided to start fucking with its audience expectations? They made FF7. I know not everyone loves it, but it blew everyone's minds at the time.

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BECAUSE I'M BORED WITH ZELDA PLOTS.

Nintendo generally rehashes the same plot formula again and again. Their audience has grown into adulthood with the games. If they truly respected the audience they'd start playing to it and fucking with them. How about a Zelda game where the Power Triforce wielder is the main character? A young Ganondorf, tired of the Hylian oppression of the Gerudo people, gets his hands on the Triforce of Power and fights back. He must face Zelda's second hand man, Link, which I imagine would be a bit like fighting the goddamn Batman with all the gadgets and items. He must then take on the Dark Wizardress Zelda and bring tyrannical rule to an end. Zelda could give him speeches about how only she has the Wisdom to guide the Hylians or some shit. This is my personal dream Zelda game, but it could be ANYTHING other than the plot that it is again and again.

Instead, we've gotten the same formulaic crap over and over for 20 years. You know what happened when Final Fantasy aged up and decided to start fucking with its audience expectations? They made FF7. I know not everyone loves it, but it blew everyone's minds at the time.

1) Because what you just pointed out is a terrible idea.

2) There were many things that blew people's minds in FFVII. Its plot wasn't one of them.

Nope, I don't have anything else to contribute to this topic which is strangely still alive.

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Nope, I don't have anything else to contribute to this topic which is strangely still alive.

Well you know if the person running the series of videos would put out new material in a timely manner, then there would be more things to discuss.

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stop playing zelda games then

it's kind of dumb to imply that something shouldn't change for the better just because you don't have a problem with it

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it's kind of dumb to imply that something shouldn't change for the better just because you don't have a problem with it

that's implying that it's better. which it isn't. it's different.

different =/= better.

Edited by The Derrit

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1)

2) There were many things that blew people's minds in FFVII. Its plot wasn't one of them.

Yes it was though, especially at the time. It was very narrative, extremely character driven, and had lots of symbolism, etc. etc... Previously, other FF games had elements of these but were not nearly as explored. FVII was a big step forward, and unfortunately IMO was their last big step.

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