Why don't I hate the old Final Fantasies?

[Ivan Hakštok]

I played all the main FFs except 11, 13 and 14, though I've only completed 7,8,10 and 12.

I never completed the NES ones because, well, they're on the NES. Back when I was a kid I preferred games like Mario, Megaman and Contra... and as an adult I prefer games that are not NES games

Now about the SNES ones... let me start by saying that I didn't have a SNES as a kid and the first SNES game I've played was Chrono Trigger four years ago on an emulator. I liked it so much that I decided to try playing several other rpgs on the SNES... and they all fall short in comparison, including the FFs. I understand that all SNES FFs were probably considered best games ever at the time they came out but like Wes said, they haven't aged as well as CT. I think the main reason for that is the plot. While I didn't find FF4/5/6 plots to be bad, they all start pretty slow, whereas CT really keeps the pace of the plot the same throughout the entire game. And today, when I play old rpgs like these, the plot is the main thing that can keep me interested. Graphics/gameplay/sound just aren't enough.

As for the PS1 FFs, they had a good-enough mixture of graphics, music and plot to keep me interested. The only reason why I haven't completed FF9 is because my brother deleted the save file on my memory card which was some 5-6 hours in the game. But I still admit I did find FF9 weaker than FF7 and FF8. Also, while I think FF7 is a great game, I somehow liked FF8 more. I'm probably one of the 1% that thought draw/junction system was a nice addition. True, it could be tedious but it also gave you a choice - spending time to make battles a bit easier, or rushing through the game while being low on stats.

Finally, the PS2 ones - FF10 was... I'm trying to find reasons to call it bad but I can't. Objectively, it's a damn good game. But I didn't like it. The music is not for my tastes, I hated the plot, the gameplay was too linear... One thing I liked was character differentiation, but once you leveled up enough that becomes obsolete. Nooow, FF12. It's my favorite FF. It had great graphics for the PS2 era. It had a plot that was easy to follow. The dialogue was great. All the characters except Vaan and Penelo were damn awesome and received some good development. The soundtrack, while not completely to my tastes, was pretty good. I loved the gambit system because I'm a lazy person. I'd rather let the computer play through areas where I can kill the enemies with ease rather than having to constantly mash one button like in every goddamn RPG ever.

So to summarize, I don't really like old FFs. But I don't hate them. I just think FFs 1-6 haven't aged well, FF7 was somewhat confusing but still good, FF8 was good except for the pulling-plot-points-out-of-anus storyline, FF9 was decent but not as good as FF7/8, FF10 was objectively good but I just hate it, FF12 was goddamn awesome and I still need to play FF13 to see if it's really as bad as everyone says. I'm probably never gonna play 11 and 14 because I hate everything with the letters M, M and O in it.

P.S. Hate me all you want but I found FF10-2 to be a way better game than FF10 (mainly because of the gameplay)

[Cash]

I'd have to disagree completely, here. The sphere grid was one of the most fun level-up systems I've experienced in a game.

I thought it was a pain in the ass. It's better than the ability system in FF13 though, at least in 10 you had a choice of where to go.

Blitzball consumed countless hours (probably about half of the time spent playing the game) trying to get my team to win the top prizes. One of my favorite "mini-games" in any game.

It was such an awful experience for me. Maybe I just sucked at it. But hey, that's great you had fun with it. Whatever floats your boat.

The lack of an explorable world map (and this goes for XII and XIII as well) didn't even register while I was playing any of these games.

I noticed it immediately.

It makes more sense to me than your giant character running halfway across the world in 30 seconds and I felt more immersed in the game because you literally get to see the ENTIRE world. Not just towns/dungeons/points of interest.

You just described the problem that arises without an explorable map. Without a map to explore, you ARE only restricted to towns, dungeons, and points of interest. You can't see the entire world, you have to go where the game takes you. And with the case of FF10, once you get the airship, you could select where to fly. But again, you could only choose from towns, dungeons, or points of interest.

A world map like in previous FF's provides a way to explore and see the entire world. I get that you can only enter specific areas, but it certainly gives you greater freedom of exploration. Something that I feel to be important. That was my problem with 10 and later, you couldn't actually see the whole map, only specific areas important to the plot. It makes me feel closed off and restricted, I didn't like it. I missed the ability to go off looking for an obscure town, or hut, or cave, or whatever. I think it makes for better secrets.

All my opinion, of course. No doubt you think differently. I do agree that giant characters running around looks silly, but it wasn't a problem for me.

By the way, I still think FF 10 is a good game.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Cash

[Magnetic Ether]

I usually feel that the negatives outway the positives on the "classic" FF games. Really the only ones I like are 1 and 9.

I also kind of like 10, but it does have some massive flaws that bring down the enjoyment level for me.

12, apart from the plot, is fantastic. I don't care what anyone says.

Anyway, as a response to the question of why we forgive older games for having flaws, but not newer ones, I'd say that flaws don't make or break a game. My favorite games actually tend to have massive flaws, but if the pros outway those then it just doesn't matter. I don't play many modern games but I imagine my response would be the same regardless of when the game was made.

Of course if game developers continue to have the same flaws in their games over and over than it makes sense to criminalize the newer games while still respecting the old ones; ie. they didn't know any better back then but they do now so said flaws should have been fixed.

[Faustt]

Like others have pointed out I think it has to do with nostalgia goggles more than anything. Just some quick thoughts on the games I have played with my approximate age.

Minor spoilers ahead

FF1 - Age ~7. Challenging for a seven year old without the internet. Combat was cool at the time (4 person party that you can choose? Yes please!). Ended on a weird note with time paradoxes that hurt my brain as a seven year old.

FFVI - Age ~10-11. Personal favorite of mine. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was shocked to find out that the world of balance is just the first part of the game. That was an awesome twist at the time for me and made the game feel epic in scope.

FFVII Age ~14. I never owned a PSX so I ended up with the PC port. This was actually the game that made me get a 3D video card (remember the days where video cards could only handle 2D?). This game was a giant chore to me, but I did finish it to see what all the hype was about. I didn't care for the characters or plot at all. The only saving grace was the music, and since it was the PC port, it was crappy midi.

FFVIII Age ~15-16. Didn't care for the overall mechanics of that game. Drawing magic and junctioning GFs were a turnoff as was the story. I think I made it to disc 2. Was also the PC port version.

FFIX Age ~17-18. Played on an emulator and really liked it. Felt like an homage to the series and a good way to close out the PSX games. When I moved away from home my HD crashed on me and I lost my save on the last disc. Never got back into it after that.

FFX Age ~20-21. Not the greatest game, but better than the PSX ones in my eyes. I liked the sphere grid idea, and the combat was fun.

FFXII ~Age 22. Instantly hated it. It felt like playing an MMO with bots. No thank you!

FFXIII ~Age 25-26. Took a long time to get into it. Combat was fantastic! Story and characters... Not so much. I did end up finishing it though. It's sequel annoyed me too much to play for more than a few hours.

I think the reason I tend to like the earlier games is I was able to suspend my disbelief more when I was younger. Back then you also had to use your imagination to fill in the blanks more, rather than sit through a tutorial spelling things out for you. True, in hindsight they were clunky, badly written, grind fests, but We didn't know any better at the time. It was fun to just get enveloped in saving the world from... whatever. I feel it's more about the flashy animations, jaw dropping cutscenes, and eye candy now. There's also a lot of over sexualization of female characters since the PS2 era with heaving breasts and gratuitous ass shots that do nothing for me as a gay man. The music has also gone way downhill for me with 6 and 7 being the pinnacle of excellence. I've been jonesing for a good RPG lately. Maybe I should pick up 4 or 5, since I never played either of them for more than an hour or so each.

[RiverSound]

imagine them speaking out loud and having set emotions in place in CG

you'd hate it because it actually is cheesy and your brain just let you get away with thinking it wasn't due to imagination

even if it *wasn't* cheesy the voice acting wouldn't be as good as you wanted it to be, the main reason why anyone thinks most of these newer stories are bad/worse/not just as bad as the old ones

I'll give you that imagination plays a big part with old games. I like to picture the events in my head as they happen on-screen. But of course, we can only speculate how these games would look and feel if made with modern technology. But most of all my point is that even if technical issues, such as the ones you mentioned (how the characters sound and look), would drag the game down, the storyline itself would still, even by today's standards, be epic as hell and loved by many.

It's really interesting to think and explore why many like old rpgs more than new ones. I'm one of those people... I never had an SNES as a child and I actually played FF6 first time in 2010 with an emulator. It absolutely blew my mind and drew me in right from the intro. Not before or since then have I played a game that I would call... an adventure rather than a mere game. Now wasn't that a cheesy way of saying it.

[Cash]

Another thought. I also think some of the animosity towards the newer games comes from the fact that they deviate from the Final Fantasy "norm". FF 1 through 9 stick to the same formula, proven to be successful. So when the franchise tried to mix things up, and take a few risks, a lot of fans were turned off.

I'd like to think I enjoy the older games because they're made better, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm a little bias towards the standard formula. In case anyone is wondering, FF13 is the only one I actually hate, I did have fun with 10 and 12. I didn't play 11 because MMO's don't interest me.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Cash

[Bleck]

I think some of the animosity towards the newer games probably comes from how bad they are

[Thin Crust]

VII was the best. Ever. It has no flaws. So don't look for them.

I think some of the new games get crucified for their flaws because they are doing a really shoddy job of filling in what players used to figure out for themselves.

just for the lulz

[Jamphibious]

I'd have to disagree completely, here. The sphere grid was one of the most fun level-up systems I've experienced in a game. Blitzball consumed countless hours (probably about half of the time spent playing the game) trying to get my team to win the top prizes. One of my favorite "mini-games" in any game. The lack of an explorable world map (and this goes for XII and XIII as well) didn't even register while I was playing any of these games. It makes more sense to me than your giant character running halfway across the world in 30 seconds and I felt more immersed in the game because you literally get to see the ENTIRE world. Not just towns/dungeons/points of interest.

I agree with this. I can get why a lot of people don't like FFX, but I've been playing through it the last week or so (pretty much at the end) and its been really fun. I love the battle system, and while it is quite linear for the majority of the game, there is plenty of side stuff to do and when it opens up there is plenty to do. The linear nature of the game also makes sense in the context of the plot, with the whole pilgrimage and whatnot. The sphere grid is cool, because although there is basically a set path for everyone (except Kimahri, he can kind of go anywhere) there are ways to move you characters around all over the place and build them how you'd like. Rikku is a tank in my game.

The voice acting isn't all that bad (don't cite that laugh scene out of context). The delivery is kinda shoddy at times, but for much of the game the characters are rather convincing. I dunno maybe that's just me.

XII is also great and I love it. Aesthetically it is one of my favourites of all the Final Fantasies. Battle system and gambits was a real cool system. Voice acting was great, and the cutscenes were really well done (both in-game and pre-rendered). I do get why there are gripes with the plot but it didn't bother me personally.

I tried to play through VII and I know a lot of people love it and think it has no flaws, but as someone who has only tried to play it in the last few years it aged so poorly.

[Garpocalypse]

just for the lulz

HAH! Holds up the game and it's a greatest hits version of FFVII. If you weren't there from the beginning you probably don't know.

Review refuted through flawless reasoning.

[Ptazza]

I like VII, V, IV, III, XII,

I love X.

VIII, IX and even X-2 are ok (though my girlfriend is trying to beat IX into my head better).

XIII, XIII-2 I hated.

XIII-3 just makes me groan and sigh at the fact Squenix is continuing this stupid franchise.

[Thin Crust]

HAH! Holds up the game and it's a greatest hits version of FFVII. If you weren't there from the beginning you probably don't know.

Review refuted through flawless reasoning.

Actually your reasoning only states that it was great for it's time when it came out.

And I was there from the beginning. One of the first few games I played and my first Final Fantasy. My first console was a ps1 when I was in 7th grade. My parents wouldn't let me get one earlier. But you know, I don't hate the game. The only FF games I actually hate are FF2(cause of the majo grinding), FF13(beat it and tried to play it again but I only got about 20 minutes in before I put it down.) and FF10-2. Also, despite starting my gaming journey at FF7, my favorite is actually FF12.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Thin Crust

[muredmoogle]

Too many hours thrown at FF7 (chocobo farming, side quests, enemy skills, final weapons, etc)

Too many hours thrown at FF8 (triple triad, more side quests, ultima weapon, etc)

Too many hours thrown at FF9 (tetra master, even more side quests, chocographs, ozma, etc)

Too many hours thrown at FF12 (hunts/marks, too many side quests, SCREW YOU YIAZMAT, etc)

Despite the iffy stories, drawn-out combat system, somewhat questionable magic systems (looking at you Junction) and many other negatives that every individual FF game comes with (no game is perfect), it's just because there is so much to do in the old and new games that I keep playing and enjoying them.

Than again, I haven't played FF13 so I can't make a judgement on the "old vs new" debate.

[Thin Crust]

Why would you spend time at tetra master? I've never done more than just getting through the tournament.

[muredmoogle]

There's something about collecting cards in video games that keeps me awake at night

With that being said, I still can't wrap my head around how Tetra works.

[Gollgagh]

Why would you spend time at tetra master?

because people enjoy minigames sometimes maybe?

[Bleck]

why would anyone like something I don't like

[The Xyco]

I thought FF10 was utter crap until I moved to Japan. Now I realize it is ffffffffkin brilliant.

[nOkbient]

Short answer to this question: because the old final fantasies were games, not movies with hallways.

[Brandon Strader]

Short answer to this question: because the old final fantasies were games, not movies with hallways.

Shit son. You just told it before the gauntlet even hit the ground.

[XPRTNovice]

Short answer to this question: because the old final fantasies were games, not movies with hallways.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh shiiiiiiiit

[ectogemia]

Short answer to this question: because the old final fantasies were games, not movies with hallways.

Respect knuckles two days in a row, bro. Achievement unlocked.

[RiverSound]

Short answer to this question: because the old final fantasies were games, not movies with hallways.

Witty retort #4.

Seriously, there is some tie-breaker value to you comment!

[Otakatt]

Posting in a Final Fantasy debate thread.

Different people like different FF games. That's okay. Some people wear the nostalgia glasses for the older games. That's also okay. Someone not liking your favorite of the series does not take anything away from you or the game. My favorite happens to be one that most seem to think is icky.

I love the music from just about all of them. I've often wondered "Would I like Final Fantasy if the music was garbage?" and I'm not sure... I kinda think I wouldn't.

[Dexie]

Actually your reasoning only states that it was great for it's time when it came out.

And I was there from the beginning. One of the first few games I played and my first Final Fantasy. My first console was a ps1 when I was in 7th grade. My parents wouldn't let me get one earlier. But you know, I don't hate the game. The only FF games I actually hate are FF2(cause of the majo grinding), FF13(beat it and tried to play it again but I only got about 20 minutes in before I put it down.) and FF10-2. Also, despite starting my gaming journey at FF7, my favorite is actually FF12.

So you didn't even make it out of the first cutscene?