*NO* Pikmin 2 "It Kills You with Fire... and More"

[Liontamer]

ReMixer name: jnWake.
Name of game(s) arranged: Pikmin 2.
Name of arrangement: It Kills You With Fire... And More.
Name of individual song(s) arranged: "Fighting the Titan Dweevil" (from here:  , I'm pretty sure I'm using all variations of the theme but I figure listing just one of them is enough).

I've always liked the Pikmin 2 soundtrack, which features a ton of really chill themes. However, for this remix I focused on the final boss battle theme, which is a pretty weird and dissonant song, which I turned into a still pretty and dissonant weird prog. metal track.

 

In the actual game, the song is "dynamic" and changes according to the battle conditions and what the boss is doing. In the remix I tried to incorporate most of the elements introduced in the dynamic variations, which was pretty challenging! I won't list everything but, for example, the organ introduced at 0:28 is inspired by one of the variations, and the entire section from 1:07 to 1:40 are interpretations of the themes that play for each of the boss' attacks.

 

This was a somewhat hard remix to arrange due to the weirdness of the original track but I think it came up nicely in the end. Mixing isn't perfect but it is what it is I suppose. Hope you enjoy!

 

It's here:  . It's downloadable.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Liontamer
closed decision

[MindWanderer]

Nice arrangement of a tricky source. Goes in a lot of different directions, maintaining interest while staying coherent. The ending is pretty abrupt, but otherwise the arrangement is dynamic and engaging.

There's something about the production that's bugging me, though. It's pretty light in the bass and mid ranges, clustered mostly in the mid-bass and mid-highs. The guitar has a very narrow frequency presence, and the percussion (kicks and hats) are filtered very high. Weirdly, the best word I can use to describe it is "metallic."  Not as in "metal" the genre, but there's an industrial, brassy tone to it.  Overall, the thin production and vanilla synths make this sound like a submission from 10+ years ago.

I'm having a hard time pointing to much objectively wrong with it, though. Maybe another judge will be able to put it into words better than I can.  It doesn't feel like there's enough grounds to explain a solid NO, but it also just doesn't sound right to me.  I'll revisit this after I see a couple more votes; right now I'll give this my

YES?

[DarkSim]

The strength of this one is definitely in the arrangement and imagination to take on such a challenging source. The instrumentation is good, although the samples and sound design is a mixed bag in terms of quality.

Chunky intro hits are interspersed with some almost cheeky-sounding malleted strings. When the rhythm guitar properly starts chugging at 0:24, it's very static and noticeable how identical each chug is. Some more variation there would go a long way. The rhodes organ sounds very clean in comparison to the narrow, distorted guitar. Strings and synths work together to add more drama, and cover up each other's shortcomings - the lead synth is very basic sounding on its own (cool solo at 2:08 though!).

The pace change at 1:44 is super cool, and the bass sounds great there. Percussion is also solid. Really nice transition out of the solo into the next chuggy section with the descending piano. The final section at 3:00 is also handled quite well, although the rhythm guitar is exposed again and sounds worse as it hits higher notes, becoming very tinny. Ending was a bit unexpected, but it works.

I think for a metal arrangement, the guitar parts are sadly lacking in their authenticity, but you've done a decent job with what you have to work with. If there was any chance you could record them live, I'm sure the results would be fantastic. That said, there are no glaring flaws that bring this down, and the arrangement is great.

YES

[prophetik music]

yeah, the fake nature of the guitar is more obvious upon relistens. there's a ton of machine-gun effect that i can hear. any method to mix that up - varying release times slightly, some envelope manipulation, anything - would help a ton. it's a sweet idea though! it hits pretty hard, and if anything it's actually less weird than the source is for the first parts at least. 1:13-1:48 sounds straight off of an instrumental section of a portnoy-less dream theater album (if the snares were 900x hotter, that is). i think the synth sound design isn't anything crazy, but is pretty in keeping with other prog metal bands that i've heard which rely more on interesting playing over interesting sound design. so it's not elevating the track but it's certainly not a hindrance.

1:48's groove is great and far less fakey than the opening section. the organ does a nice job being reminiscent of the 3-weapon version. there's a section at about 2:29 that's similar to the opening section, and then we get a new variation at about 2:59 that's more rising action. i don't care for switching between major and minor of the same chord, and the guitar again sounds pretty rough again here.

there's a rising-action ending that's again taken from the original and we're done.

the arrangement here is great. this is an awesome idea and adaptation of the original's interesting and honestly pretty strange (in the context of the OST, at least) track. there's a lot of ideas taken from the original to influence the writing here. i think the track sounds fine from a production standpoint, as well - the different instruments are always clearly audible and don't mush together, there's not any egregiously out-of-touch instruments, etc. the third leg, the sound design, certainly isn't on the same level as the first two for the reasons listed above. i'd argue though that what's here is certainly sufficient of being posted on the site. i just want a live version since it'd be way better by default ?

 

 

YES

[Liontamer]

I see how the intro's underwhelming, and the sampled guitar chugs at :20 sound so rigidly timed with repeating attacks/intensity that don't have any round-robin to at least somewhat humanize them. Before the organ joins in at :28, those chugs sound bone dry and untreated. Loved the doubled/layered lines from :07-:10 though, that's an awesome sound.

The tremolo strings at :47 sounded good, but then hit those longer attacks again at :49, so that's no good. Look how exposed the guitar sample sounds at 1:42 as it ends. The lead at 1:50's also very mechanical-sounding. Piano at 2:27 sounds good though; still fakey, but it's mixed very well, so it sounds way more realistic in tone (and less rigid) than more exposed parts like the guitars (or even the piano at :12, less so at 1:28). Final section at 2:58's just way too rigidly timed and lacks any fluidity until 3:29, both the guitar and piano.

It feels like the effort's all in the arrangement, just not in the sequencing detail work. I love the arrangement, and this doesn't need live performers, but this does need more fluidity/humanization in the sequencing, and this strongly shouldn't pass as is. It's a mock-up with a completed composition, and those fundamentals are strong, but it's now awaiting the production polish. Without it, I'm a no-go.

NO (resubmit)

[Chimpazilla]

Drums are mixed very quietly, especially the kick, I can barely hear it.  I think the kick just can't cut through the wall of guitars. I hear the snare more clearly but it sounds muted.  It's odd, I hear and feel sidechaining, at least on the bass, but when the compressor hits I can't hear the kick that is driving it, I only hear/feel the dip.  This is super noticeable to me in the section from 1:50-2:27.  I honestly cannot tell if this is purposeful sidechaining or a pumpy effect from a hard-driven master, but either way it feels very unnatural to me.  Either way, that section is extremely dense and crowded.

All sampled instruments sound uncanny.  The guitars sound very rigid and dry and the piano sounds unhumanized with all velocities identical (luckily there isn't too much piano in this arrangement, but 0:13-0:15 is a prime example).  I wonder if adding more reverb to each element in the mix would soften the overall effect of the sampled instruments somewhat.

The concept and arrangement are excellent!  But the samples sound so stiff and dry.  The guitars are the biggest offender, with every note sounding identical, and especially because they are so loud and prominent.  I agree with Larry that live performances aren't required, but in a mix that features guitar so prominently, there needs to be a bit more nuance in the sequencing.  Again I think a touch more reverb on everything (in varying amounts, and with varied pre-delay amounts) would go a long way toward making it all feel more natural overall.

NO (resubmit)

[Emunator]

Completely agreed that the sampled instruments are not cutting the mustard here, and everything feels really locked to the grid. This applies to nearly all of the instruments - piano, drums, and especially the rhythm guitar chugs. It's like there was no velocity or timing changes on anything in the arrangement whatsoever. I don't mean to diss the arrangement as a whole, because it's really a great take and I can absolutely see this passing without any fundamental changes at all, but the sequencing feels robotic as if this was meant as a reference track for live performers.

The sound stage overall feels dry and lacking a sense of place, too - more reverb and some tasteful distortion/saturation, especially on the guitars, where it would really benefit to have some more life and movement to the tone, would make this come to life!

I rarely ever suggest "find a live instrumentalist" as a solution for fixing remixing issues because I do believe that with enough work, this could easily pass as a solo endeavor with purely sequenced instruments, but I do think that would be the fastest path to success here. Given your proclivity for collaborations, I don't foresee this being a problem

NO (resubmit)

[XPRTNovice]

I'm going to echo a lot of the other judge's opinoins here, but at the risk of sounding unoriginal, we're on a grid the entire time for this piece and it makes it feel not human at all, which sometimes can be OK if we're in a genre like EDM, but for something like prog metal (and I use the term lightly) we need something that doesn't sound programmed. We can get a little messier with the programming here with some automation and some light touches within the instruments to get them to sound a bit more performed and a little less programmed. 

Second, there are some mixing issues that I am going to call out that need to be fixed, particularly in the bass. There's massive mud going on around 150-200hz in the bass. I have a finely tuned space and it's resonating pretty hard in here. The bass really was fatiguing my ears by the end of this piece like I needed to turn the whole thing down. And as a result, you've got your drums a bit buried (particularly the kick) and the whole thing comes out unbalanced. I don't need to cite a specific section here because it's fairly pervasive to my ear. 

There are several sections where it just sounds sparse, particularly the introduction and the ending. Some of this, I think, will be fixed by your humanization, believe it or not, because our ear will be perceiving different performances and even though there's not more instrumentation, it'll SOUND like there's more instrumentation. But, you could probably also use more instrumentation, particularly in the ending. There's so much blank space in the soundscape, and also in the rhythm, that we get the sense that it's thin and incomplete. 

A very cool interpretation of this source, but we've got some work to do. Good luck!

 

NO (resubmit)

[Gario]

This does a pretty darn good job with the source to arrange it into something not only palatable, but downright darn good; it's a challenge to take something with so many less than tonal elements and cook up something this cool and interesting ain't easy! As far as the arrangement goes, fantastic work.

The production has some issues that does hold this back, though. As others have mentioned the instruments are often stiff and inhuman (particularly the guitar and strings), though fortunately there are some instruments that sound great on this front, too (the organ and synth are pretty solid, on this front). Some of this can be hidden with some reverb to blend the instruments together in the space better (there really should be some, anyway, since it's overall much too dry atm), but the mixing exacerbates the issue quite a bit. That rhythm guitar, even if it was perfect otherwise is just mixed too most to the front and drowns the arrangement out, for the most part.

This has all the pieces for a pretty great arrangement, but I agree with the others that the instrument humanization needs some work for the guitar and strings, the overall arrangement needs some reverb overall, and the mix needs to be reworked. I like what you did with the source, so I hope this helps.

NO