OCR04698 - *YES* NieR "Rain in Winter" *RESUB*

[Liontamer]

Previous Decision

COLLABORATORS [FEAT.]:

Zack Parrish = *Live Acoustic Guitar, *Fretless Bass VSTi, *Glass Harp / Armonica VSTi, *Cello VSTi *Children's Choir VSTi & *Pipe Organ VSTi

Emunator = *Additional Pads & SFX for Mid-Section / End-Section / Outro, *Mentoring & Mixing Guidance

#

Festive greetings, J's!

Originally done for The Coop & Dyne's *17th* "An OverClocked Christmas" unofficial album, this is my chill take on NieR's Snow in Summer, with quite a few very appreciated, last minute collab additions courtesy of Zack. Although this will be my third year contributing to the album, (the previous years done with tracks from Snowboard Kids, Secret of Mana, and Mega Man X3--respectively), I have been wanting to remix this song since the first time I participated back in 2021. It had taken years to finally conceptualize it in full, (and giving up on a couple of not-so-great mash-up ideas for it,) but I am happy it has finally come to fruition in 2023, where now I can feel confident in creating and mixing its transformative content and executing the plan to do it with.

And, honestly, I am glad I finally put my mind to the fire and kindled the courage to open up the source MIDI and take a look, otherwise I would have never known just how thoroughly complex and harmonically-driven the source was.

With source usage, it is throughout the whole song, start to finish, with no repeats. I said to myself..."why break and recreate something that is already beautiful?" Instead, I elected to *add* to it, rather than *subtract*, starting by changing the instrumentation entirely to fit a whole different genre bend. This arrangement is akin to the relaxing vibes in my remixes for "A Wish" (Secret of Mana) and "Big Snowman" (Snowboard Kids), yet it is not as somber as "The Frozen City" (MMX3). I am not a huge Christmas-y person, however, I love many things that are "Christmas-spirited / adjacent", as well as a few fairly traditional ones that make an exception (e.g. "Carol of the Bells"). I tried to encapsulate those aspects of Christmas songs I do really enjoy in this mix, such as: lots of strings, pretty bells & chimes, choirs, plenty of percussive elements, pipe organs, ritzy piano, jazzy bass, etc--but, employ them with a bit of a twist; a nice undertone of Lo-Fi / Hip-Hop, indicative of the snappy percussion and plucky bass, as well as the low flute / whistle-y, whiny / minimoog saw synth that has an East-West Coast/90s flair (i.e. that "oooo-weee-ooo" you hear in a lot of Oldskool Rap tracks, such as "Big Poppa" by Notorious B.I.G.)

There...wasn't really much to my creative approach this time around, as my focus was mainly considering what I could do to showcase a different spin and feeling from its original incarnation without "breaking the mold". An...iteration that had equal parts the feelings of hope and happiness, and solemnity and loneliness that could be invoked during the (generally) joyous holiday season, against the original's more depressive emotion, that filters up and crescendo into the feeling of almost...oppression--religious fervor turned into militaristic battle music midway through the song. I never got to play NieR (although I own the original and Automata), so this is me taking the raw emotion I felt from the source alone, without context or ties to the game, and changing it into something very..."me"...I suppose. I just know the first time I listened to the source, the choir pulled me in and the drumbeat lulled me to stay till the end, and I wanted to simply mimic that ebb and flow in a "me" manner. This one is probably one of my more "conservative" remixes, but I'm a firm believer in not all songs being created equal nor should get the same treatment, and I did not feel this one needed to be bombastic or as over-the-top with the sheer insanity some of my other pieces of work came to be. It's subtle, it's Xmas-inspired, and my hope is that this one can make it in for the holidays. I know I had only submitted one other Christmas-related track, and sadly MMX3 / Blizzard Buffalo was rejected and did not make the cut. I will return to it shortly, however I hope people enjoy this one, and this one has a chance. 

Have a Merry Christmas and thank you for the time and consideration to give this track due judgement. I pray for the best. 

<**ADDENDUM: ...Third time's the charm...? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ♥>

[Liontamer]

The piano line from 1:06-1:49 was there before but is pushed up and sounds rigid, slightly behind the beat, and isn't mixed as the primary foreground element, so it's not working here, and is further exposed by being this prominent. I talked with VQ about it a little, and she said "It's louder because the previous comment was it was a bit too buried in the mix and they wanted it and the cello in front, followed by the NieR harmony, then the rest... It's not a different sound, it's the same Yamaha grand VST but paired with a jazz organ for note sustain... ?"

I would say be careful to not let any ill-fitting clutter and busyness be too prominent. Don't be afraid to just melodically quote something in a straightforward way instead; I'm sure your sound design will personalize it well. You'll think I believe you don't have musical talent when I've heard a lot of good ideas from you and have said so in writeups; you don't have an ear for melodiousness, so when you dip into original composition ideas, the writing can be very disorganized and lacking melodiousness.

For example, the belltones from 2:10-2:31, which are slightly different in writing than v2 that was previously judged) aren't melodious and sound randomized. It'll seem like I'm holding my nose when I'm saying this: the concept could work, just not like this... no need for this random stuff. Keep it focused and coveying some sort of direction.

SFX added from 3:34-3:35 sounds out of place like a cuckoo sound; didn't fit the overall aesthetic you set up. That said, other more subtle added or adjusted parts were working.

This still needs more refinement, IMO, you may want to let Zack or Emu take a stab at a melodic direction for this with some new part-writing (i.e. something to supplement what's already there) as well as revisit the bells from 2:10-2:31. I'm more permissive on mixing, but the point still stands that there were sections where there's no overt direction (partly due to the mixing, partly due to the writing). While you don't need to start anything over, you're also not going to get it there with minor mixing adjustments, again, IMO. Still very good potential, so let's be careful to not just try to add extra frosting on top of the cake. The sound design's pretty solid, but there's still some dodgy writing and imbalanced mixing getting in the way.

NO (resubmit)

EDIT (1/28/24): Listened again, but my reservations stand. I don't even like that I'm a NO, because I want more NieR, and this is like 70% of the way there, IMO. When VQ stays on the melodic straight and narrow, it's more cohesive; once she strays, she has the tendency to start writing off-key or clashing stuff. If that can be sorted, count me in!

Edited January 29 by Liontamer
added updated comments

[prophetik music]

last time i voted on this, i NOd it due to volumization and soundscape issues as well as some coherence stuff.

i think overall most of my concerns have been addressed. there's a bunch of stuff i would really not do (the bass hammer-on at 0:50, the bell arps being so overtoney and lacking fundamental at 1:50 for a minute or so, the overall lessening of focus on the melodic material vs. other elements), but my concerns around volumization and soundscape were addressed in a satisfactory manner. there's some really neat ideas in here that are much more evident now that i can actually hear them, and the overall song structure is better for it as well.

 

 

YES

[MindWanderer]

I gave the first version of this a CONDITIONAL, so I'm optimistic about this one.

It's still not perfect. The bass tuning sounds better, I think, but it suffers from thin and vanilla sound design; it sounds like an ancient FM MIDI among all these ethereal instruments. The piano in 1:06-1:49 is both too quiet and has too much of its timbre flattened out because that section is mid-heavy, and it's a shame because the writing there is great but not sitting in the foreground like it should be. The music box sounds in the end are super, absurdly quiet for some reason; they're not really necessary, but it's weird that they be there at all when they're nearly inaudble.

Like a lot of VQ's stuff, there's some really creative, intricate, enjoyable writing that's let down by  weaker production and sound design. But while there's stuff that could definitely stand to be improved, I don't think any of it is dealbreaking.

YES

[XPRTNovice]

My feedback on the original was incorporated here! I have no further comments. Nice adjustments. I think I just personally hate jingle bells. 

 

YES

[Hemophiliac]

Arrangement and concept is the star here. The source is well represented and there is plenty of personalization throughout.  You've done a great job creating a soundscape that is wholly unique to the source.

I have two major issues with this that I want to bring up, one is the production/mixing and the other is the part writing in one section.

As Liontamer had pointed out previously, the high bells during 2:10-2:31 don't feel like they are supporting the rest of the harmonic context. During the section that immediately proceeds (1:49-2:10) the bells work better here because there's less things going on for the bells to conflict with.  In the earlier section (1:06-1:49) you have piano countermelody parts that support the harmonic context, so you are capable of creating other parts that support and aren't the lead.

Throughout the piece I feel that the lead melody is buried behind other parts, not so much that it's inaudible but it no longer feels like the main focus of the piece. For example (1:07-1:49 low violin or could be viola, panned some right), that seems to be the melody from the source is much quieter then the sleigh bells, hihats, shakers, piano, and other percussive elements. During the next major section (2:11-2:31) synth lead cuts through better then the violin from earlier, this is how you want the earlier lead to sound. It is both louder and sits within the mix in a better spot to allow my ear to immediately recognize that it is the focus. This same volume/focus issue comes back again for the final section (3:36-3:56) in the high violin and (3:57-4:06) in the low violin.  They feel like they are the melodic/lead focus but again are quieter then the other parts.

I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned yet, but from 1:06-4:07 there is a constant barrage of high end frequencies that really get tiring to my ear. The sleigh bells, hihats, shaker, synth bells fill the top end (above 4k Hz) so much that some EQ reduction would do wonders on reducing the brightness.  Not all are playing at the same time, but if one of them drops out another one of the high-end instruments takes it's place. Those highs are so forward in the mix it's hard to appreciate the lovely melody from the source below them.

If you can tame those highs and bring the focus back to the melody more I could get behind this incredible soundscape.  But for now I have to say NO (resubmit).

 

[Chimpazilla]

My issues on this resub are the same as the previous version, there is just too much going on and it is disharmonious.  There are arps on top of arps and a lot of this material is not in the key of the song.  The arps are played by very loud bells with a ton of high end frequency so the disharmony is very prominent.  2:11-2:31 is still very crazy to my ear.

This is a tough situation.  As Hemo succinctly said, the arrangement and concepts are the stars here. This track has so many interesting details and maintains interest all the way through which is amazing.  So many ideas are here, so much attention to detail.  The creativity is off the charts!  But there are two problems, one is that there are too many ideas going at any one time, the arrangement feels overstuffed.  The other problem is, as Larry said, there is a lack of melodiousness.  The disharmonies that exist in this arrangement are numerous and severe, and it is concerning that this is not obvious to the artist.  

I agree with Larry, Zack or Wes could offer help to strip back this arrangement to the parts that work, and add supportive arps or countermelodies (when appropriate, being careful not to overstuff the arrangement) that don't clash with the key of the song.

The volume-balancing and mixing seem to be working well generally.  I'm not sure what happened on the mastering side of things but this file is hitting 2.8db peak.  It at least needs a final limiter to keep it under 0db.

NO

[Emunator]

I'm abstaining from voting on this due to my participation in the track, but in my heart of hearts, I think this would have been a yes - the dealbreaking aspect that seems to have pushed people over the edge - the atonality/disharmony of the bell arpeggio, just didn't bother me in this track as much as it has in many of Queen's other submissions. I outlined my reasoning in my YES vote on the original version of this track, where I was perhaps not as critical as I could have been, but I still stand by that rationale here and would vote YES.

[Flexstyle]

Cliff notes version: this song goes on a journey for sure. Dig the groove. Not hearing the dissonance that some people are complaining about tbh. Mixed pretty well, bass thumps and beats bump. Source comes across well. I'm never bored throughout. No reason to hold it back IMO. 

 

YES

[Gario]

This is a pretty mellow arrangement, compared to what I'm used to what I've heard from Vodou Queen. Maybe we should encourage more of this, 'cause it's quite a nice listen. Easy to follow the source, and the overall style is quite different and cool. I hear the complaints about the highs being dominant in this arrangement, and while I agree they should be toned down they also do give the overall arrangement an ethereal feel throughout. Some of the instruments (I'm thinking the strings in the beginning) are dry compared to the rest of the texture so some light reverb would help the overall track blend, but these are relatively minor concerns.

If the track is clipping, sure, bring the master down a notch and it'd be better for it, but to my ears there's nothing that brings this below the bar. Plenty of smaller issues here and there, but I'm not going to let perfect be the enemy of good. Nice work!

YES

[Rexy]

I haven't heard any of the previous versions, so I'm just going to say it as I hear it. Remember, Angelique, *we mean nothing personal*—we really want to see you grow as an artist. Quite frankly, this source sounds like something I would've tried to make an arrangement of much earlier on in my life, so I empathize with you.

Anyway, here are my thoughts with the judge hat on. The biggest positive is that the sound design is impeccable. You have a great selection of bells, percussion, and acoustic-sounding instrumentation to develop a haunting atmosphere. I could not detect any mixing issues that may have been in the previous two versions - though Zack's guitar at 2:31 sounds like it got overprocessed to the point of clipping. It's not a dealbreaker considering how much space there is in that part of the track, plus it could equally pass as vinyl crackling because of it - but it's a good idea to keep getting used to your gear, get some good monitoring headphones too if you don't have any yet, and understand more about how those dots connect.

As for the arrangement, it made perfect sense to turn it into a mellow jam and twist it around with a more electronic feel, so I do not need to worry about source quota. Though, like with Larry and Chimpazilla, the lack of melodic and harmonic focus has given me mixed feelings. I understand you wanted to go for a more additive arrangement, but it's best to think about what chord you would like to hit at any time and ride your elements around it. At the very least, you did mark your stamp on the source, which is indeed what we're looking for - and believe it or not, I've seen other dissonant works get posted on the site based on the strength of arrangement, so this should be no different.

Despite the elephant in the room with the dissonance, this is barely postable as is - so fuck it, we ball. But Angelique, the best advice I can give you is to read all your feedback, stop doubting yourself, and use those words to build your skills up. You've got a lot of support, so use it well. :-)

YES (borderline)