Liontamer Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Original Decision Contact Information Cyril the Wolf Connor Pelkey https://cyrilthewolf.com 14582 Submission Information Chrono Cross Scar's Worn by Time CHRONO CROSS ~Scars Left By Time~ I've been wanting to do a version of this tune for awhile now, but there's so many takes on this song I just couldn't figure it out. Eventually though I was trying to figure out what songs I wanted to perform for a set at MAGFest when I realized you could do an acoustic arrangement fairly convincingly and cover *most* of the parts. I did perform it live in that manner since it was just me and a guitar at MAGFest, but I wanted to get BOMBASTIC to really measure up to the original for the recording. I elected to fore-go extra strings and things and keep it pretty simple so the parts that were there could shine. This was also submitted to the Dwelling of Duels contest for January/December as well and I'm proud of how well everything clicked. Additional: I learned a lot about vocal arranging from Brad (prophetik) who's detailed feedback helped a lot. We ended up connecting on some tuning assistance because while I'm not tone deaf - I think to an extent because it was my own voice and I was focused on different things like Timbre at the time that the pitch just didn't connect. The feedback about the mix was very pointed - this goes to show that you can iterate even if you feel like a project is mostly finished. I admit I was experimenting with a different method of drum mixing but ultimately decided that I'd go back to what gave me great results in the past. Please enjoy screaming vocals responsibly. Lyrics: The memories are flowing fast They're too fine for me Sands of time wearing away what walls that I had built So I let you in But Time was never meant for us It merely wanted our tears as we bear its scars... We pay the price of those who came before We pray that we won't be the same Devoured by the ones who sealed our fate Our world is just a frozen flame When all of the dew dries Ending the morning Do we condemn nature because nothing ever lasts? Cerulean our skies No sign of a warning We sighed at the future and just lived in our past When all of our dreams die Who is in mourning? We cry for the future but can't forgive our past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted October 8, 2023 Author Share Posted October 8, 2023 What's with the vocal modulation at :18? OK, well that's odd, but we'll move forward. Still strong stuff, and the vocals sound more focused, but I'm also not the one needing to be convinced. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 i've heard this a few times since it came through last time because i begged connor to redo the vocals, and wound up doing some pitch work on them as well. the section at 2:41 is probably my favorite part, but the key change after the break in the second section is a great idea. i think this is my favorite time's scar remix i've ever heard, and i've made several myself as it's a mt. rushmore VGM tune for me. the groove in the second section is intense but still feels like the original's instrumentation, and the realization of the melody line in connor's voice - that high note is an E! like what the heck! - is so exciting. i still can't understand half the words in the first half, but the overall package is just so good. YES ps: before posting, there's a few audio artifacts in this version (0:39) that i didn't hear last time i heard this, so i think they're export errors. would be nice to get another render. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 The metal portion, from 1:02 on, is pretty darn good. It's on-key, the balance is great, everything I liked about the earlier version is true and pretty much everything I complained about is fixed. Vocals could be easier to understand, but that's a genre thing. The first minute, though. I recognize that all these flourishes and modulations are intentional. But to me they sound really, really bad. 0:54-1:00 in particular sound like a novice singer hunting for the notes, and 0:18 sounds like an adolescent whose voice cracked. Again, I know this was a decision and not a lack of skill. But I can't get over it. I won't begrudge anyone else their YES votes, but you won't be getting one from me. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emunator Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 It pains me so much to say this but I agree with MindWanderer still. The unintelligible quality on the clean vocals is something I can look past, but some of the specific modulations that he timestamped are just not working for me at all. I think it might turn off some listeners who would then be missing out on the rest of the track, which is REALLY good. I think you need to ease up on the flourishes and bring the clean vocals back to basics, then let loose in the heavy rock section where it clearly plays more to your strengths as a vocalist. It's hard to provide critiques on vocal performances because of how inherently personal they are, but to be totally blunt here at the risk of being offensive, it sounds like you're overcompensating during the clean sections and it just comes across as awkward.The pitch work that was done with Brad definitely helped improve this, but I still don't feel comfortable signing off on this on the basis of the first minute. The rest of the track shows that you are an incredibly talented vocalist that can absolutely rip through those higher-energy passages, so I don't want this to scan as a critique on your vocal abilities overall, but stylistically, I think you need to revisit your approach to the performance during the first minute of this song. Also, the opening guitar notes from :04 through :12 feel... comically loud and forward in the mix, it was super jarring to me and a weird way to start the track. There is an incredible track here that is worth the effort you've been putting into it, but I think it needs one more pass. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Good stuff, solid source and great arrangement to go on top of it. The voice is sharp to a distracting degree at 0:40, which would be nice to fix, and the diction could be clearer so the lyrics could be discerned better, but otherwise the vocals sounded fine to me - something that might not be to everyone's taste when exposed, but that's Cyril's style so I'm hard pressed to reject a track over it. I think this is plenty fine for OCR's front page, I like it. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 All the changes I asked for in the first round of voting have been made, and Brad did a great job helping, but I sadly have to agree with MW and Wes that the first minute of this track blows the whole deal. The rest of the track works great and sounds amazing. But the vocal in that first minute sounds so forced and so awkward and unnatural, and no amount of pitch correction or mixing is going to fix that. I don't know what to suggest, but it just doesn't work. I'm really sorry. Perhaps MW's and Wes's suggestions can be put to use. I suspect there will be listeners who cannot get through that first minute to get to the remainder of the track, which is a shame. Wes explained the situation perfectly, in my opinion. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexstyle Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 First track back on the j00jtrain! I read the above opinions and came in here expecting to hear something wildly off key and rough, vocally, but that's not what I heard. Yeah, this is definitely not going to be everyone's cup of tea (hi, vocal haters!), but I think the performance is given with a great amount of intentionality and drive behind it. The B-section of this thing totally rocks -- that bass is doing fun things to my posterior movements and the guitars chug with appropriate amounts of [[insert METAL HORNS here]]. Drums are obviously sequenced/grid-locked but effective and cut through well enough. Loving the hand percussion throughout. The vocal mix doesn't bother me -- this is clearly a "vocal as instrument" sort of application here and I'm not fussed about being able to decipher the lyrics when the *feel* of the song works so well. This is OC ReMix front page material if I ever heard it! I clearly heard source tune material woven throughout the track -- nothing terribly ground-breaking here, but the connection is there. 'Scuse me while I go charge at some enemies with this blasting over the loudspeakers.... YES Gario 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexy Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Yep, this is definitely "Time's Scar" played straight - nothing to say about the structure other than it being a stylistic vocal rock adaptation, with a thrown-in bridge based on the post-intro B section going between 2:05-2:40. I haven't heard the original version, so I have nothing to compare to re: vocal arrangement, but based on what I heard, the meat and potatoes after the first 60 seconds show great strength to compliment the style, though the modulation *within* the first minute feels overblown. That flaw may have been a basis for a no from other judges, but based on other vocal works from you, I can play devil's advocate and believe that kind of expression is your schtick, no matter the overall pacing. Everything also feels clean - I can identify all parts, there are some pristinely recorded live instruments, and timings have run a tight ship. I don't mind the drums on a grid, as they're doing the time-keeping for everything else. The main issue I had with the overall production, though, was the vocals themselves having inaudible consonants. Usually, an EQ tweak in the higher register could get them further front for increased clarity in your words. On the other hand, it's also seen as "vocals as an instrument," so something like that is "nice to have. " It's something I can get behind despite the vocal mixing flaws. It won't get past the vocal-song hate, but it doesn't need to do that - it's you, through and through, and it can shine on its own. Good luck with the rest of the vote. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSim Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 I didn't hear the first iteration of this, but first impressions of this version are that it's a little tongue-in-cheek 'hair metal' number that doesn't take itself too seriously. I say 'tongue-in-cheek', because the serious and sombre tone of the source has been juxtaposed with those vocal modulations, unintelligible wailing (0:27-0:30), and that outrageous voice crack at 0:18. Initially, it just sounds like someone trying too hard to be a serious singer, however the rest of the track is so good that it has to be intentional, and I can appreciate that. I think if you wanted to, you could do a 100% serious version justice, but this leans more towards parody than not. If the vocal treatment wasn't convincing you though, surely those bongos take the cake. In the words of John McEnroe: "You CANNOT be serious!" I mean, honestly, if you listen to this track hoping for some kind of burning intensity and deep emotional experience, you'll be disappointed. If you choose to embrace the madness, you'll have a stupid grin on your face like I did. I do think that the auxiliary percussion could benefit from some tuning and balancing - some of the higher hits are quite pronounced, and cut through the mix in a way that distracts attention from the main melody and vocals. Fiddling with tuning may help them gel with the other instrumentation better. That scream from 2:05-2:15 is incredible! As is the high note at 2:54. Quite what the bongos are doing in there at 2:05 is anyone's guess. I get where the naysayers are coming from with this one, I do - but I present a song I feel represents a similar vocal selection in its first 20 seconds as this one: Love Fist - Dangerous Bastard I'd prefer if the voice crack at 0:18 was less... obvious, and those bongos used much more sparingly and adroitly, but I don't see this one being held back as-is. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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