With regards to ToU C

[Seyfert]

"If OverClocked ReMixes are being redistributed, they may not be modified in any way from the MP3 versions"

...I mean, really? Remixes can't be remixed? MP3s can't become OGGs? That 10 seconds of silence at the end absolutely needs to be retained and thus ruining what is otherwise interesting music?

[djpretzel]

2 hours ago, Seyfert said:

"If OverClocked ReMixes are being redistributed, they may not be modified in any way from the MP3 versions"

...I mean, really? Remixes can't be remixed? MP3s can't become OGGs? That 10 seconds of silence at the end absolutely needs to be retained and thus ruining what is otherwise interesting music?

You can do that for yourself, for your personal collection - absolutely, no one's stopping you, and why would they...

The key word here is "redistributed" - if you're hosting/mirroring portions of the collection for *others*, yeah, we want the files to be official & unmodified. If you're remixing them, that's no longer redistribution of the original audio, it's a different ballgame entirely. Conversion to OGG wouldn't make much sense (lossy to lossy?) - @Liontamerhas done work on silence trimming so if you find mixes w/ 10+ seconds of true silence (no signal), let us know here. The bigger no-no that we're especially concerned with would be modifying tagging/attribution, FYI.

[Seyfert]

I assume using them for a game is redistribution? It's just that some parts fit and some don't, often... and many are medleys, which means the tone changes, and often a narrative doesn't change as quickly. Also, music in games tends to repeat and not have fadeout endings.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Seyfert

[DarkeSword]

You shouldn't be using OC ReMixes in games you're developing unless they're free, not-for-profit fan-works. What's your use case here?

[Seyfert]

Well, I'm not exactly SquareEnix... I doubt anyone will even play it. The other sections already mention this, but then I noticed C... music would really not work even in uncommercial games, due to the above reasons.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Seyfert

[DarkeSword]

Sure. But in the end, OC ReMixes are not really meant to be BGM replacements for games; they're pieces written to be listened to. If you're looking for a loop-friendly version of a track, you can always contact the artist to see if they can hook you up with a custom render of it with proper loop points. This of course is only if you're making some kind of not-commericial fan-game. If you're making a game for consumption on an app store or on Steam or something, then I recommend you set a budget and hire a composer for original music. Plenty of artists in this community are interested in and have experience with writing OSTs for games.

[Seyfert]

I just cut the parts that make it seem most loopable, but asking them doesn't seem very viable, as I use lots, and no, this is more of a learning experience, nothing professional, only resource I'm using is time...

But otherwise, music from here always seemed to be the most viable to use (apart from royalty-free generic music, but then I'd have no connection to them like I do with these being remixes from games played prior).

Edited June 22, 2021 by Seyfert

[Seyfert]

Just to confirm, there's nothing legal that would be done about games with ocremixes, correct? Even if they're quite similar to the original?

[DarkeSword]

You can't use OC ReMixes in any for-profit game. You also can't use OC ReMixes in any game that would be published on a storefront like Steam or the Apple/Android app stores.

[Seyfert]

Itch.io?

[Meteo Xavier]

What? No. No for-profit games. None storefronts. Zero monetary exchange. Bupkiss bartering material. Void of gain-exchange or personal constructionary trade on this planet and all others for which any kind of exchange system exists or can be expected including celestial bodies such as Sol, Betelgeuse, Alpha-Centauri, Beta-Centauri, and space-time punctures such as black holes and quasars.

In a word: nope.

[DarkeSword]

15 hours ago, Seyfert said:

Itch.io?

No.

[Seyfert]

What...? You could be slightly more informative, you know. If not there then it's nowhere, in which case there's no point to use CC as a licence...

[Liontamer]

7 minutes ago, Seyfert said:

What...? You could be slightly more informative, you know. If not there then it's nowhere, in which case there's no point to use CC as a licence...

Not quite, you could make a free game on Newgrounds, i.e. somewhere where there isn't a payment or gratuity option. But yeah, it's meant for non-commericial purposes. Like others mentioned, if you want to use something in a for-profit environment, the risk is on you, and that's when you would contact the arranger via social media or email and get their explicit permission/approval to use their music in an explicit or potential for-profit setting.

[Seyfert]

How do 'environments' affect anything? Surely it depends on whether the individual download is free or not? How do other users and their games impact on mine?

Edited November 5, 2021 by Seyfert

[Jorito]

It's not that difficult IMO. If you host your game somewhere where people can pay for it (even if it's a voluntary donation), then money comes into play (the 'environment' Larry was talking about), and when there's money involved, you just get a different type of discussion. Artists made the tracks to be enjoyed for free, and if somebody suddenly uses your free material and makes money off of it, it's just not cool. I have had it happen to me (somebody stole some of my remixes and from a few other people, compiled it on an album and sold it on Amazon and the like). It's just a dick move that you don't want to make. 

Summary: if it's a for-free thing, you're good. If there's money involved, check with the artists first because they either might insist on a piece of the pie (no matter how big or small) or just not be okay with you using their work in such a way. It all boils down to respecting the artists as well as the OCR community and submissions guidelines and to not abuse them.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Jorito

[Seyfert]

I wasn't even talking about voluntary donations... it's very obvious what downloads are, and there's nowhere besides itch to host them, especially with something as efficient as their butler software. Nothing to do with selling it on Amazon, I didn't even remotely imply that. There's stuff on itch that is CC-NC, you reckon their reasoning for using it is so different from this site? Because if it is then CC isn't sensible. If you don't even want them to be used for free then copyright them, simple. Also Jorito, some of your music isn't in the torrent? Like Mysteries of the Marsh, Moments, 'Da Legend of da Regg Aelm Ya' too (don't think there are any other Legaia remixes), Turtle Woods.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Seyfert

[DarkeSword]

We don't use CC here.

[Seyfert]

Must have been something I presumed after reading the content policy page as it sounded pretty much identical to CC BY-NC-SA (doesn't seem I'm alone either, someone on reddit seemed to have presumed too), but now I see it's in some sort of grey area, and it's implied they can't even be copyrighted due to being derivative. Anyway, the point is, surely the medium wouldn't be the problem specifically...

[Meteo Xavier]

Dude, why are you so hung up on this? They have answered you many times more than the question needed.

If you need videogame music so badly, there are literally tens of thousands of game composers in dev groups and Facebook and Youtube who are dying for someone, ANYONE, to let them do music for a game. You could pay them in sandwiches and head cheese and they'll deliver music quality comparable to Ocremix posts (a lot of them really are pretty skilled in music where they are not skilled in advertising themselves in a field that has 100x more supply than demand).

[HoboKa]

3 hours ago, Meteo Xavier said:

 (a lot of them really are pretty skilled in music where they are not skilled in advertising themselves in a field that has 100x more supply than demand).

Oof I felt this.  The market is absolutely over-saturated and selling something for more than $20 seems like its now beyond the pale [edit] nvm the last bit, probably went too off-topic so cut it out.

Edited November 8, 2021 by HoboKa

[Seyfert]

I'm not making a commercial game, why would I pay anyone?

[Meteo Xavier]

Better question: If the game is not-commercial and no money exchange is going on, then why are you still asking?

Looking at the board here, you got your answer back in June. You can use the music for non-commercial purposes, but editing them is not allowed. Editing them to make them loopable or more like background music is ill-advised in the first place because these songs aren't designed to be in the background of other stuff going on in media and aren't designed to be loopable. You best options are to look for music elsewhere or just accept that there will be little gaps of silence in the game as the ocremix songs start over.

Short of that, I don't know what else there is to talk about here with anyone.

[Seyfert]

That's why I started the thread to begin with, as it's patently absurd that one cannot simply edit out the silence (are they copyrighting that now...?) randomly present at the end of random songs. People need to be sensible and either have no silence ever, or be reasonable...

Edited November 9, 2021 by Seyfert

[Kat]

...I'm not seeing what the problem is. I'm pretty sure djpretzel already cleared that one up...

On 6/21/2021 at 7:58 PM, djpretzel said:

You can do that for yourself, for your personal collection - absolutely, no one's stopping you, and why would they...

The key word here is "redistributed" - if you're hosting/mirroring portions of the collection for *others*, yeah, we want the files to be official & unmodified. If you're remixing them, that's no longer redistribution of the original audio, it's a different ballgame entirely. Conversion to OGG wouldn't make much sense (lossy to lossy?) - @Liontamerhas done work on silence trimming so if you find mixes w/ 10+ seconds of true silence (no signal), let us know here. The bigger no-no that we're especially concerned with would be modifying tagging/attribution, FYI.

...And gave you a remedy if you do find one with excessive silence, while also clarifying that the no editing clause is mostly for redistribution. No one is stopping you from trimming the silence. FBI agents aren't going to show up at your house with warrant because you removed 3 seconds of silence at the end of a song. Several people have already clarified that these aren't intended for BGM and that if you want loop-friendly versions you should contact the original artist - and you should do that anyways if you want to use them, even if it's non-commercial.

Really not sure why you're making this out to be a problem.