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Gario

OCR03662 - *YES* Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild "The Triforce Needs Five More Minutes" *RESUB*

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Previous decision

Good Morning,

   I've removed some elements of the track for clarity and cleanliness. Thank you again for the feedback, and it would be a dream to have a track of mine posted on the best video game remix site on the planet. I've been a fan for years!

v/r

Joe

 

Contact Information

ReMixer Name: Joe November

Real Name: Joe Thomas

Email Address: 

Website: n/a

Forum Profile ID: 34557

 

Submission Information

Game Name: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

Arrangement Name: The Triforce Needs Five More Minutes

Song Name: The Temple of Time

Composer: Manaka Kataoka

System: Wii U (I know it came out on the Nintendo Switch as well, but this was the system I played it from)

Original Soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfHyKWnk9JU

Inspiration: I absolutely love the minimalist piano used throughout the game, and the first area to really catch my ear was when I visited the ruined Temple of Time. I loved the haunting yet serene melody that you could hear, as if it it was reminded you of a great period of time that has long since past. I also love hip hop, and I felt like I could pay homage to the melody by merging it with a bouncy head-nodding beat and a funky bass line. The vocals and sound effects are used to simply add emotion and color to the track, so that those who've played the game can relive some key moments. The vocals also serve to tell a bit of the story of Breath of the Wild as well. The pace of the song attempts to illustrate when Link first awakes in the Shrine of Resurrection, learning of the plight of Zelda from the King, fighting (and dying) in numerous battles, acquiring the aid from the four champions to conquer the Divine Beasts, and marveling the power and the prophecy of the Master Sword.

 

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Chimpyzilla-kun requested a timestamp, so I'll provide it this time around:

0:00 - 0:48 - Chord pattern from source (that's the chord pattern the piano outlines with it's arpeggio)

0:48 - 1:00 - Piano directly from source

1:00 - 1:12 - Chord pattern from source

1:12 - 2:13 - Piano directly from source, with decorative elements to keep it varied and interesting

2:13 - 2:26 - Section directly from source

2:26 - 2:50 - Background squares keep track grounded with source from original Legend of Zelda (I'd count this as half source, since notes are held extra long)

2:50 - 4:15 - Piano directly from source

3:56 - 4:15 - Music box pulls from original Legend of Zelda source

243s / 255s = 95.3% Source Usage (Counting chord patterns as source, counting original LoZ track as half source)

183s / 255s = 71.8% Source Usage (Only counting direct references to sources)

Not to press a point too hard, but seriously: there's virtually no moment in this track where source isn't present in some form or another. I know there's a lot of space that's filled in the arrangement where the source is silent or holding long notes, but let's be real for a minute: if the source has sustained silence or a sustained note for a measure or more, what's the arranger going to do with that otherwise? If the arranger compresses the silence or reduces the note length too much (reducing it past one measure if it's a measure or more longer), keeping all other things equal it's not going to sound like the source anymore, which defeats the purpose of making the remix. An arranger extending said notes or silences to pad for length is one thing, but using the source's actual long notes or silences shouldn't be held against the arranger in that sort of fashion.

As far as my thoughts on this mix now, I do notice some of the SFX and vocal clips have been removed (at 2:26 - 2:50 specifically, but in a few places in the beginning and end as well), and some of the delays have been reduced, which helps this track stay better focused. The section from 2:26 - 2:50 is still overly crowded (mostly the piano strikes against the bass), but it does sound more bearable this time around; moments of messy mixing in a 24s section out of over four minutes doesn't quite count as a deal breaker, for me, when all else is quite well done.

The vocal clips that are still there will probably grate on some people, but I think it's sufficient for the narrative style, here - it tastefully tells a story. As Chimpyzilla mentioned in the previous review reducing the SFX and vocals further would help focus the narrative better and give each clip more impact, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the clips being used as they are in here. It's not for everyone, but that doesn't mean it should hold the track back.

The arrangement has just enough to keep a sparse source interesting, the production quality is great outside of the 2:26 - 2:50 section, and the hip hop style is pretty awesome. I could use some more production clean-up (I'll probably request it from the arranger, in fact), but I'm not against getting this posted as-is, either. I have to say I agree with the sentiment that there isn't enough hip-hop on here, so having something like this will help fill that gap a bit. Nice work!

YES

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Gario's breakdown is nearly identical to what I came up with last time, though I didn't count the chord progressions and I didn't pick up on that heavily transformed main LoZ theme during that extra-busy 2:26-2:50.

While this is a distinct improvement, a lot of my criticisms still stand.  I don't think the voiceovers add anything on a musical level, and without them a lot of this is pretty repetitive (especially 1:00-2:12).  I don't mind voice clips on principle, but they have to be used either as musical elements or in addition to musical elements.  Here they're used in place of musical elements, and I don't think that works well at all.  For instance, 0:48-1:00 has SFX used as part of the music, and while the application seems kind of random to me, the're used appropriately there, and I thought the the "recharge" effects and voices in 3:14-3:35 worked quite well.

That cluttered section is only better by comparison to the first submission.  It's still extremely messy.  The "hey hey"'s and the one booming percussive element conflict with a lot of the other instruments, and the synths are stepping all over each other the whole time.  2:50-3:05 still has some conflict as well, especially with the piano getting muffled by the synth with the sweeping filter.

It's progress, but I don't think this is quite there.  The source usage is adequate IMO despite the inherent challenge of using this particular source, but 2:26-3:05 still needs some attention in production, and the sections with voiceovers could use something other than voices to hold the listener's interest (and I'm still not on board with including story spoilers).

NO

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I wasn't part of the original evaluation, nor have I listened to it so I guess I'll bring a fresh approach here.  First thing to be addressed is the vocal SFX.  I will admit I'm a fan of using narrations or vocal clips in my own music to add flavor and context, but I think they are a bit too much here.  From what I can gather there used to be more prevalent in the previous version.  In this version I think the usage is borderline, as in, I think they could be pushed back and removed further but they're not so prevalent as to take over what should be more important (the arrangement behind them).

Speaking of the arrangement, I thought it was pretty sweet, the melodies and performances are a strong point, very jazzy, yet chill and freeform.  I didn't take as much issue with the more crowded sections, and I really enjoyed the arrangement, even if I never heard the BOTW soundtrack before.

Production is pretty solid for the most part, clean and warm in most places.  I believe the vocal sfx will be a big point on contention in people's mind (and youtube comments!) if this gets posted, but this is the artist's vision for the track and the amount of sfx and whether they are enough or too much is now so borderline I think it will come down to preference. I would still like to point out to listeners to look beyond them as there's a very solid and enjoyable arrangement behind.

YES

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Had to listen to this one a few times to wrap my head around it. I like the concept here, and overall I think it's performed pretty well. Aside from sections getting a little cluttered I think the production is pretty on point. I'm not a huge fan of the large number of vocal clips, but I think the 'story' presented works pretty well overall, and mostly it's personal preference. Overall I think this is good to go, though I'm curious what the others will think.

YES

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Thanks Gario for the timestamps.  This version is MUCH better but I still have some concerns.   I feel like there are too many vocal clips.  I'm generally a big fan of vocal clips, but as in the previous decision I particularly dislike "Daruk's Protection" and the others (I don't like those in-game either).  I really like the groove here quite a bit, and the mix of musical elements, but the arrangement seems quite dependent on the clips where more ear candy would be preferable.  The trap hats sound pretty repetitive and loopy after awhile, perhaps some filtering or processing would make them more interesting.  There are a few moments of heavy dissonance from 2:29-2:50, that's pretty distracting, not sure what's happening there.  

This is close for me, a few more bits of TLC will push it over the bar for me, primarily that section of dissonance.

NO (resubmit)

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I never heard the first version, so I'm coming in fresh.

The track was 4:15-long, so I needed needed at least 127.5 seconds of overt source usage for the VGM to dominate the arrangement. I didn't count some of the chords Gario referenced, but maybe I'd understand them better if I listened to the source tune more; a moot point anyway, since there was no issue regarding source usage.

:48-1:00, 1:13-2:35, 2:38-2:47 (Zelda NES), 2:50-4:14 - 186 seconds

I actually would subtract some time with some of the gaps in the piano part playing the source, but it certainly wouldn't be anything that would make it a close call on the amount of source usage.

Arrangement-wise, this was more of a rap instrumental in style, so there was some repetition, but the piece certainly evolved and developed over time, so I had no issues there.

I could see why some would take issue with the numerous voice clips; I'd be down with some of them being cut out, but it's just a personal taste thing, IMO. I had 0 issue with how the clips were used and didn't feel they detracted from the piece at all; you get used to them over time, and they added variety to the sound, so I think the NOs should work on removing the Octoroks stuffed up their butts. :-D

I disagreed with Chimpa on the "heavy dissonance from 2:29-2:50"; nothing's off there. While I like strong basses, things could have been toned down here; that said, the clutter others pointed out wasn't a dealbreaker at all. Nice, chill work, Joe! Let's goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

YES

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On 7/17/2017 at 7:18 PM, Chimpazilla said:

Gaaaaario.... Chimp-a-zilla.... plz :-P 

He also called you Chimpyzilla later on in his vote. [/shakes head]

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On 15/06/2017 at 1:03 AM, Sir_NutS said:

I wasn't part of the original evaluation, nor have I listened to it so I guess I'll bring a fresh approach here.  First thing to be addressed is the vocal SFX.  I will admit I'm a fan of using narrations or vocal clips in my own music to add flavor and context, but I think they are a bit too much here.  From what I can gather there used to be more prevalent in the previous version. 

Mike pretty much sums up my original concerns with this mix on hitting play. There's almost non stop dialogue for the first 1 minute - using voice samples isn't a problem, but here they were so frequent, upfront and loud that they felt disconnected from the mix and consequently felt out of place to me (some reverb on these samples would go a long way). When the mix moves past this we can appreciate the main groove a lot more. The arrangement here is pretty chill and relaxing, with a good choice of instruments to fit the style. That said, the change at 2:14 IMO took too long to actually occur, with the mix essentially relying on the same groove up until this point. Makes me wonder if the voice samples were used to mask the lack of variation/content.

Updated: 2:29 didn't sound right to me and I share Kristina's concerns (dun care what Larry says 8)), the piano hits unpleasant dissonance with those chords in the lower register - not sure if it's due to the octave or the actual notes used, but after a couple listens I think it may not even be the piano at all but actually the bassline not playing nice. If these chords were elevated up an octave they'd be clearer, wouldn't share as much frequency room with your bass, and you'd then be able to tell more clearly if your bass is the culprit for the clash. The final section runs smoothly however.

Not sure how to feel here, voice samples aside, the mixing is decent, and you've made a good choice in sounds. The arrangement I felt was a bit lacking and could've changed up a bit more, especially in the first half. Now on the third listen and I still can't get past it, the 2:29 portion just doesn't sit right. Combined with the over use of voice samples that feel disconnected from the rest of the mix, this tips this into the negative for me.

NO 

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4 hours ago, Jivemaster said:

2:29 didn't sound right to me and I share Kristina's concerns (dun care what Larry says 8)), the piano hits unpleasant dissonance with those chords, not sure if it's due to the octave or the actual notes used, but I think it may actually be the bassline not playing nice. The final section runs smoothly however.

Not sure how to feel here, voice samples aside, the mixing is decent, and you've made a good choice in sounds. The arrangement I felt was a bit lacking and could've changed up a bit more. Now on the third listen and I still can't get past it, the 2:29 portion just doesn't sit right, which combined with the over use of voice samples, tips this into the negative for me.

The piano chords were pretty muffled, but even so, nothing struck me as off and messing up the listen, so I'll just restate that this is overblown. If anything, the chords shouldn't be so muffled.

As for the voice clips, I can do without some of them, sure, but like Gario and the submitting artist said, they're there to tell a story and they worked just fine in that context. Also, I didn't previously notice MindWanderer mention the clips can be spoilers, but people will live and we also have no rule against that.

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OK, setting aside personal feelings on the vocal SFX (not a fan, personally), the mix is overall well produced, has lots of style to it, progresses nicely, and incorporates a ton of source.  I'm cool with this one on it's own merits  

2:29 dissonance didn't bother me, I'm honestly more concerned about the clutter there and elsewhere than the notes themselves.  Some cleanup on the busier sections would be nice, but not a dealbreaker.

YES

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