Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Spoilers Inside!)

[AngelCityOutlaw]

9 hours ago, Phonetic Hero said:

Rather than piling on with the few issues I had with it, I'm just going to say that the score was AMAZINGLY refreshing, right from the very first scene.  So, so welcome after the rather boring direction a lot of modern film music has gone

Yeah I know, like, with actual melody and shit right? Instead of BWWWWAAAAAMM

Anyway, people keep criticizing the score and saying it's not as good as John's older scores, but I mean, he's 83 and has been at this for half a century and has composed the most iconic movie themes ever. He's allowed to have one score that's "not as good" as the others.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I see it as a valid complaint. Considering that the Prequel themes were some of his best in his whole career (Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes), I think people were expecting another big epic fight song. The score instead was more subtle, and while we did get a new theme for Rey, most of the score was re-arranged material from the originals.

[WillRock]

1 hour ago, Native Jovian said:

The complaint there is that she learned to use her powers too quickly.  Luke got some actual training from Obi-Wan, and still didn't use the Force except in a passive sense (he made a difficult torpedo shot, he didn't start flinging stuff around with his mind) for the rest of the movie -- and even then he had to be talked through it by Obi-Wan's ghost.  Rey, on the other hand, never receives any training, outright rejects the idea of learning to use the Force (as opposed to Luke who is gung-ho about it from the start), and still manages to pull off stuff like holding off Kylo's mental probe (and indeed, turns it against him) mind tricking a guard, yanking a lightsaber out of Kylo's force grip, defeating him in a lightsaber duel, etc.  Yes, there are extenuating circumstances (Kylo is wounded, he's supposedly only half-trained himself, etc) but it still comes off as the movie wanting to make sure we know how much of a super awesome badass Rey is.  I think the "mary sue" claim is a bit much, but I don't think the idea that she's more powerful with less training than anyone else in Star Wars is wrong.

Yeah I can see that. Learning the force - maybe she's just good at that. As for sword fighting, we don't know her backstory so maybe she's had some training there already. Like you say, I get it but the mary sue claim is OTT in this instance. 

1 hour ago, Neblix said:

I see it as a valid complaint. Considering that the Prequel themes were some of his best in his whole career (Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes), I think people were expecting another big epic fight song. The score instead was more subtle, and while we did get a new theme for Rey, most of the score was re-arranged material from the originals.

Subpar Williams is better than 99% of other film composers best work imo. I do agree that the soundtrack didn't have anything new grab me (I just assumed its cause I only heard the music in the film, I've not analysed the soundtrack) - but John Williams at his best is so fucking good that he's got one HELL of a rep to uphold. And its not like he's in his prime right now, he's 83. My Grandpa had forgotten I was his grandson at that point  The fact he's composing at all is AMAZING imo and should be commended.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I think people are talking way too much out of their ass about the world of film scoring.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

4 minutes ago, Neblix said:

I think people are talking way too much out of their ass about the world of film scoring.

Because you have so much experience with the "world of film scoring".

Rey's theme, which I keep seeing regarded as "the only stand out track" on the soundtrack itself is far more musical and memorable than just about anything coming out of most modern film scores. Williams is one of the few guys still scoring blockbuster films where his music isn't just a bunch of ambience, ostinatos and loud percussion. Hell, Williams is one of the only guys still using entirely live percussion on most of his scores. 

[Bleck]

people are complaining about rey being a mary sue because of latent misogyny

[AngelCityOutlaw]

In not-so-shocking news, JJ Abrams regrets not signing on to direct VIII

[Nabeel Ansari]

3 hours ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:

Because you have so much experience with the "world of film scoring".

Actually I do because I work in virtual instruments for the film/tv/game scoring industry

beside the point; saying subpar John Williams is better than "99% of other film composers' best work" is grossly uninformed and musically unintelligible. Yes, he's good at what he does. You can say that without degrading the immense amount of talent and creativity that floods the rest of the industry

besides, a claim like that is completely based on personal preference... there's no universal axiom that says film music has to be catchy and melodic (and there are still plenty of melodic iconic scores not written by Williams), and just because you as a listener can't latch onto more subtle music doesn't mean it's artistically inferior or the composer is less skilled

typically film music analysts value how the music serves the film and affects the audience more than they do evaluating if the songs are catchy or not... that's because the role of music in a film is to create a better film experience, not to drop your hot new mixtape to picture. Williams just happens to be able to do both, with confidence, and has for the last many decades.

[WillRock]

53 minutes ago, Neblix said:

Actually I do because I work in virtual instruments for the film/tv/game scoring industry

beside the point; saying subpar John Williams is better than "99% of other film composers' best work" is grossly uninformed and musically unintelligible. Yes, he's good at what he does. You can say that without degrading the immense amount of talent and creativity that floods the rest of the industry

I did say its my opinion... er... sorry for having an opinion you disagree with? My bad if I offended you or something, last thing I want to do is upset people haha. Music is all an opinion at the end of the day. You have every right to disagree but try not to take it so literally yeah? Music is so subjective after all.

Now, back to the film in question?

[Nabeel Ansari]

4 minutes ago, WillRock said:

I did say its my opinion... er... sorry for having an opinion you disagree with? My bad if I offended you or something, last thing I want to do is upset people haha. Music is all an opinion at the end of the day. You have every right to disagree but try not to take it so literally yeah? Music is so subjective after all.

Now, back to the film in question?

I did find it offensive. Praise without denigration is a thing. You can state your opinion in a way that doesn't amount to "well I arbitrarily think he's the best film composer ever so there's no merit to complaining that this film's music was subpar"

[AngelCityOutlaw]

36 minutes ago, WillRock said:

I did say its my opinion... er... sorry for having an opinion you disagree with? My bad if I offended you or something, last thing I want to do is upset people haha. Music is all an opinion at the end of the day. You have every right to disagree but try not to take it so literally yeah? Music is so subjective after all.

Now, back to the film in question?

He does this in almost every thread. You express an opinion he disagrees with and so he proceeds to basically say why you're a dumbass who couldn't possibly know what you're talking about though he's no authority on the matter at hand himself in 9/10 scenarios and just turned 20 this year according to his page. Just let it happen.

In relevant discussion:

I've decided the only thing I was slightly disappointed by with the movie is how they didn't show much of Captain Phasma despite the hype for her. I know it's more or less confirmed she's going to be a much bigger character in episode VIII, but I still wish she got just a bit more screen time. 

 

[Brandon Strader]

Oh hey yeah, the music was not that good.

Why couldn't they have copied THAT part of the original trilogy?

[Phonetic Hero]

 

15 hours ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:

I've decided the only thing I was slightly disappointed by with the movie is how they didn't show much of Captain Phasma despite the hype for her. I know it's more or less confirmed she's going to be a much bigger character in episode VIII, but I still wish she got just a bit more screen time. 

Yeah I agree, I didn't even know she was supposed to have a bigger part until I read stuff after seeing the movie lol.  Hopefully she's brought back and more interesting in the next episodes.

I think my biggest concern for the trilogy at this point is that Rey will end up being a Skywalker. I really, reeeaaally don't want that to happen.  I know everyone's expecting something along those lines, but it's just soooo cheesy.  And the message kinda ends up being something along the lines of "you're a useless piece of shit unless you're a Skywalker"

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

1 hour ago, Phonetic Hero said:

 

Yeah I agree, I didn't even know she was supposed to have a bigger part until I read stuff after seeing the movie lol.  Hopefully she's brought back and more interesting in the next episodes.

I think my biggest concern for the trilogy at this point is that Rey will end up being a Skywalker. I really, reeeaaally don't want that to happen.  I know everyone's expecting something along those lines, but it's just soooo cheesy.  And the message kinda ends up being something along the lines of "you're a useless piece of shit unless you're a Skywalker"

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. As if the Skywalkers were the only force sensitives in the entire bleeding galaxy.

[Nabeel Ansari]

21 minutes ago, Malaki-LEGEND.sys said:

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. As if the Skywalkers were the only force sensitives in the entire bleeding galaxy.

Luke *is* the only Jedi left right now. So... while they're not the only force sensitives, they still are the most important people in the galaxy.

[Bleck]

the prequels make it pretty clear that force sensitivity isn't heriditary 

[Phonetic Hero]

3 hours ago, Bleck said:

the prequels make it pretty clear that force sensitivity isn't heriditary 

It's a little hard to believe genetics don't have *anything* to do with it though, when Anakin, Luke & Leia, and now Kylo Ren are all extremely powerful force users

I guess it's a little beside the point though. I just hope Rey doesn't turn out to be a Skywalker

[DarkeSword]

The Star Wars Saga is the story of the Skywalker family.

[Brandon Strader]

What is the Star Wars Saga? Is that one of those non-Disney things that is isn't canon now? :3 Episode VIII seemed to be about a lot of non-Skywalkers for the most part. Sure, they were transporting a soccer ball that had a USB drive map to Luke but the majority of the movie was about Stimpy (Whatever her name is), Han Solo, Black Stormtrooper, Chewbacca, and Solo Kid. Leia didn't have much screen time. Luke had even less. He came out looking like a cheesily caped Yanni that made me want to watch Live at the Acropolis again

[Bleck]

4 hours ago, Phonetic Hero said:

It's a little hard to believe genetics don't have *anything* to do with it though, when Anakin, Luke & Leia, and now Kylo Ren are all extremely powerful force users

Of those four, only Anakin is notably more "powerful" than other Force users - and even then, it's implied that his strength with the Force is the result of somewhat insidious experimentation. Luke isn't really shown as being notably more capable with the Force than any other Jedi, Leia is implied to be sensitive to the Force but not actually trained in Jedi whatevers, and Kylo Ren's whole deal is that he seems very powerful, but, is not.

[DarkeSword]

33 minutes ago, Brandon Strader said:

What is the Star Wars Saga? Is that one of those non-Disney things that is isn't canon now? :3 Episode VIII seemed to be about a lot of non-Skywalkers for the most part. Sure, they were transporting a soccer ball that had a USB drive map to Luke but the majority of the movie was about Stimpy (Whatever her name is), Han Solo, Black Stormtrooper, Chewbacca, and Solo Kid. Leia didn't have much screen time. Luke had even less. He came out looking like a cheesily caped Yanni that made me want to watch Live at the Acropolis again

The Star Wars Saga is comprised of the numbered "episode" movies. Episodes 1-6 originally. Now that there's a new set of "episodes," those are included. Next year's "Rogue One" and the Young Han Solo movie that they're making are "anthology" movies.

There are other characters and other things that happen in the Saga, but it's always meant to have been the story of the Skywalker family. We started with Luke, went back to see what happened with Anakin, and now we're seeing what happens with Rey.

[Lemonectric]

1 hour ago, Bleck said:

it's implied that his strength with the Force is the result of somewhat insidious experimentation.

Or because he's infested with microbes.

[Nabeel Ansari]

The prequels rely on his midi-chlorian count to convey his force sensitivity. While we probably don't like the scientific treatment of the force in the prequels, it is still true. There's nothing similar said for the others, though. Additionally, I'd not really call either Leia or Kylo Ren a strong force user. Leia has latent force potential, but it's never developed. Ren is clearly weaksauce, not because of his sensitivity, but because of his state of mind. If you notice, he's very oblivious in the movie; clouded by his anger when things don't go his way. It's why he bodies a Chewie blast, also apparently in the book he is actually feeling incredibly tormented (and distracted) after he kills Han. So I guess they both could be strong, and Ren probably will get stronger, sure.

The Force is strong in the Skywalker family, but it's been shown that doesn't have to mean every member of the Skywalker family is a power fantasy.

That being said, I do kind of agree that her being a Skywalker isn't the most exciting thing, but here's why. It's the first of our three movies, and it seems like they were making it out to be a big deal secret reveal later that she was going to be a Skywalker. But after thinking about it... it's kind of obvious now, right from the getgo. It's not doing a good job at keeping its secret, so... we all see it coming. I don't really care if she is Skywalker, I don't think it's detrimental to the narrative, I just think it's odd the movie seems like it's trying to hide it while also basically shoving it in your face.

[Phonetic Hero]

11 hours ago, Neblix said:

Additionally, I'd not really call either Leia or Kylo Ren a strong force user. Ren is clearly weaksauce, not because of his sensitivity, but because of his state of mind. If you notice, he's very oblivious in the movie; clouded by his anger when things don't go his way. It's why he bodies a Chewie blast, also apparently in the book he is actually feeling incredibly tormented (and distracted) after he kills Han. So I guess they both could be strong, and Ren probably will get stronger, sure.

I totally agree with you about Kylo Ren's mental state and that it's definitely weakening him a LOT, but he's also the only person we've ever seen force stop a fucking *laser blast*.  I don't think you can say he's not a strong force user haha.  It seems like they put that right at the beginning to demonstrate his force prowess and let you know "this person is exceptionally strong with the force", and THEN developed him as a character by showing his immaturity and weak-mindedness

EDIT: Also now that you mention it, I'm remembering a trailer in which Rey's likely blood connection to the Skywalkers was made preeetty obvious.  Luke is narrating about how the force is strong in his family - his father had it, he has it, his sister has it, and then says "you have that power too".  So... bummer? :\  It's phrased juuuust ambiguously enough that maybe he's not talking about her, or he's just talking about how strong his family is and comparing her to them even though she's not a part of it.  But if you take it at face value... yeah, pretty obvious

[Mirby]

Saw this tonight. Rather enjoyed it. Wasn't much I disliked. Main gripe was that, outside of Jakku, I have no idea what the names of the other planets they went to were called lol.

There were some great gags though, like the two Stormtroopers backing off and turning around once they realize Kylo is throwing yet another temper tantrum when he realized Rey escaped. They were like "nope we're not going near that." Also, as Darke said, Han realizing the greatness of Chewie's Bowcaster. 

Had no idea C-3PO was showing up, and I'm incredibly curious as to where his actual arm is and where the red replacement came from haha. BB-8 was adorable, especially when he was meticulously going down the stairs. Also nice to see there's more than one cantina in the entire galaxy, since the older movies seemed to act like Mos Eisley was the only one since they never showed any others (to my memory). Also variety in biomes was nice. Original movies had just ICE PLANET and FOREST MOON and DESERT PLANET. I mean there was some variety but it seemed like the whole planet was one biome, whereas here we had a snowy forest, which was refreshing. 

Also they certainly went large, having them blow up an entire planet. The symbolism during that climax was rampant though. From the sun going out just before Han was killed by Ben Kylo to the ground separating leaving Kylo and Rey on very different sides, it was very well done. 

Rey taking that huge walk just to find Luke who stared at her for a minute or so before CREDITS was a bit weird, but it was nice. That also gave me an image of Luke riding on her back training her like Yoda did to him, which seemed rather hilarious to me. Sure that won't happen BUT IF IT DID...

Also, did Captain Phasma die? Last we saw, they were gonna throw her in a trash compacter, but we didn't see if they actually did nor if she escaped before the planet went boom. And did they recover Kylo's body before the planet went kaput as Snoke ordered them or was he killed too? They left the fates a few villains rather unexplained, but I'm sure we'll get our answers in Episode VIII. 

All in all, I rather enjoyed it. Would watch again.