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zircon

OCRA-0040 - Final Fantasy VI: Balance and Ruin

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I want to know what planet you live on because most of the people on Earth are pretty bitchy.

But yeah, the album's been pretty well met with near universal praise.

Don't push my buttons, you. If you weren't so damn cute I'd have sent you to the moon years ago.

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Don't push my buttons, you. If you weren't so damn cute I'd have sent you to the moon years ago.

Omg this is exactly how my snappleman/level99 erotic fanfic starts. Life imitating art before my very eyes!

...though to be fair, in the book version, stevo was definitely "sent to the moon". Just sayin.

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Like I mentioned, we're working on getting the CDs printed now. They should start shipping in early August. We didn't think it made sense to make everyone - including backers - wait for the music until that point.

I understand Zircons point and it has merit, Snapple also has a point. From a marketing and PR standpoint deadlines and hype are very important to the success of any project. In Zircons defense however, even though many people donated a lot of money to this, they also knew right away that the deadlines weren't set in stone because it was an all volunteer effort. You can't force people to work on something that they don't get paid for. SO both points have merit, I think if anything going forward, like Snapple said, it's a learning experience for the next round. I'm just happy it's released so that people can finally hear the music. All things being considered, I think this is a huge success for the community and that's the most important part IMO.

-Derek

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We did do the backers-only first CD before the actual album came out, which was received positively by everyone. The backer response in general has been glowing but I think people would have been upset if they didn't get to hear the album until August at the earliest, simply because we wanted to wait for physicals to be ready. The idea of us sitting on the finished project for that long was not an option on the table.

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We did do the backers-only first CD before the actual album came out, which was received positively by everyone. The backer response in general has been glowing but I think people would have been upset if they didn't get to hear the album until August at the earliest, simply because we wanted to wait for physicals to be ready. The idea of us sitting on the finished project for that long was not an option on the table.

I agree with you. I think Snappleman was refering to the delays surrounding the project. (I think) Thats why I spoke to the volunteer effort. Even though there were delays I think it was a good idea to release a more complete project rather than release something unfinished. That being said there were people upset by the delays thats all I was saying. You're right though, having everyone wait until August would have been unacceptable for the digital release.

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It's a balancing act for sure, especially when there are so many variables. But this topic came up because people have been asking "where's the feedback?". When I think back to when VotL(ol) was released, there was a ton more response from the internet. This time around the response is much much more positive than with VotL, but there's much less of it, and I believe that the staggered release may have something to do with it. I expect a bigger flood of feedback and a generally bigger reaction once the CD ships. Some people might even be looking at the early release in the same way they would look at an early leak of an album or movie.

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When I think back to when VotL(ol) was released, there was a ton more response from the internet. This time around the response is much much more positive than with VotL, but there's much less of it

Perhaps, but I say those people who hate on VotL can get off my internet and meet a Tifa fist headfirst...

But I can see the point of view, joke aside. It would be amazing to be able to actually buy this stuff but I think, to an end, that would upset them upstarts over at SquareEnix quite a tad (hence the original delay and the issues with the kickstarter back at the turn of the year). So to be in the position you all are in now, is pretty crediable.

And yeah, the major thing about OCR is it's done by volunteers as a hobby, not as a job, so you can't expect the same tightly wound package of PR, release, etc as you would do if this was say, Roadrunner Records releasing the new Slipknot album. So, to that end, I'm pretty stoked with the work you all do, album in album out, because it's always good quality.

Anywho, Ravenos Ramble done until the next post I make I suppose.

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It's a climate that has changed considerably over the past few years - applies to mixposts in the same way. You'd be lucky if a single track gets 10 posts in its own thread in a day right now. From personal experience, the response in comparison to mixposts from 6-8 years ago and mixposts now is that currently there's fewer reactions but are much less rabid in nature (i.e. you can still criticise it but you won't go as far as being a moron about it).

And of course there's the social networks as well. People still browse from the many social feeds out there and offer their thoughts there too, without much of a need to sign up. It's a change in climate, nothing wrong on the album's part at all - we did what we could at the end of the day.

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It's a climate that has changed considerably over the past few years - applies to mixposts in the same way. You'd be lucky if a single track gets 10 posts in its own thread in a day right now. From personal experience, the response in comparison to mixposts from 6-8 years ago and mixposts now is that currently there's fewer reactions but are much less rabid in nature (i.e. you can still criticise it but you won't go as far as being a moron about it).

And of course there's the social networks as well. People still browse from the many social feeds out there and offer their thoughts there too, without much of a need to sign up. It's a change in climate, nothing wrong on the album's part at all - we did what we could at the end of the day.

What is good (and bad) about other forms of Social Network is this exact thing, you don't have to sign up to give your views. I sent a few tweets on the first few days lavishing my praise for B&R before I came plodding onto the forums. Equally there are probably a few who have been doing the opposite (i.e., using Twitter to flame B&R) and because they don't need to sign up to here they can use Facebook/Twitter etc to their vitriolic heart's content... sadly.

Side note, back to thoughts on the content of the album, I've just listened to the Omen set again. What a fantastic piece of work by Snapple, norg and Captain Finnbeard. As a fan of Prog Rock this certainly reminds me of some of the classic tracks from there in it's structure and, despite not using a media player that allows gapless playback right now (Am using VLC at work as that's all my laptop has got apart from WMP), it effortlessly seems together. I will pass this on to the station I used to DJ (and play other OCR tracks on) to see what they think, am sure they'll like it too :)

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It's not just this album. All posted mixes get much fewer responses that mixes from years ago. I'm not sure YouTube can explain it, since the older mixes have more responses there as well.

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I've said it for years: People are getting spoiled. We've all been at this for over a decade, and the newness of it has worn off, now it's all about the relatively few diehard fans who have stuck by all this time, and the fleeting waves of younger kids who discover this scene and then move on.

It's definitely not the same as it used to be, and it's a shame because we, the artists, are spending big chunks of our lives refining our craft, learning anything and everything we can, spending a LOT of money on gear and continually striving to get better. Most of the fans don't realize that it's a completely thankless way to spend 90% of you free time (not even OCR thanks us for being on their albums).

I really wish everyone had the same appreciation and overall mentality as the kickstarter backers do, but that's not how the world works.

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I've said it for years: People are getting spoiled. We've all been at this for over a decade, and the newness of it has worn off, now it's all about the relatively few diehard fans who have stuck by all this time, and the fleeting waves of younger kids who discover this scene and then move on.

It's definitely not the same as it used to be, and it's a shame because we, the artists, are spending big chunks of our lives refining our craft, learning anything and everything we can, spending a LOT of money on gear and continually striving to get better. Most of the fans don't realize that it's a completely thankless way to spend 90% of you free time (not even OCR thanks us for being on their albums).

I really wish everyone had the same appreciation and overall mentality as the kickstarter backers do, but that's not how the world works.

Hmm.. Well I've pretty hardcore, having been around since 2005... Just didn't donate to the kickstarter, I was out of work when it started and got pulled due to SEs little profit panic when I was in work

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Gonna second Rexy as I too have noticed the sharp dropoff in Review feedback on the site over the past few years.

I've said it for years: People are getting spoiled. We've all been at this for over a decade, and the newness of it has worn off, now it's all about the relatively few diehard fans who have stuck by all this time, and the fleeting waves of younger kids who discover this scene and then move on.

This^ is basically the conclusion I came to when I was reading the last couple pages on the thread earlier. It seems like the listening base in general has gradually shifted from being participators to simply consumers. That desire to become part of something, even in a little way like registering on the forums and posting in an album review thread, doesn't seem to exist for many of these folks anymore.

Maybe it's the way the Internet has evolved over the past few years - that social media interaction is the norm with sites like Twitter and Facebook, rather than just the purview of niche community sites like OCR.

However! Lest I become part of the problem as well as take this further off topic, I'll leave my initial album feedback here:

I have to confess that I've only made it through the first two discs so far (terrible, I know, but that's life right now), but I have to say I'm floored by everything I'm hearing. Everyone involved has really stepped up their game here, which is a great testament to the committment of the artist community. Even though I have a track on the album and collaborated on another, given the scope of what's involved, it feels like a drop in the bucket compared to what's been accomplished here. So, congrats to Mike and Andy: you guys have really set the bar high for those of us directing the next few albums!

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I thought people only wrote reviews because they wanted to be judges or something, or if you make some good friends and they actually listen to your music just to enjoy it, which is awesome, but rare. :cry:

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Hmm.. Well I've pretty hardcore, having been around since 2005... Just didn't donate to the kickstarter, I was out of work when it started and got pulled due to SEs little profit panic when I was in work

It doesn't matter if you pay money or not, you pay attention. That counts way more. :) If making money doing this was anyone's priority they wouldn't be here.

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Most of the fans don't realize that it's a completely thankless way to spend 90% of you free time (not even OCR thanks us for being on their albums).

How can you say it's thankless free time when you (and all OCR artists) have the praise and thanks of the hardcore fans? Have you not read all the incredible praise of the album in this thread? We, who have come here and heaped on praise and thanks for this album, have already made it so that your free time is not thankless.

Just goes to show you that the negative things in life resonate more than the positive. That is the real shame if you ask me. My point: be happy that OCR has a dedicated fan base, rather than upset that it's not as big as you would like.

So yeah, thank you SnappleMan, norg, and Captain Finbeard, for putting in all that effort and free time to put together the epic, four-part track that is Omen! Amazing work, seriously. And, once again, thank you to everyone involved in this incredible album!

Edited by Cash

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Cash hit it nail on the head. Apparently a handful of artists may have expected so much more from OCR due to its past, but a lot of us aught to have learnt by now that we come here to learn our craft, have fun making stuff and putting it out there - a sweet hobby community at the end of the day.

The best advice I received on this issue is from OA, and that can apply to a handful of people here going under that same treatment:

[16:40] <OA> rather than worry about not being able to immediately climb higher all the time

[16:40] <OA> maybe just enjoy the view for a bit

[16:40] <Rexy> you know, that's actually a great way of seeing things o_O

[16:40] <OA> helps keep me happy at least :-)

So naturally, for some of us the fan response may not be what we desired, but we still got to congratulate ourselves for being a part of this mammoth undertaking and seeing all the positives that came from it. Climate change sucks, I know, but by adapting and comparing to more recent (relevant?) experiences we get to see the effect that the album's work has done :)

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How can you say it's thankless free time when you (and all OCR artists) have the praise and thanks of the hardcore fans? Have you not read all the incredible praise of the album in this thread? We, who have come here and heaped on praise and thanks for this album, have already made it so that your free time is not thankless.

Just goes to show you that the negative things in life resonate more than the positive. That is the real shame if you ask me. My point: be happy that OCR has a dedicated fan base, rather than upset that it's not as big as you would like.

So yeah, thank you SnappleMan, norg, and Captain Finbeard, for putting in all that effort and free time to put together the epic, four-part track that is Omen! Amazing work, seriously. And, once again, thank you to everyone involved in this incredible album!

I don't mean that the fans don't give thanks and praise. That comment was aimed at OCR (the people running the project and the site) because they don't act as if they appreciate the artists for devoting their valuable time and filling the site up for them. Sure there's a quick "thanks to everyone involved" on the project sites and whatnot, but that doesn't mean too much when the general vibe I and many other musicians get is that we're treated like we should be thanking OCR for them allowing us to be on their site. I'm not trying to make anyone look bad here, it's just that the nature of what we do here is too niche to be appreciated on a more general level, and OCR promotes OCR, not the musicians.

"But snappleman you're wrong blah blah blah" No I'm right. Look at any OCR youtube video. It's nothing but a commercial for the site while a persons song is playing "LIKE THIS SONG? WE ALSO GOT ZELDA AND MARIO SONGS! COME SEE THE SITE!!!!" Instead it should have info about the artist, linking to his/her songs. But that's another discussion for another thread.

I have my own very dedicated fanbase that takes care of me pretty well as far as my own releases are concerned, so I don't need to submit my music to OCR for exposure. I submit to OCR because there are some great people here who I respect, and when they ask me to be on an album or whatever I feel honored.

OCR has been creating the OCR brand for years. The fans see OCR as a single entity first, and then later when they dive into the site and the music they're exposed to the actual artists who create the content. That is why there are such strong anti/pro OCR opinions, you'll see "Oh awesome another OCR album hell yeah!" and "Oh, another OCR album? No thanks." That tells you very plainly that the very first thing people notice is the brand, and then whatever they associate with that brand is automatically applied regardless of the content. To some that may sound negative, but it's a very powerful position to be in, so kudos to DJP and Larry for making the brand stick.

This all comes back to the issue of feedback. The backers are arguably the most dedicated fans of the site and especially this album. Hundreds of people backed it without even having a full list of the artists involved. That means they believe in the OCR brand. It would be easy to leave feedback based on the digital release if it was just about whose song you like, but I believe that the complete OCR package is what people are waiting on, and I expect a good deal more feedback when the entire package is delivered.

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I don't mean that the fans don't give thanks and praise. That comment was aimed at OCR (the people running the project and the site) because they don't act as if they appreciate the artists for devoting their valuable time and filling the site up for them.

I see, your comment didn't make that clear. As for OCR not appreciating artists, I'll leave that for others (i.e. the people running the project and the site) to respond, probably in a different thread.

Oops, edited the other part out. I'll just say I don't think of OCR as a brand first, it's the artists that matter most to me. I can't speak for other fans.

Edited by Cash

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Well the sad thing is that there is some sizable contingent of people that doesn't like how we tag our artist field with actual artists and instead wants us to just put OC ReMix there. Balancing site promo vs. artist promo is certainly something that Dave & Larry are constantly trying to figure out. I know the next version of the site will be placing more emphasis on individual artist social media for example and making it even easier for people to get more info about the mixers.

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Well the sad thing is that there is some sizable contingent of people that doesn't like how we tag our artist field with actual artists and instead wants us to just put OC ReMix there. Balancing site promo vs. artist promo is certainly something that Dave & Larry are constantly trying to figure out. I know the next version of the site will be placing more emphasis on individual artist social media for example and making it even easier for people to get more info about the mixers.

There's nothing to figure out. The smartest thing to do is to associate "OCReMix" with everything that is released. Dave and Larry are doing it right with regard to the site. It's a business (regardless of the lack of profit), and should be run as such. The artists who have a problem with it (myself included) can choose not to participate in most of the projects and all that. I don't think anyone is doing anything wrong or "bad", it's just a matter of values.

I personally like being able to pop in and out, throw a song into an album or whatever, and do my own thing the rest of the time.

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I personally like being able to pop in and out, throw a song into an album or whatever, and do my own thing the rest of the time.

This is my take but from a "consumer" point of view. I'm not hassled or pushed into getting every track, or every album so I pick and choose the tracks from games I know (I get every album because I like discographies :))

In terms of "marketablity" and such, the only purefire way to drive up numbers would be to start releasing stuff for commerical radio (imo some of the stuff here is 10x better than the trash on BBC Radio 1 etc) but, OCR is very niche and that's the problem. Niche doesn't sell (or attract) anyone those outside the niche.

I looks as tho it's a bit of a catch-22. But hey, you got me hooked for 8 years that can't be bad seeing as I listen to mostly prog right?

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I know the next version of the site will be placing more emphasis on individual artist social media for example and making it even easier for people to get more info about the mixers.

Are there any plans for a soundcloud-like ability to upload WIPs directly to the site in order to springboard ideas off of the community? Perhaps something with version control to make project WIPs more manageable (ideally with private and public settings.) I always thought it would be neat to tag timestamps in the waveform with constructive criticism. I think it would motivate people to give more feedback and finish more remixes. It would give newbies more opportunity for learning while letting experienced remixers show off what they're currently working on.

At the very least it would help me remember if I committed to any projects that have been in the works for the last few years. :)

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